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guddy69
21 Feb 2007, 09:35 AM
Chelsea’s critics guilty of switching from the historical to the hysterical

Martin Samuel

Whenever Liverpool play Chelsea, the fans sing a song about history. Chelsea have none, apparently, whereas Liverpool, with five European Cups and 18 league titles, have an abundance.

This is not strictly true, of course. What Liverpool’s 23 trophies represent is achievement; history is just stuff that has happened, good, bad or indifferent. Every football club has history, even Milton Keynes Dons, and certainly one such as Chelsea that dates back more than a century.

Chelsea won a European trophy two years earlier than Liverpool and beat them to the League Cup by 16 years. They have produced an England captain, John Terry, while postwar England captains from Anfield have either been bought in, such as Emlyn Hughes and Kevin Keegan, or in the case of home-grown internationals such as Phil Thompson and Steven Gerrard, have received the accolade only temporarily as a result of injury. Also, Chelsea fought a battle for their very existence when developers wanted to turn their Stamford Bridge home into luxury flats.

There is history in London SW6 all right; what Chelsea lack in comparison with Liverpool is sustained success. Liverpool claimed the league title more than half a century before Chelsea and subsequently won it more than any other club. They lead 5-0 on European Cup victories, 7-3 on FA Cup wins. Within the record books, Liverpool’s status as the heavyweight champions of English football is undisputed; why worry?

Simple. Chelsea make the Kop hot under its collar because their recent success represents a challenge to the established order. The defence mechanism is to crow about history as if Roman Abramovich and José Mourinho cannot be part of it; as if Kenny Dalglish was not also an expensive import to an already successful club, much the same as Andriy Shevchenko; as if it would be possible for a business to use anything but its bank balance to meet the challenge laid down by Liverpool and their G14 allies, and the privilege and self-interest they represent.

The same emotion came to the fore when Lucas Neill chose West Ham United over Liverpool. It was as if the new money had no right to be at the same table. Yes, maybe Neill did go south for the wrong reasons — certainly West Ham have got about as much from their spending spree as Robert P. McCulloch, the American entrepreneur who in April 1968 paid $2.46 million for London Bridge, supposedly in the belief he was getting the one with the towers. Yet either way there was an awfully arrogant presumption on Merseyside, where it was treated as heresy that Neill should not respond to a click of the fingers, as if the hierarchy of English football should never be subject to change.

Arsene Wenger was at it, too, this week, denouncing a system that allows Chelsea to thrive with operating losses of £80 million, while pretending the structure of high-end European football is not the root cause of this problem. Those who despise Chelsea invariably fail to answer one basic question: how else are a team meant to break into the cosy club that is the Champions League, and remain there, without spending beyond their means?

There are occasional interlopers, such as Celta Vigo, of Spain, but they do not last without sustained investment. The Champions League is set up selfishly to maintain the needs of a tiny elite — that, fortunately for Wenger, includes Arsenal, despite their limited success in European competition (two trophies, 24 years apart, since entering the Fairs Cup in 1963) — and the only way around that is for an emerging club to plunge into debt in the hope their gamble brings reward. Some try and fail, such as Leeds United; others, such as Chelsea, are insured against financial oblivion by the wealth and ambition of their owner.

The parvenu nature of Chelsea’s arrival makes the G14 cabal resentful and good old-fashioned jealousy does the rest, but to bleat on about fairness or even history misses the point. What is better for football: that Liverpool win a sixth European Cup, or Chelsea win a first? And, if not Chelsea, then who would we like to see at the top table? Blackburn Rovers? Bolton Wanderers? An efficiently run small club, punching pluckily above their weight? Oh, please.

Wenger’s regard for lesser teams was demonstrated on Saturday when Blackburn earned a hard-fought if unappealing draw at the Emirates Stadium in the FA Cup fifth round. Did Wenger congratulate Mark Hughes, the Blackburn manager, that with a fraction of Arsenal’s resources and some of his best players missing, against a team with some of the finest technical footballers in the world, he had conjured a stifling stalemate and reduced Arsenal to a handful of attempts on goal? No, he called for replays to be abolished because they interfered with his Champions League schedule, not to mention Arsenal’s bold and fascinating assault on third place.

