Create the ultimate Super Team

[kingkong1]

Your solid data is pointless though, as most of the results came from before Maldini had begun his career. Using a poll from 1983 to illustrate that Nilton Santos was better than Maldini is laughable and pointless.Not really.

Maldini's mentions in the polls above come in the wake of his World Football magazine Best Player of the Year Award received in 1994, and even after that the 40-years-older Nilton Santos received 2 votes, one in 1998 from FIFA, and another one in 2004 by A Tarde newspaper. Check it:
______________________________________________________________
FIFA World Cup All-Time Team (1993/94) Yashin - Djalma Santos, Bobby Moore, Beckenbauer, Breitner - Cruyff, Bobby Charlton, Platini - Garrincha, Pelé, Puskas

Planete Foot Magazine (1996) Yashin - Baresi, Beckenbauer, Paolo Maldini - Cruyff, Platini, Van Basten - Gerd Müller, Pelé, Di Stefano, Maradona

100 Magnifici (Venerdì Magazine) (1997)[/url] Yashin , Beckenbauer, Paolo Maldini - Cruyff, Meazza, Schiaffino - Garrincha, Pelé, Di Stefano, Maradona

FIFA Century Selection (1998) Yashin - Carlos Alberto, Bobby Moore, Beckenbauer, Nílton Santos - Cruyff, Platini - Garrincha, Pelé, Di Stefano, Maradona

Voetbal International (1999)[/url] Yashin - Carlos Alberto, Beckenbauer, Rijkaard, Paolo Maldini - Di Stefano, Cruyff, Maradona - Garrincha, Pelé, Gento

FIFA World Cup Dream Team (2002)[/url] Yashin - Paolo Maldini, Beckenbauer, Roberto Carlos - Maradona, Zidane, Cruyff, Platini - Roberto Baggio, Pelé, Romário

A Tarde Newspaper (2004) Yashin - Djalma Santos, Bobby Moore, Beckenbauer, Nílton Santos - Cruyff, Maradona - Garrincha, Di Stefano, Pelé, Puskas
______________________________________________________________

From 1994 on, as you can see, there were 7 polls - 3 of them European (French, Dutch, Italian), 3 of them organized by 'neutral' FIFA, and only 1 Southamerican (Brz).

Not surprisingly, Maldini, not only for being a great player, but ALSO for being European, and for being much 'more recent', was obviously priviledged in them, receiving 4 votes: 3 votes (from the Europeans) + 1 (from FIFA)

And Nilton Santos, in spite of being Brazilian & having retired 44 years ago, STILL received 2 votes: 1 vote (frm the Brazilians) + 1 (from FIFA).

If we declare 'nule' the 3 European votes for Maldini and the 1 SA vote for NS, there is nothing left but giving the advantadge to NS for longevity.

'Laugh' at that now...if you can! :D

[comme]

Not really.

Maldini's mentions in the polls above come in the wake of his World Football magazine Best Player of the Year Award received in 1994, and even after that the 40-years-older Nilton Santos received 2 votes, one in 1998 from FIFA, and another one in 2004 by A Tarde newspaper. Check it:
______________________________________________________________
FIFA World Cup All-Time Team (1993/94) Yashin - Djalma Santos, Bobby Moore, Beckenbauer, Breitner - Cruyff, Bobby Charlton, Platini - Garrincha, Pelé, Puskas

Planete Foot Magazine (1996) Yashin - Baresi, Beckenbauer, Paolo Maldini - Cruyff, Platini, Van Basten - Gerd Müller, Pelé, Di Stefano, Maradona

100 Magnifici (Venerdì Magazine) (1997)[/url] Yashin , Beckenbauer, Paolo Maldini - Cruyff, Meazza, Schiaffino - Garrincha, Pelé, Di Stefano, Maradona

FIFA Century Selection (1998) Yashin - Carlos Alberto, Bobby Moore, Beckenbauer, Nílton Santos - Cruyff, Platini - Garrincha, Pelé, Di Stefano, Maradona

