Telling your AR's where to go?

[intechpc]

OK so this thread is a result of too much time spent thinking about refereeing and not being out on the pitch doing it (damn Wisconsin winters). How many of you in your pregame brief tell your A/R's which side of the field they should run. Now I'm not talking about telling them to run left backs or right backs, but rather putting one on the team side and the other on the spectator side.

I seem to switch depending on who my AR's are and what I know of the teams playing. Sometimes I'll let the AR's decide between themselves who'll take which side of the pitch. However there are times when I will ask a specific AR to take one side or the other. It usually happens if I know the AR's and one is more experienced than the other. Especially if I've got rough teams or coaches, I'll send the more experienced ref to the team side.

Now I can't imagine doing this with AR's that I didn't know from previous experience as it would seem to me that I'd come off as condescending. Just curious what you folks do.

[NHRef]

If I know the ARs and the coaches and which bench the coaches will be on, or the reputation of fans, then I will put the most senior or bullet proof AR on the side I expect the most trouble from.

Other than that I let them decide, some have a preference which side they want, so if I have no previous knowledge to help decide, I ask them.

Well with the exception of state cup when the assignor tells us to keep AR1 with coaches and AR2 with fans because he planned it that way. Well he knows the refs and coaches better so I go with his opinion.

[CCSC_STRIKER20]

It really depends. As a referee I love criticism and praise cause it reminds me that games do matter. In younger games (4,5,6th grade and middle school games) I put the more "bulletproof" AR on the parents side because the parents are usually more of a nuisance when their kids are younger. The whole "my little johnny got hurt it should be a foul" thing. However in older games (jv, varsity, higher up club games) I would put the more "bulletproof" AR on the coaches side, by then the coaches are more inteligent and have more things to question and say towards the officials. The games also mean more. The parents by then realize that all their yelling will do nothing, so they usually turn their voices to their team instead of the officials.

[Emmet Kipengwe]

It really depends. As a referee I love criticism and praise cause it reminds me that games do matter. In younger games (4,5,6th grade and middle school games) I put the more "bulletproof" AR on the parents side because the parents are usually more of a nuisance when their kids are younger. The whole "my little johnny got hurt it should be a foul" thing. However in older games (jv, varsity, higher up club games) I would put the more "bulletproof" AR on the coaches side, by then the coaches are more inteligent and have more things to question and say towards the officials. The games also mean more. The parents by then realize that all their yelling will do nothing, so they usually turn their voices to their team instead of the officials.
This sounds like the most logical way of doing it.
IIRC, technically, whoever is designated AR1 is supposed to be on the coaches' side. They are also supposed to move to CR, if something were to incapacitate the CR.

[bluedevils]

Now I can't imagine doing this [delegating each AR to a particular side] with AR's that I didn't know from previous experience as it would seem to me that I'd come off as condescending. Just curious what you folks do.

It shouldn't be perceived as condescending. This is something that usually is up to the referee, so ARs should take no offense to being placed on one touch line or the other.

Some organizations or assignors specify that the assigned AR1 must take the bench side, but some referees ignore this and do what they want anyway.

[USSF REF]

Case in point...

I was assigned to referee a local D3 college match. I was the youngest referee on the crew and the other guys were, not old, but you might call them "old timers". Anyway let's call them A & B. A was a guy I knew could get along with everyone and he was well liked, but had a little less experience than B. B was a guy known for his quick draw magraw approach to delivering red and yellow justice, many refs put him on their "do not assign me with him" list, and he is also known for being hard to get along with and has had a few issues dealing with coaches and players in terms of how he shows mutual respect. Still, he was the most experienced college referee out there that day.

As the new guy I deffered to them and said "is there any side you want more than another?" B elected to take the bench side (also happened to be the same side as the grand stands.)

I didn't pick up on any problems at the time. But a few days later I received an e-mail from the commissioner of the conference with several complaints about B and one about myself. The losing coach complained B had laughed in his face once, he was having "private" discussions with the opposing coach", and refusing to allow substitution requests when they should have been permitted.

Now I don't know if there was any truth to these allegations, and B denied all of this. He is also not known for being wholly unprofessional to the point of breaking the rules by refusing a team the right to substitute. In fact, he is known as the guy who adheres to every word in the book.