If Wenger had his way, Blackburn’s reward for holding firm for 90 minutes away from home would be to play another 30 minutes at Arsenal’s ground and then, if necessary, take penalties before a partisan home crowd. Sounds fair.

Wenger did not suggest that if a single encounter was to decide Cup ties, perhaps a seeding system could operate so that the higher-positioned side on the day of the draw always played away. Nor did he advance the reappraisal of wealth distribution to compensate smaller clubs for loss of earnings, FA Cup revenue clearly being of more importance to those denied the lucrative drip-drip of endless European group games. In fact, Wenger made no attempt to see beyond Arsenal’s point of view at all. Noticeably, he is no advocate of settling Champions League fixtures in such a slapdash manner.

He is not alone in this self-absorption. When pushed, he admitted he would not necessarily practise what he preaches given the same opportunity as Chelsea, conceding that Arsenal would have welcomed Abramovich’s millions, too. When tested, very few pass football’s morality test. The Liverpool supporters who mocked Chelsea’s Russian revolution were not so negatively vocal about the arrival of George Gillett Jr and Tom Hicks, the new American owners, despite some awkward references to franchises and Liverpool Reds at the press conference. Even Manchester United diehards, while still paying lip-service to the antiGlazer movement, have been forced to admit that the impact on the club has been minimal. Same manager, improved squad, better league position, what is not to like?

Yes, it would be lovely if all clubs could be run by the local pork butcher with a lifetime of devotion to the cause and a shrine to some bygone wing half in his office above the shop, but in times when the game makes millionaires in months, not even years, that is not going to happen. History will be written, in part, by gatecrashers from Siberia and if your club are lucky enough to find one that wants to give your best player 100 grand a week, why argue?

So much of the antipathy towards Chelsea is hypocritical anyway. Wenger rightly questioned the connection between Chelsea and PSV Eindhoven, but what of Arsenal’s links to Beveren, the Belgian team? “There is one difference — they do not play in the Champions League,” he said. The follow-up question surely concerned when Wenger had first been aware of his ability to forecast the future.

Right now, it must be said, Beveren show no signs of Champions League potential, lying third from bottom in the Jupiler League. They have, however, competed in the European Cup and Cup Winners’ Cup twice each, the Uefa Cup on four occasions, and reached the Belgian Cup final as recently as 2004.

The cooperation agreement with Arsenal lasted from 2001 to July 1, 2006 and was considered complex enough to warrant investigation by the FA and Fifa. It was alleged that a loan of €1.5 million (about £1.007 million) from Arsenal to a company called Goal had helped to secure Beveren’s financial position, representing a breach of club ownership regulation. Arsenal claimed that this was an interest-free loan that had no impact on club administration and the FA and Fifa absolved all parties.

Less satisfactory was Beveren’s status as a glorified clearing house for the youth academy founded by the former manager, Jean-Marc Guillou, in Abidjan. The squad contained a majority of players from the Ivory Coast (and still does) who take advantage of Belgium’s loose work-permit regulations to find a shop window in Europe.

A recent graduate is the Arsenal right back, Emmanuel Eboué. So while Chelsea’s links with PSV deserve exploration, they have not been alone in requiring the attention of football’s lawmakers. Yet what is this — all of it, positive and negative — if not history? Arsenal’s Ivorian production line, Liverpool’s proposed move from Anfield under the auspices of their new owners, the Russian who transformed Chelsea and English football, almost on a whim. Even the theft of Wimbledon FC by an opportunist from 80 miles north will one day be part of football folklore. While stick-in-the-muds such as the one on this page are still spitting out the words Franchise FC, a new generation of supporters in Milton Keynes will be drawing on our disdain to fuel their identity, in a no-one-likes-us-we-don’t-care kind of way.