Voetbal International (1999)[/url] Yashin - Carlos Alberto, Beckenbauer, Rijkaard, Paolo Maldini - Di Stefano, Cruyff, Maradona - Garrincha, Pelé, Gento

FIFA World Cup Dream Team (2002)[/url] Yashin - Paolo Maldini, Beckenbauer, Roberto Carlos - Maradona, Zidane, Cruyff, Platini - Roberto Baggio, Pelé, Romário

A Tarde Newspaper (2004) Yashin - Djalma Santos, Bobby Moore, Beckenbauer, Nílton Santos - Cruyff, Maradona - Garrincha, Di Stefano, Pelé, Puskas
______________________________________________________________

From 1994 on, as you can see, there were 7 polls - 3 of them European (French, Dutch, Italian), 3 of them organized by 'neutral' FIFA, and only 1 Southamerican (Brz).

Not surprisingly, Maldini, for being European, and for being much 'more recent', was obviously priviledged in them, receiving 4 votes: 3 votes (from the Europeans) + 1 (from FIFA)

And Nilton Santos, in spite of being Brazilian & having retired 44 years ago, STILL received 2 votes: 1 vote (frm the Brazilians) + 1 (from FIFA).

If we declare 'nule' the 3 European votes for Maldini and the 1 SA vote for NS, there is nothing left but giving the advantadge to NS for longevity.

'Laugh' at that now...if you can! :D

So what you're saying is that since Maldini has been eligible for voting (ie actually started his career) he has been selected twice as often as Nilton Santos?

In that case I'm in full agreement.

[kingkong1]

So what you're saying is that since Maldini has been eligible for voting (ie actually started his career) he has been selected twice as often as Nilton Santos?

In that case I'm in full agreement.'Twice as often' since 1994 by 'three times more' Euro polls than SA's! :cool: ...

Ain't that kinda suspicious?...

Your 'best' friend is the one from who lent you money last year, and not your 'dear' but almost forgotten childhood pals, I'm very sure about that! :p ...

[comme]

'Twice as often' since 1994 by 'three times more' Euro polls than SA's! :cool: ...

Ain't that kinda suspicious?...

Your 'best' friend is the one from who lent you money last year, and not your 'dear' but almost forgotten childhood pals, I'm very sure about that! :p ...

So then why is Yashin automatically selected, or Moore, or Meazza or Schiaffino?

If anything it is harder to get into one of these teams as a modern player, as the older names are set in stone. The fact that Maldini is the first to break the hegemony since Maradona rather suggests his quality.

[kingkong1]

So then why is Yashin automatically selected, or Moore, or Meazza or Schiaffino?Automatically, only Yashin.

Moore, Meazza, Schiaffino only exceptionally.

Yashin, The Black Spider, like Pelé, practically doesn't have competitors in his position (perhaps only him and The King are absolute unanimities in any world poll).

Besides, Moore and Meazza are European: they were great players and will always be remembered in Euro pools.If anything it is harder to get into one of these teams as a modern player, as the older names are set in stone. The fact that Maldini is the first to break the hegemony since Maradona rather suggests his qualityI never intended to deny Maldini's quality. He entered the 'gallery' mainly by his own merits, and not solely because he was European or 'more recent', and I always let that quite clear in my posts ('being European' and 'more recent' just explains why he got more votes than NS in a predominantly European universe of contemporary polls - 3 Euro, 3 FIFA, 1 SA - since 1994) .

As for older names being set on stone, that's very relative: that only happens if they deserve.

Maldini will only have proved that his name is truly 'set in stone' within 40 years, as it happened with Djalma & Nilton Santos ;) ...

[sidis]

How would your preferred All-Time XI look with Nilton Santos at LB and with two DMs?

because i think, righ backs could attack better than defensive-midfielders, d-mid are better making long pass and covering the side backs attacks.

in 3-5-2 you need a more ofensive minded d-mids, and need to make the ball run the entire field, because you attack with 2 wing backs at same time (in 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 only 1 back attack each time.)

[kingkong1]

because i think, righ backs could attack better than defensive-midfielders, d-mid are better making long pass and covering the side backs attacks.

in 3-5-2 you need a more ofensive minded d-mids, and need to make the ball run the entire field, because you attack with 2 wing backs at same time (in 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 only 1 back attack each time.)Sidis,

Let's be frank (and ill-educated)...

Don't bother 'discuss' with those guys.

They'll never acept that they (as countries, and as individuals) play way less ball.

It's enough to put Maldini and Nilton Santos in a balance.

Maldini will go to the stratosphere.

Nilton Santos was TWICE World Champion (1958/1962). Where did Maldini go?...

Won nothing...

He's good looking, kkkkkkk...

[dor02]

because i think, righ backs could attack better than defensive-midfielders, d-mid are better making long pass and covering the side backs attacks.

in 3-5-2 you need a more ofensive minded d-mids, and need to make the ball run the entire field, because you attack with 2 wing backs at same time (in 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 only 1 back attack each time.)I was asking which players would you put in you 4-4-2 team. If Nilton Santos would be you LB, who would be the other 10 players? I'm just curious.

Don't bother 'discuss' with those guys.I shouldn't discuss with you. You do have an uncontrollable bias so even if a person backs their claims with evidence, you will always give a Brazilian the benefit of the doubt. Your previous posts back this. At least sidis has the right attitude.

They'll never acept that they (as countries, and as individuals) play way less ball.Brazilians are playing less ball these days, especially at NT level. The Brazilian NT doesn't embody the play the ball philosophy as much as they used. Brazil under Dunga relies too much on hard work, scoring from set-pieces and big men like Julio Baptista and Juan. Coaches like Dunga and Parreira and to a lesser extent Scolari, don't represent jogo bonito.

You should watch the Serie A these days. You would surprised to see that hardly anybody plays catenaccio now. There are matches that do end with a 3-1, 2-2 or 4-0 scoreline, not just 1-0 or 0-0.

Last Saturday's/Sunday's results as a sample:

http://www.channel4.com/sport/football_italia/aweek28.html

During the week, there were only two 1-0 win and two 0-0 draws. :eek:

Nilton Santos was TWICE World Champion (1958/1962). Where did Maldini go?...

Won nothing......Winning the World Cup is a team achievement. Individuals can decide one moment or play but not a whole match or tornament. The fact that Maldini didn't win the World Cup isn't due to his mistakes (in 2002, there was more to it). Cannavaro, Collovati, Foni and Materazzi have World Cup medals yet that doesn't make them better than Maldini. Cabrini is my all-time fave LB and won a World Cup but realistically, I can't rate him better than Maldini. Maybe you could because he was much better offensively than Maldini and I know you Brazilians like that. ;)

As for winning nothing, I wouldn't classify 7 scudetti, 4 CL titles and 3 Toyota Cups as nothing. That's more than Nilton Santos winning 3 Carioca titles, 2 Rio-São Paulo tornaments and no Copa Libertadores titles.

The only way you can claim that Nilton was better than Maldini is that he played in two World Cup-winning teams.

[sidis]

I was asking which players would you put in you 4-4-2 team. If Nilton Santos would be you LB, who would be the other 10 players? I'm just curious.


i put in last posts, a 3-5-2 and a 4-3-3 formations.

my 4-4-2

-------------Pelé------Garrincha-
---------------------------------
--Cruyff-----Maradona-----------
---------------------------------
--------------------Falcão-------
-------Beckenbauer--------------
N. Santos--------------CA Torres
------Gamarra---Matthäus-------
------------yashin---------------


4-5-1

-------------Pelé----------------
---------------------------------
-Cruyff-----Maradona-----Zico---
---------------------------------
--------------------Falcão-------
-------Beckenbauer--------------
N. Santos--------------CA Torres
------Gamarra---Matthäus-------
------------yashin---------------


if we want include more nations, maybe neeskens in falcão place as a second d-mid.

[dor02]

You could swap Beckenbauer and Matthäus yet you would still have some fine sides. Beckenbauer is more solid defensively than Matthäus his more elegant dribbling in midfield would compliment Falcao better than Matthäus's more forceful style.

[bosterosoy]

It's enough to put Maldini and Nilton Santos in a balance.

Maldini will go to the stratosphere.

Nilton Santos was TWICE World Champion (1958/1962). Where did Maldini go?...

Won nothing...

He's good looking, kkkkkkk...

LMFAO

ok so now because he won 2 World cups he is better?? That's a team accomplishment. Or are you now going to say that Brasil won those 2 world cups single handedly because of Nilton Santos?? it wasn't because they also had Pele, Garrincha etc etc

And Maldini didnt win anything is a huge joke
7 Serie A titles
1 Coppa Italia
4 Supercoppa di Italia
5 Champions Leagues
5 European SuperCups
2 Copa Intercontinentals
1 Clubs World Cup

Not to mention Maldini's longevity. Age 35 he wins Serie A defender of the year beating out Nesta and Canavarro in their prime. Age 38 he's UEFA Club defender of the year

[kingkong1]

LMFAO

ok so now because he won 2 World cups he is better?? That's a team accomplishment. Or are you now going to say that Brasil won those 2 world cups single handedly because of Nilton Santos?? it wasn't because they also had Pele, Garrincha etc etc

And Maldini didnt win anything is a huge joke
7 Serie A titles
1 Coppa Italia
4 Supercoppa di Italia
5 Champions Leagues
5 European SuperCups
2 Copa Intercontinentals
1 Clubs World Cup

Not to mention Maldini's longevity. Age 35 he wins Serie A defender of the year beating out Nesta and Canavarro in their prime. Age 38 he's UEFA Club defender of the yearAhh, you Argentinians and you maradonian 'singlehandedly' mania.

As if ANY player in the world had already done that before!!! Not Maradona in 86, not even Garrincha in 62, or Romário in 94...

And please don't you tell me in his lifetime Maldini either won anything 'singlehandedly' (man, what a big and difficult word you found to 'defend' that poor little guy Maradona)...

But every time you're confronted with FINAL, FACTUAL and DECISIVE arguments (TITLES, GOALS, OFFICIAL POLLS RESULTS, AWARDS), Europeans come with the pretensious and empty blahblahblah that titles, goals, awards are worth nothing, that the Italian League was the 'best in the world' in all times, and the CL is the 'true' World Cup (all extremely arguable, patriotic and subjective ideas), and Argentinians like you with that ridiculous history 'para buey dormir' of Maradona winning a Cup...'singlehandedly'!

(Unless you are speaking about THAT 'single hand' of his! :p ...)

Besides, I didn't even need to ridiculously cite the innumerable titles NS won in SA and World competitions NT and clubwise: the 2 World Cups are more than enough.

I'll remind you also that NS had as aversaries the best forwards of the world in all times (including Pelé's Santos': he faced several times a year Dorval, Pelé, Coutinho and Pepe, the most formidable club attack of all times) and was contemporary of the golden age of offensive football in Brazil and the world.

And who Maldini faced as an attacking force? Simply the most mediochre generation of forwards of all history of the game! His task, compared to NS, was extremely easy, man!!!

Longevity? NS actively played to the age of 42, man! You know nothing about Brz football, hermano!...

And your CLs! What are they close to a World Cup title?! They are as much worth as a Libertadores, period!...

A World Cup is World Cup. The rest is the rest.

If you're better, prove it: show your aces, man!!!...

[comme]

What I find sad is that you are a 60 year old man, who is trolling this forum like a child. Why do you bother? Have some dignity.

[bosterosoy]

Ahh, you Argentinians and you maradonian 'singlehandedly' mania.

As if ANY player in the world had already done that before!!! Not Maradona in 86, not even Garrincha in 62, or Romário in 94...

And please don't you tell me in his lifetime Maldini either won anything 'singlehandedly' (man, what a big and difficult word you found to 'defend' that poor little guy Maradona)...

you sir are an idiot. Nobody said anything about Maradona so I this makes absolutely no sense. What does Maradona '86, Romario '94 and Garrincha '62 have anything to do with Nilton Santos v. Maldini is beyond me.

Also, at the time of Maradona, only Garrincha had done something similar because Romario came AFTER and I won't get into the comparisons because that wasn't what we were talking about. (And that Maradona's was better than Romario's)

But every time you're confronted with FINAL, FACTUAL and DECISIVE arguments (TITLES, GOALS, OFFICIAL POLLS RESULTS, AWARDS), Europeans come with the pretensious and empty blahblahblah that titles, goals, awards are worth nothing, that the Italian League was the 'best in the world' in all times, and the CL is the 'true' World Cup (all extremely arguable, patriotic and subjective ideas), and Argentinians like you with that ridiculous history 'para buey dormir' of Maradona winning a Cup...'singlehandedly'!

so which is it? Am I crazy Argentinian or a pompous European :rolleyes:
I'll ask you once again
WHAT THE F*CK DOES YOU TRYING TO SH*T ON MARADONA HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH NILTON V MALDINI???

Besides, I didn't even need to ridiculously cite the innumerable titles NS won in SA and World competitions NT and clubwise: the 2 World Cups are more than enough.

Yes the 2 World Cups. So that is now the barrier for what makes a player great. I guess then that no player outside of Brasil, Argentina, Germany, Italy or France are good players. Platini must have sucked as well since he never won a World Cup. Same for George Best, Puskas, Di Stefano, not to mention Johann Cruijf and Eusebio. they all suck because they never won a World Cup :rolleyes:

I'll remind you also that NS had as aversaries the best forwards of the world in all times (including Pelé's Santos': he faced several times a year Dorval, Pelé, Coutinho and Pepe, the most formidable club attack of all times) and was contemporary of the golden age of offensive football in Brazil and the world.

And who Maldini faced as an attacking force? Simply the most mediochre generation of forwards of all history of the game! His task, compared to NS, was extremely easy, man!!!

ok but that is balanced out by the fact that Maldini's side would give up less goals and yes Maldini never played any good forwards. Ronaldo was a joke, Romario pff, Maradona, Platini, Totti, Batistuta etc etc

Longevity? NS actively played to the age of 42, man! You know nothing about Brz football, hermano!...

And your CLs! What are they close to a World Cup title?! They are as much worth as a Libertadores, period!...

A World Cup is World Cup. The rest is the rest.

If you're better, prove it: show your aces, man!!!...

Ok, I agree a CL = Copa Libertadores which Nilton Santos never won. And if I used your logic of selecting the opinions of experts that made their Top XI before Maldini came on the scene then I'll use the same logic and say that NS never won a Libertadores even if most of his career was before that tournament was established and thus Maldini is better

[Teso Dos Bichos]

We got it the first time. Brazil is the best at everything. No-one else compares. Anyone who questions Brazilian dominance must be a biased European. Yada yada...

[sidis]

i think at club level maldini career is so good than nilton santos, or better.

obviously milan doesn't had to face pele's santos to win anything.

and maldini face ronaldo, crespo, henry, ibra and many others top strikers.

[Tribune]

One moment, please :

1. Let's not drag this towards Maradona, shall we ? This has nothing to do with Diego.

But every time you're confronted with FINAL, FACTUAL and DECISIVE arguments (TITLES, GOALS, OFFICIAL POLLS RESULTS, AWARDS), Europeans come with the pretensious and empty blahblahblah that titles, goals, awards are worth nothing, that the Italian League was the 'best in the world' in all times, and the CL is the 'true' World Cup (all extremely arguable, patriotic and subjective ideas), and Argentinians like you with that ridiculous history 'para buey dormir' of Maradona winning a Cup...'singlehandedly'!

This is confusing.

Besides, I didn't even need to ridiculously cite the innumerable titles NS won in SA and World competitions NT and clubwise: the 2 World Cups are more than enough.

You cannot count titles as an argument in case for defenders. A left back like Nilton Santos or Paulo Maldini is less of a difference maker in a trophy run than a number 10 or number 9, or even a winger, who are the position having the greatest impact in a team's success.
You can be a uber-defender and win nothing if your attack is substandard (Bobby Moore at club level, Baresi prior to 1987).

I'll remind you also that NS had as aversaries the best forwards of the world in all times (including Pelé's Santos': he faced several times a year Dorval, Pelé, Coutinho and Pepe, the most formidable club attack of all times) and was contemporary of the golden age of offensive football in Brazil and the world.

And who Maldini faced as an attacking force? Simply the most mediochre generation of forwards of all history of the game! His task, compared to NS, was extremely easy, man!!!

You are underrating the strength of the offensive players Maldini came against Maradona, Careca, Baggio, Romario, Stoichkov, Ronaldo, Henry, Ronaldinho, Figo, Rivaldo are no less impressive than Pele, Canhoteiro, Zizinho, Julinho, Puskas, Czibor, Finney, Eusebio, Gento, Di Stefano, Kubala, Greaves. They can hold their own very well against the old-timers.
Second, Maldini has less WC because Roberto Baggio is no Pele or Garrincha. Or are you arguing otherwise ?

Longevity? NS actively played to the age of 42, man! You know nothing about Brz football, hermano!...

Nilton Santos was born in 1927. I recall that he retired soon after the WC 1962, when he was around 37.
On the other hand, the lack of a Libertadores title cannot be held against Nilton Santos. The competition kicked off in 1960, when Nilton Santos was nearing the end of his career.

Finally, don't start acting like JumpinJackFlash, will you ?

Personally, I don't see what's the fuss is all about though. Besides that both were world class, it's more difficult to compare two defenders when they both play in two dreadnought teams, for the very simple reasons that most of the times it's the opposition who has to defend against their teams and not the other way around. Unlike a forward or midfielder, who always have to do their job, regardless of the situation, defenders have the option of "turning off" if the opposite attack is impotent.

[kingkong1]

What I find sad is that you are a 60 year old man, who is trolling this forum like a child. Why do you bother? Have some dignity.Wipe up your ass before talking to me.

A football forum is not property of 9-year-oldies like you who spend all the time calling his fellows names (you ugly, you old, you dumbie).

As for being 60-year-old I should remind you that in a football forum the youngest one is who 'lived more' football and has more useful information to convey to its members.

In short, is who in terms of football has 'more life'.

And as you are deprived of 'football life', in a football forum you - the real troller - are no more than a flat tire :cool: ...

[Cris 09]

As for being 60-year-old I should remind you that in a football forum the youngest one is who 'lived more' football and has more useful information to convey to its members.



1st. Your information is not in any way useful to us members as much as it is useless...

2nd. I don't think you are 60, but 16...probably with no life other than trolling forums and internet porn.

[comme]

Wipe up your ass before talking to me.

A football forum is not property of 9-year-oldies like you who spend all the time calling his fellows names (you ugly, you old, you dumbie).

As for being 60-year-old I should remind you that in a football forum the youngest one is who 'lived more' football and has more useful information to convey to its members.

In short, is who in terms of football has 'more life'.

And as you are deprived of 'football life', in a football forum you - the real troller - are no more than a flat tire :cool: ...

Is this the come-back of a 60 year old man? Really?

Why try and belittle Maldini, when any real fan that his seen both players in their prime could recognise them both as legends.