But upon speaking about this with a National referee who knew the two AR's he asked me... "What is the biggest lesson you can take from this" and I threw out a couple of ideas, but it wasn't until I said "I wouldn't put B on the bench side again" that he said I had given the correct answer.

The truth of it is as the Referee you are responsible for the field and your crew. That's why when you know certain personalities will clash, you should look to prevent trouble and if that means picking where each AR goes, then so be it. As a general rule since then I pick where each AR goes - except in tournaments where this is a rotation (so one guy doesn't have to look into the sun more than once per shift.)

[NJ Ref]

USSF I certainly agree with your logic. However, logic doesn’t always prevail. If an assignor assigns me as AR1, than I am AR1. If he/she assigns me as AR2, than I am AR2. The assignor is the one that takes on the responsibility of putting people in the “right” position. If you are anywhere else then where you’ve been assigned, there is a problem.

In this area of the country (central NJ), you are told were you will be officiating (college and youth soccer, (high school uses the dual system)).

I wouldn’t want to be in the unassigned position if a problem arises. If I was assigned to AR2 and took on the position of AR1 (or visa versa), and now an issue was raised because I was in the AR1 position, you know the assignor would be eating some s***. I also believe that Rochester’s college assignor (one of them anyway), is Alex and I know he wouldn’t be jumping for joy if you flipped positions and there was a problem.

[USSF REF]

USSF I certainly agree with your logic. However, logic doesn’t always prevail. If an assignor assigns me as AR1, than I am AR1. If he/she assigns me as AR2, than I am AR2. The assignor is the one that takes on the responsibility of putting people in the “right” position. If you are anywhere else then where you’ve been assigned, there is a problem.

In this area of the country (central NJ), you are told were you will be officiating (college and youth soccer, (high school uses the dual system)).

I wouldn’t want to be in the unassigned position if a problem arises. If I was assigned to AR2 and took on the position of AR1 (or visa versa), and now an issue was raised because I was in the AR1 position, you know the assignor would be eating some s***. I also believe that Rochester’s college assignor (one of them anyway), is Alex and I know he wouldn’t be jumping for joy if you flipped positions and there was a problem.

Thats interesting. Incidentally, this was not an Alex game. He handles the ECAC stuff. This was an Empire 8 conference game assigned by a guy within our local unit.

That raises an interesting question of "position". Taken literally we loosely define AR1 as the AR who stands on the bench side and AR2 as the AR who is on the opposite side. This however is mentioned no where in any proceedure manuals or law books that I am aware of. It's one of those unwritten understanding.

It is also assumed that AR1 is the more experienced official who will take over for the Referee should he go down.

But really, shouldn't this be the responsibility of the Referee and within their discretion to control the crew and the surroundings of the game? In the USSF the Referee can go so far as to dismiss the AR for failing to assist the Referee - so it makes sense he can decide what touchline they patrol.

In NCAA it is less clear. Still, the point you make is valid and some assignors get peeved if you don't put whoever where the assignment sheet implies that they should be. The real lesson to the referee's is to know your assignor and what they will be comfortable with in regards to the referee's authority to flip flop the AR's on the pitch.

In my game I talked about above, the AR's ended up on the sides which agreed with the assignment. But the unit president and others I talked about the situation with suggested that I should have switched them anyway.

So I guess the moral of the story is - you should know your assignor before you do anything drastic... like putting an AR on one side over another - as drastic as something like that can be :p

[Englishref]

Usually here, the senior AR will take the benches, and the junior AR the other side. That's certainly the case at Football League and PL level, and applies at most senior football. If the referee is one who likes to swap his ARs over at HT, then the SAR will take the benches second half.

[Gary V]

In our youth leagues we usually have teams set up on opposite sides of the field. Also our AR positions aren't AR1 and AR2, the assignor simply appoints 2 AR's, the first one listed is the first one who's availability and ability matched the game.

I often let the AR that arrived first choose which side of the field she wants. If I know a particular team or coach can be problemsome, I'll assign the AR I feel is best suited to be on that side. Sometimes in the rec leagues one of the AR's is known by one of the teams, and in that case I'll assign him to the other side.