No, it is not 18 league titles and five European Cups, but that was never just history anyway. That was genius. And, for the moment at least, Chelsea, Arsenal, MK Dons and the rest are a long way from there
_________________

leftwing
21 Feb 2007, 11:31 AM
Probably the single best, most concise article on the subject I have ever seen. We should all copy it and just post it in response when one of the twits from those other clubs come on whining about our spending. As a history major in college (a long, long time ago) I can appreciate his perspective. It's all where you're coming from that colors what you see. I see us on top for a long, long time, and I really don't care what Pool, ManU and the Arse have to say about it. We're making history.

Dear_Claudio
21 Feb 2007, 11:47 AM
Probably the single best, most concise article on the subject I have ever seen. We should all copy it and just post it in response when one of the twits from those other clubs come on whining about our spending. As a history major in college (a long, long time ago) I can appreciate his perspective. It's all where you're coming from that colors what you see. I see us on top for a long, long time, and I really don't care what Pool, ManU and the Arse have to say about it. We're making history.Can't reply any better than that. I know I will be forwarding this on to U AINT GUT NO HEESTORY!

cooldude
21 Feb 2007, 11:51 AM
yeah, what with our finances moving in the right direction.....those clubs have got a history..we r writing ours right now..

Dear_Claudio
21 Feb 2007, 12:01 PM
Already used the article. Some idiot Liverpool fan banging on about how nothing happened in Algarve and the media loves Chelsea (which I literally laughed out loud at).

yasik19
21 Feb 2007, 04:00 PM
nice read.

fernb8
21 Feb 2007, 05:20 PM
careful

posting facts will really upset the trolls

what will poor teso do now?

Teso Dos Bichos
22 Feb 2007, 06:20 AM
Why should I be bothered about an article that only makes a fleeting mention of my club and in doing so completely ignores what the concerns surrounding Glazer's involvement actually were and still are? That's the main problem with the entire article. The writer wastes too much time bleating on about history in an attempt to defend Chelsea but in doing so ignores the main issues that people have and has missed an opportunity to examine all of the main players in a sensible manner. By that I mean looking at the top four and comparing everything concerned in a neutral manner. I'll leave Arsenal and Liverpool fans to address or correct anything they disagree with in the article. I'm personally not that bothered. Plus the first post is in clear breach of BS rules. ;)

Clan
22 Feb 2007, 04:30 PM
Why should I be bothered about an article that only makes a fleeting mention of my club and in doing so completely ignores what the concerns surrounding Glazer's involvement actually were and still are? That's the main problem with the entire article. The writer wastes too much time bleating on about history in an attempt to defend Chelsea but in doing so ignores the main issues that people have and has missed an opportunity to examine all of the main players in a sensible manner. By that I mean looking at the top four and comparing everything concerned in a neutral manner. I'll leave Arsenal and Liverpool fans to address or correct anything they disagree with in the article. I'm personally not that bothered. Plus the first post is in clear breach of BS rules. ;)

In other words, it's completely correct.

Cannon
22 Feb 2007, 05:46 PM
In other words, it's completely correct.
Ok opinion article with a clear bias (Wenger mus have annoyed him as much as the "history" jibes :D). I love the implication that clubs needs to spend half a billion over a few years in order to compete with Arsenal's spending and break into the CL club. Too funny. Compare the losses you just reported to Wenger's net spending for his entire time at Arsenal and try to back up that nonsense. Somebody doesn't know our transfer record. The attempt to describe the past connection between Beveren and Arsenal is more than a little off as well. Anyone who actually knows the history of the relationship would have to laugh at the attempt to imply that we had any control over that club. Check out the transfer history and Kolo's brother time there for some fairly obvious examples of that club acting against our interests during the period we were accused of having some control over their actions. The investigation was brought on because of a side legal dispute between current and past officials there and was wrapped up quickly when it was clear there was nothing there. Looks like somebody didn't do his research or ignored facts that didn't fit his point. Shocker. :rolleyes:

leftwing
22 Feb 2007, 07:20 PM
Ok opinion article with a clear bias (Wenger mus have annoyed him as much as the "history" jibes :D). I love the implication that clubs needs to spend half a billion over a few years in order to compete with Arsenal's spending and break into the CL club. Too funny. Compare the losses you just reported to Wenger's net spending for his entire time at Arsenal and try to back up that nonsense. Somebody doesn't know our transfer record. The attempt to describe the past connection between Beveren and Arsenal is more than a little off as well. Anyone who actually knows the history of the relationship would have to laugh at the attempt to imply that we had any control over that club. Check out the transfer history and Kolo's brother time there for some fairly obvious examples of that club acting against our interests during the period we were accused of having some control over their actions. The investigation was brought on because of a side legal dispute between current and past officials there and was wrapped up quickly when it was clear there was nothing there. Looks like somebody didn't do his research or ignored facts that didn't fit his point. Shocker. :rolleyes:

So you admit it's all true then?

Clan
23 Feb 2007, 04:48 PM
Ok opinion article with a clear bias (Wenger mus have annoyed him as much as the "history" jibes :D). I love the implication that clubs needs to spend half a billion over a few years in order to compete with Arsenal's spending and break into the CL club. Too funny. Compare the losses you just reported to Wenger's net spending for his entire time at Arsenal and try to back up that nonsense. Somebody doesn't know our transfer record. The attempt to describe the past connection between Beveren and Arsenal is more than a little off as well. Anyone who actually knows the history of the relationship would have to laugh at the attempt to imply that we had any control over that club. Check out the transfer history and Kolo's brother time there for some fairly obvious examples of that club acting against our interests during the period we were accused of having some control over their actions. The investigation was brought on because of a side legal dispute between current and past officials there and was wrapped up quickly when it was clear there was nothing there. Looks like somebody didn't do his research or ignored facts that didn't fit his point. Shocker. :rolleyes:

Actually, the article didn't make mention of Arsenals spending.
Although, I see you too have used the 'net transfer' misleader :)

What the article states, and which is quite true, is..
Arsene Wenger was at it, too, this week, denouncing a system that allows Chelsea to thrive with operating losses of £80 million, while pretending the structure of high-end European football is not the root cause of this problem. Those who despise Chelsea invariably fail to answer one basic question: how else are a team meant to break into the cosy club that is the Champions League, and remain there, without spending beyond their means?

Now, I can't see why you would take issue with this.
We're not talking about how, say Arsenal, have got there.
What the article is talking about, is the here and now.What it would take for somebody to break into the 'top 4', next season.

A question for you.

Do you think if Arsenal didn't have massive income from the champions league to supplememt their income, they could have spent £5,000,000 on a kid from the second division...rising to £12M isn't it?, whilst also spending £8M on Rosicky and £7M on Adebayor.

Teso Dos Bichos
24 Feb 2007, 06:10 AM
What it would take for somebody to break into the 'top 4', next season.

A lasagne ban?

Cannon
24 Feb 2007, 09:19 AM
Actually, the article didn't make mention of Arsenals spending.
Although, I see you too have used the 'net transfer' misleader :)I'd be happy to compare our overall spending, our wage budget and pretty much any other financial measure against both other CL teams and the highest spending teams in the top three leagues that miss out on the CL and the result would still be the same. We've been outspent by plenty of teams that missed the CL and our consistent performance has more to do with sound management, excellent scouting, and Wenger's system of play than any financial advantage during Wenger's time at the club. The claim that you need Chelsea-size spending to break into the "cozy club" is cleary false although it may become the case in the future. It also isn't like Chelsea were some bottom half of the table club before you spent that half billion. You were already a club in the europe spots before the Russian bought you (even if you did lose out early to Viking that year in the UEFA Cup). You already had guys like Terry, Gallas, Lampard, etc before spending all that Russian cash and got into the CL over Liverpool at the end of 02/03 before the Russian came along. Sure you were in serious financial danger and probably wouldn't have stayed there but it certainly suggests that you don't need to spend 500m pounds to get into the "cozy club" as that article claims.
A question for you.
Do you think if Arsenal didn't have massive income from the champions league to supplememt their income, they could have spent £5,000,000 on a kid from the second division...rising to £12M isn't it?, whilst also spending £8M on Rosicky and £7M on Adebayor.Probably not but that isn't really the point since we've generally managed to make enough from selling players to cover much of Wenger's transfer spending. You can spend that much on Theo (although it remains to be seen if that 12m figure ever gets paid. I heard similar a "up to 17m" figure for Reyes too and yet we've only really spent 10.5m on him. We'd actually make money in the trade for Baptista) and Adebayor when you just got 14m for Vieira. Rosicky's purchase is covered by a bunch of smaller sales over 2m for Cygan, nearly that for Quincy, etc. If other clubs got the kind of return on investment that Arsenal often does then over time they'd be able to afford the large purchase without seeing a serious increase in net spending.

In the future, I could see our net spending increasing simply because we can afford it with the increase in gate from the new stadium but that doesn't change the fact that our continued success in the Prem and regular presence in the CL did not take anywhere close to the spending seen at Chelsea. I've found this to be a useful article (http://www.4thegame.com/features/feature/132962/.html)when this issue is raised:
Biggest net spenders on transfer fees in the six seasons up to 2002 were Manchester United (£99million), followed by Leeds (£91m), Chelsea (£84m), Liverpool (£81m) and Tottenham (£53m). Arsenal's net spending was £24million, less than Manchester City's. I think that makes the point.

leftwing
24 Feb 2007, 11:27 AM
I'd be happy to compare our overall spending, our wage budget and pretty much any other financial measure against both other CL teams and the highest spending teams in the top three leagues that miss out on the CL and the result would still be the same. We've been outspent by plenty of teams that missed the CL and our consistent performance has more to do with sound management, excellent scouting, and Wenger's system of play than any financial advantage during Wenger's time at the club. The claim that you need Chelsea-size spending to break into the "cozy club" is cleary false although it may become the case in the future. It also isn't like Chelsea were some bottom half of the table club before you spent that half billion. You were already a club in the europe spots before the Russian bought you (even if you did lose out early to Viking that year in the UEFA Cup). You already had guys like Terry, Gallas, Lampard, etc before spending all that Russian cash and got into the CL over Liverpool at the end of 02/03 before the Russian came along. Sure you were in serious financial danger and probably wouldn't have stayed there but it certainly suggests that you don't need to spend 500m pounds to get into the "cozy club" as that article claims.
Probably not but that isn't really the point since we've generally managed to make enough from selling players to cover much of Wenger's transfer spending. You can spend that much on Theo (although it remains to be seen if that 12m figure ever gets paid. I heard similar a "up to 17m" figure for Reyes too and yet we've only really spent 10.5m on him. We'd actually make money in the trade for Baptista) and Adebayor when you just got 14m for Vieira. Rosicky's purchase is covered by a bunch of smaller sales over 2m for Cygan, nearly that for Quincy, etc. If other clubs got the kind of return on investment that Arsenal often does then over time they'd be able to afford the large purchase without seeing a serious increase in net spending.

In the future, I could see our net spending increasing simply because we can afford it with the increase in gate from the new stadium but that doesn't change the fact that our continued success in the Prem and regular presence in the CL did not take anywhere close to the spending seen at Chelsea. I've found this to be a useful article (http://www.4thegame.com/features/feature/132962/.html)when this issue is raised:
I think that makes the point.

That may make your point, unfortunately you've missed THE point (well, actually, brushed it off) that you have to spend huge to get into the champions league and stay there. It bankrupted Leeds, it was within days of bankrupting us, and no one else has been able to get there since. Net spending is a nice concept to talk about, but of course you don't mention where the assets came from to pick up those players that were sold in the first place. Arsenal is a G14, big money club. You spent big money to get many of the players you sold in the days before Abramovich raised the ante and made it impossible for you to buy the most expensive players. The fact that for a couple years you sold off some players to pay for a new stadium doesn't change that, nor does it change the basic facts set forth in the article that is the genesis of this thread--that the G14 have set up a system that benefits them and perpetuates the have/have not system in football and they don't like it when an interloper comes along and messes with said system without their permission. Whether Abramovich HAD to spend what he spent isn't the issue, the fact is whether it was 200 million, 500 million, or a billion, a club has to spend massively to break into the G14 hegemony and then stay there. Chelsea did it, no one else has had the wherewithal to do so up to now, we bear the wrath of Arse, Pool and Manu fans who don't like the fact that we have broken into their little club (and have taken the players they used to get for less money).
Now that Arsenal have money again, I fully expect to see Wenger start spending it. He's done a terrific job the last few years on a slightly reduced budget, but that doesn't mean Arsenal aren't still a big spending club and one that intends to spend more now than ever before. If that isn't the case, why the new stadium? It exists to produce more revenue, get better players, win more trophies. Teams in stadiums half that size with half that revenue can't compete--unless they have an owner who doesn't care about losses.
Like the artcle said, the resentment of Chelsea is resentment of a change in the old order. To be honest, there's slightly less bleating out of the Arse fans about it than from their red brethren to the north, but its still there. I understand where you're coming from--I just don't care. Our owner did exactly what was needed to break into "the club" and the complaints about it, in the end, amount to nothing more than sour grapes. We knew this all along, I was just happy to see an article that laid it out clearly.

Miguel Alvarez
24 Feb 2007, 01:10 PM
That may make your point, unfortunately you've missed THE point (well, actually, brushed it off) that you have to spend huge to get into the champions league and stay there. It bankrupted Leeds, it was within days of bankrupting us, and no one else has been able to get there since. Net spending is a nice concept to talk about, but of course you don't mention where the assets came from to pick up those players that were sold in the first place. Arsenal is a G14, big money club. You spent big money to get many of the players you sold in the days before Abramovich raised the ante and made it impossible for you to buy the most expensive players. The fact that for a couple years you sold off some players to pay for a new stadium doesn't change that, nor does it change the basic facts set forth in the article that is the genesis of this thread--that the G14 have set up a system that benefits them and perpetuates the have/have not system in football and they don't like it when an interloper comes along and messes with said system without their permission. Whether Abramovich HAD to spend what he spent isn't the issue, the fact is whether it was 200 million, 500 million, or a billion, a club has to spend massively to break into the G14 hegemony and then stay there. Chelsea did it, no one else has had the wherewithal to do so up to now, we bear the wrath of Arse, Pool and Manu fans who don't like the fact that we have broken into their little club (and have taken the players they used to get for less money).
Now that Arsenal have money again, I fully expect to see Wenger start spending it. He's done a terrific job the last few years on a slightly reduced budget, but that doesn't mean Arsenal aren't still a big spending club and one that intends to spend more now than ever before. If that isn't the case, why the new stadium? It exists to produce more revenue, get better players, win more trophies. Teams in stadiums half that size with half that revenue can't compete--unless they have an owner who doesn't care about losses.
Like the artcle said, the resentment of Chelsea is resentment of a change in the old order. To be honest, there's slightly less bleating out of the Arse fans about it than from their red brethren to the north, but its still there. I understand where you're coming from--I just don't care. Our owner did exactly what was needed to break into "the club" and the complaints about it, in the end, amount to nothing more than sour grapes. We knew this all along, I was just happy to see an article that laid it out clearly.


Amen

Clan
24 Feb 2007, 06:53 PM
I'd be happy to compare our overall spending, our wage budget and pretty much any other financial measure against both other CL teams and the highest spending teams in the top three leagues that miss out on the CL and the result would still be the same. We've been outspent by plenty of teams that missed the CL and our consistent performance has more to do with sound management, excellent scouting, and Wenger's system of play than any financial advantage during Wenger's time at the club. The claim that you need Chelsea-size spending to break into the "cozy club" is cleary false although it may become the case in the future. It also isn't like Chelsea were some bottom half of the table club before you spent that half billion. You were already a club in the europe spots before the Russian bought you (even if you did lose out early to Viking that year in the UEFA Cup). You already had guys like Terry, Gallas, Lampard, etc before spending all that Russian cash and got into the CL over Liverpool at the end of 02/03 before the Russian came along. Sure you were in serious financial danger and probably wouldn't have stayed there but it certainly suggests that you don't need to spend 500m pounds to get into the "cozy club" as that article claims.

The thing of it is though, and you've (almost) admitted it yourself, is that the article is talking about the circumstances of today and, more so, the future.
As a matter of fact, I believe that Arsenal are a great example of the case in point.
How Arsenal got to where they are now, wasn't done with 'massive' spending, but, as last season proved, what with securing a last gasp entry into the champions league qualifying (last remaining) spot, you are being caught up with by other teams.
Also, it isn't about securing it for one season of glory like Leeds, it's about spending to remain there - as even Wenger demonstrated by spending on Rosicky and Adebayor.Hell, even that money spent on those two players is several seasons worth for most of the prem.
It wasn't spent to get Arsenal into the 'cosy club', it was spent to keep them there.

That being the case, that it is several seasons worth of transfer funds for others - where are they supposed to get the money, today, to break into the CL next season?And return again the season after that?
It can't be done.
Besides, when a club from the outside of the top 4 have a decent player, he's soon gobbled up by them.



Probably not but that isn't really the point since we've generally managed to make enough from selling players to cover much of Wenger's transfer spending. You can spend that much on Theo (although it remains to be seen if that 12m figure ever gets paid. I heard similar a "up to 17m" figure for Reyes too and yet we've only really spent 10.5m on him. We'd actually make money in the trade for Baptista) and Adebayor when you just got 14m for Vieira. Rosicky's purchase is covered by a bunch of smaller sales over 2m for Cygan, nearly that for Quincy, etc. If other clubs got the kind of return on investment that Arsenal often does then over time they'd be able to afford the large purchase without seeing a serious increase in net spending.

The spending on Theo, Rosicky and Adebayor, was done well in advance of the sale of Vieira though - who, if reports were to be believed, Wenger would have liked to have kept.

[QUOTE=Cannon
In the future, I could see our net spending increasing simply because we can afford it with the increase in gate from the new stadium but that doesn't change the fact that our continued success in the Prem and regular presence in the CL did not take anywhere close to the spending seen at Chelsea. I've found this to be a useful article (http://www.4thegame.com/features/feature/132962/.html)when this issue is raised:
I think that makes the point.[/QUOTE]

You are correct, it did not.

However, the crux of the article is that it will require massive spending right now, and in the future, one of the reasons being that nice new stadium you mention.

I think you've taken it as a slight on Arsenal - although I don't see why - but, it's merely being quite candid about what it will take for somebody else to break the top 4 as they exist today.

leg_breaker
24 Feb 2007, 09:21 PM
I love the implication that clubs needs to spend half a billion over a few years in order to compete with Arsenal's spending and break into the CL club. Too funny. Compare the losses you just reported to Wenger's net spending for his entire time at Arsenal and try to back up that nonsense.

Taken a look at your own turnover and wage bills recently? Arsenal are one of the most expensively-run clubs in the world. Why else do they have to charge a grand for a season ticket?

leg_breaker
24 Feb 2007, 09:28 PM
I'd be happy to compare our overall spending, our wage budget and pretty much any other financial measure against both other CL teams and the highest spending teams in the top three leagues that miss out on the CL and the result would still be the same. We've been outspent by plenty of teams that missed the CL

Last year's teams who missed out were Spurs and Blackburn, this season possibly Bolton, Portsmouth and Reading. You're saying that Arsenal's wage bill and total spending is smaller than those teams? The Arsenal team with the highest ticket revenue in the world, and amongst the top TV and sponsorship earners? Of course...

and our consistent performance has more to do with sound management, excellent scouting, and Wenger's system of play than any financial advantage during Wenger's time at the club.

How much do you think all those scouts and managers cost? I'd say that only Newcastle outside of the top four could afford to hold onto a player like Henry or Fabregas.

Sure you were in serious financial danger and probably wouldn't have stayed there but it certainly suggests that you don't need to spend 500m pounds to get into the "cozy club" as that article claims.

You do if you want to stay there. Of course you might quality now and again, but if you can't keep up financially with the top clubs you'll lose all your players, won't be able to buy anymore and will slip back into mid-table. Just look at Leeds, or Chelsea if Abramovich hadn't arrived.

blanc
25 Feb 2007, 08:18 AM
Chelsea have history? Sure.

Chelsea have lots of trophies? Where have you guys been hiding them all? :p