[USSF REF]

Usually here, the senior AR will take the benches, and the junior AR the other side. That's certainly the case at Football League and PL level, and applies at most senior football. If the referee is one who likes to swap his ARs over at HT, then the SAR will take the benches second half.

And I think that this is pretty much the same thing here in the USA. Except for the most part - I've never heard of AR's switching sides at all.

Just I'm not 100% sure that it has got to be that way, thats all. Either its up to the Referee or the Assignor. I suppose we should defer to the assignor, but I sort of feel like the Referee should be allowed to pick whomever he is most comfortable with on whatever line he wants. If it makes the referee more comfortable, then there shouldn't be a problem.

[intechpc]

My experience has been similar to Gary V's in that I don't typically get AR1 and AR2 assignments but rather just 2 AR's. USSF I have heard of referee's switching their AR's at halftime, infact it was even mentioned in our clinic. I've always chosen to stay away from that unless there's an issue. There's a certain level of fairness to having the teams attack on the side of both AR's. The only time I'd switch them at half was if I notice a problem between the AR and the people on his/her sideline. At that point I may ask them to change sides at halftime.

BTW, I have also heard and seen refs that have their AR's switch which half they run at half time (i.e. going from left backs to right backs). To me this just gives a bad appearance and introduces the same fairness issues as above.

[CCSC_STRIKER20]

The assignor may assign AR1 and AR2, but we never follow that logic. The CR just picks the right person for the right job, or asks for volunteers.

[refmike]

I have heard of ARs switching at the halftime to avoid a problem coach or parent or even to avoid a muddy area. Just make sure that they stay on the same half of the field so when the teams switch ends, they get a different AR. Of course this means the ref must run the opposite diagonal, which is another problem.

[Wreave]

If I have a preference - due to knowing the ARs and/or coaches/teams, I'll send them to a side based on my preference. Most of the time, I don't have a preference and allow the more senior of the two ARs to have first pick.

As the CR, it's my job to provide the best game I can. If I have information that will help me to provide that service better, and I don't act on it, I'm not doing my job.

[gosellit]

Almost all of my assignments specify AR1 and AR2. Mostly go with that unless there is a good reason to change. I will notify the assignor as well. The reason for the change is info the assignor may want to know for future assignments.

[njref]

At the youth level, assignors are virtually throwing bodies into spots and are not thinking about who should do what sideline. At best they are trying to balance the crews. So giving deference to the assignor's designations is silly. Furthermore, the assignor isn't going to be at the game and therefore will not be able to take into account "local conditions," such as whether one team's coaches or spectators seem to be crazed, how many spectators there are, etc.

So I would say no need to "defer" to the assignor, at least for low level games.

[gosellit]

At the youth level, assignors are virtually throwing bodies into spots and are not thinking about who should do what sideline. At best they are trying to balance the crews. So giving deference to the assignor's designations is silly. Furthermore, the assignor isn't going to be at the game and therefore will not be able to take into account "local conditions," such as whether one team's coaches or spectators seem to be crazed, how many spectators there are, etc.

So I would say no need to "defer" to the assignor, at least for low level games.

I am currently a certified assignor, although I do not assign anything at this time. (I just liked having ALL the boxes checked off.) I do however attend assignor in-services and receive communications from my SAC. In my area at least, I see assignors really trying to do their job correctly. The assignors that I see making the most progress are the one assigning youth leagues. The adult and classic assignors have always done a pretty good job.

Like I said, unless YOU have a good reason to change the assignment (and that is what you are doing) leave it that way. The assignor may actually have made that choice for a reason.

[LoewenBoy]

Wow...and here I am thinking we should have a thread titled "Telling loud parents and coaches where to go". :D

[LoewenBoy]

At the youth level, assignors are virtually throwing bodies into spots and are not thinking about who should do what sideline.
In my area we have a 38% annual attrition rate. Not just new refs either. So I would agree that they are throwing bodies at games...but....they do try to give "problem" teams/coaches/games the best officials they can. The biggest problem I have seen is that, because of egos, you normally cannot put three experienced refs on the same two games on a Wednesday night...someone will feel slighted.:rolleyes: