Phrase "My Ball" vs "John's Ball"

[dncm]

I have heard that using the generic phrase "My Ball" is actually illegal and can be construed as unsportsmanlike - instead a player has to put a name against the phrase, ie "John's Ball" or "Kate's Ball".

Is this correct? And if so, could someone expand on it and show where it states that in the LOTG?

Thanks in advance.

[Stinky Shinguards]

I have heard that using the generic phrase "My Ball" is actually illegal and can be construed as unsportsmanlike - instead a player has to put a name against the phrase, ie "John's Ball" or "Kate's Ball".

Is this correct? And if so, could someone expand on it and show where it states that in the LOTG?

Thanks in advance.

I ran into this when I lived and played in Canada in 1997 and 1998. I don't know if it was a Canadian thing or FIFA was cracking down on this at the time. Not only was it considered unsporting behavior and given a caution but if memory serves me right, it also resulted in a IFK.

[Wahoo]

I ran into this when I lived and played in Canada in 1997 and 1998. I don't know if it was a Canadian thing or FIFA was cracking down on this at the time. Not only was it considered unsporting behavior and given a caution but if memory serves me right, it also resulted in a IFK.

It was not a Canadian thing.
When I was in High School in Georgia in the late 80s and into the 90s we ran into this rule.

We couldn't say "Mine" or "My ball".
Instead we had to say "I go" or "I'm on" - as if it made a difference. The claim at the time was that saying "Mine" or "My ball" was tricking the other team somehow and/or you were claiming something that might not be true.

It was one of the dumber decisions I remember - but wasn't sure if it was still being called that way in places.

[AndyMead]

Half the joy of American sports is exactly that sort of shenanigans. About once per season, at the A Ball level in Durham the fans behind the first base dugout successfully confused the first baseman and catcher into dropping a foul pop-up. It's all part of the fun.

[Wahoo]

Half the joy of American sports is exactly that sort of shenanigans. About once per season, at the A Ball level in Durham the fans behind the first base dugout successfully confused the first baseman and catcher into dropping a foul pop-up. It's all part of the fun.

Well that is in fun.... and are shenanigans.

But calling "My ball" or "Mine" in soccer isn't.
It's telling your team that you are going after the ball.
There is no significant difference between calling "My ball" and "I go"
There is no significant difference between calling "Mine" and "Johnny's ball"

If a player backs off because they are confused when a player from the other team calls off his own teammates, then you aren't paying attention - but most importantly you'll tend back off regardless of what's called. It's one of those rules that I feel was created by people who didn't really play the game.

[NGV]

Half the joy of American sports is exactly that sort of shenanigans. About once per season, at the A Ball level in Durham the fans behind the first base dugout successfully confused the first baseman and catcher into dropping a foul pop-up. It's all part of the fun.
It might be fun for fans, but allowing players to do that kind of thing in soccer would clearly harm the game.

Yelling "man on" at an opposing player who's receiving the ball in open space is obviously unsporting behavior. "My ball" seems like more of a gray area, since it might or might not be deliberate deception.

[NGV]

There is no significant difference between calling "My ball" and "I go"
There is no significant difference between calling "Mine" and "Johnny's ball"

There's no significant difference between the first two, so the rule you described is dumb.

But there is a difference between "mine" and "Johnny's" - the opponent knows which team Johnny is on, so no deception is possible (assuming that you actually are Johnny).

[Wahoo]

There's no significant difference between the first two, so the rule you described is dumb.

But there is a difference between "mine" and "Johnny's" - the opponent knows which team Johnny is on, so no deception is possible (assuming that you actually are Johnny).

I think that's the real belief behind the rule, but with all respect... people know voices too. When I was playing, I generally if there was a teammate or not in the area.

You only call out like this if there are some of your teammates in the area. There is no reason to call if you are the only one on your team in proximity of the ball. In such a situation, the players in the area "should" also know who or what is in the area. Basically if I'm the only one on blue and there are 2 reds in the area... I'm not calling out anything, and if I hear "mine" I know that one of the players on red is calling off the other - and whether he calls "Mine", "I go", "Johnny's ball", or "Bibbity Bobbity Boo" is really unimportant.

What is more important is what you touch on in your other post.
Yelling "man on" when an opponent receives the ball in space, or "time" when they are actually underpressure, or (worst of all) "leave it" so you can move in is definitely USB.

Anything one team calls out should only be addressed to players on his/her own team. Any call/shout that is intended to deceive an opponent must be dealt with appropriately - it's cheating in my book.

So maybe that's where some of my thought comes from... they created a rule whereby certain words were taboo regardless of intent/situation.
And yes, I was in a high school game where one person was cautioned for saying "mine" in a situation where he called off a teammate and they were the only 2 people within 10 yards of the ball.

[AndyMead]

And frankly, I consider the odd "mine" to be less of a distraction to the beautiful game than all the crap that goes on with the ball whenever the referee blows the whistle.

I'd trade those two rules in a heartbeat. So an odd player misrecognizes a voice and turns over the ball every handful of games. In return, we'd lose a boatload of time wasting and poor sportsmanship.

[USSF REF]

http://www.spiderjay.com/myspace/cox.gif

Oh Dear God... Not, ANOTHER discussion like this one Cheryl!

[Gary V]

"My ball" seems like more of a gray area, since it might or might not be deliberate deception.
And once the ref has made that distinction, the decision has been made whether it is misconduct or not. Easy, right?

Yelling, "Johnny's ball!" so loudly into the ear of an opponent that he jumps 3 feet into the air is much more unsporting than saying, "Mine" when there is no deception.

Question for EnglishRef - Do you still have the concept of "Verbal Obstruction" over there, allowing an IFK to be assessed without a caution?

[NGV]

What is more important is what you touch on in your other post.
Yelling "man on" when an opponent receives the ball in space, or "time" when they are actually underpressure, or (worst of all) "leave it" so you can move in is definitely USB.
Or a defender saying "drop" while trailing an opposing ball carrier, or an attacker yelling "keeper" while the keeper is still on his line... the possibilities are endless.

So maybe that's where some of my thought comes from... they created a rule whereby certain words were taboo regardless of intent/situation. And yes, I was in a high school game where one person was cautioned for saying "mine" in a situation where he called off a teammate and they were the only 2 people within 10 yards of the ball.

Right, it's best not to make hard-and-fast rules that force the ref to ignore common sense, as in your example. On the other hand, if a player calls out "mine" while closer to an opponent than to any teammate, deception is a possibility. Calling for the ball with your name eliminates any need to make a subjective decision about intent. As an informal guideline for players, it doesn't seem to be a bad idea.

[dncm]

Thanks all - but I am still not 100% clear.

Is it an actual rule or not? I cannot find a specific reference in the LOTG.

[Jeff L]

This has been going on for many many years in England, where it is considered an "unwritten rule" that if someone says, "My Ball" (without using a name) then an IDFK is given. The LEGAL standing of it comes within the definition of "seeking to gain an advantage". Many a time I have not penalised "my ball" when clearly there is not an opponent in the immediate vacinity or having a chance in hell in getting the ball. This is usually greeted with appeals or shouts/screams etc. to which I usually respond by saying, "show me in the rules where it says you can't say "My Ball" and I'll give you £1m. If you can't find it YOU give me £1m !! " This usually desists further conversation! :) Is "MY" any different from "JOHN" is there happens to be a few John's on the field? It all comes down to "seeking to gain an advantage". "JOHN" could be seeking to gain an advantage if one knows that there is a "JOHN" in the opposition. If an opponent stops his play because "My Ball" was used then I'll give it, but generally it's used by defenders with no attackers nearby. No advantage gained, no call.

[CCSC_STRIKER20]

I, as a referee, think this is a ridiculous rule. If players are getting burned by their opponents because of this then that's stupid as well. Because as a player I knew my opponents and my teammates voices. Also, when we played up in Canada one time, our center midfielder got a yellow card for this because they said he did it too often. It's a hard habit to break if you always yell "mine" or "I go".

[USSF REF]

Are we all lacking in confidence this much? I'm serious... When you referee a game do you sit there disecting every offense without considering common sense or the context of what has happened when deciding to punish a foul?

There is no law against this specific action, however using tricks or verbal commands to distract the opponent unfairly should be considered unsporting behavior. Why? Because it's unsportsmanlike.

Now lets say there are two players from the same team and an opponent in the vacinity, and one player from Red tells his teammate "I got it" or "I go" or "mine" and the player's teammate leaves the ball - I think that this is probably OK. I think that because even though the action could have distracted the opponent one of the red players had a legitamate reason to call for the ball and communicate this with his teammate.

Next, let's say there is a Red player and a Blue player and the ball is coming in towards the blue player who doesn't know the red player is behind him. The red player says "leave it" or "mine" and the blue player now dummies the ball or just leaves it and the red player now takes possession - in a case like this, you have unsporting behavior in my opinion because there was no legitimate reason to yell out "leave it" except to try and prevent the opponent playing the ball so you can benefit by their inaction. In that case it's clear the intent is to gain an unfair advantage against the opponent and within that context you can issue a caution.

Remember during a game any number of the situations we discuss here can happen in a million different variations. You can't apply a single standard to every situation blindly. To be a good referee you have to read the context of every situation and trust all of your soccer experience when applying the laws of the game to come up with a fair but legal solution to the problem at hand.

[dncm]

There is no law against this specific action, however using tricks or verbal commands to distract the opponent unfairly should be considered unsporting behavior. Why? Because it's unsportsmanlike.

Okay, now we are getting somewhere.

So let me confirm the procedures:
Player is deemed to have used a verbal command to distract the opponent. Blow whistle immediately, YC for player and IFK for opposing team?

[Funkfoot]

I never saw this in the LOTG, but some folks seem to think it's a rule. Maybe it's been put in place in some youth leagues?? I applaud the notion of using common sense.

I had a U-12 rec game last season: Last game of the season, one team is a man down (makeup game and not enough players showed up) and getting slaughtered. Best player on the winning team gets the ball against the worst player on the losing team, who has been getting burned all game. This time, instead of going for the ball, the defender yells "DIE!!" at the top of his lungs. No, I didn't pull out the yellow card. I did tell him it was a yellow card offense, I knew he was joking, but don't do it again. I figured the real unsporting behavior was the jerk coach who was continuing to play a man up because "there's no reason to penalize my players just because theirs didn't show up." :rolleyes:

[USSF REF]

Okay, now we are getting somewhere.

So let me confirm the procedures:
Player is deemed to have used a verbal command to distract the opponent. Blow whistle immediately, YC for player and IFK for opposing team?

Yes, but ONLY if after using good judgment as it relates to the context of that particular situation, you determined that the player was guilty of unsporting behavior. You have to read the situation and determine if the player had a legitimate reason to call for the ball. If it was merely to distract of confuse the opponent then you stop play, issue the caution, and restart with an IFK from the place the infringement occurred. If on the other hand the player had a good reason to call for the ball, I think you let the game continue as everything was within the bounds of the law.

[NGV]

I, as a referee, think this is a ridiculous rule. If players are getting burned by their opponents because of this then that's stupid as well. Because as a player I knew my opponents and my teammates voices.
I think the general rule against verbal deception is 100% necessary. It's not reasonable to expect players to stop and think about whose voice they just heard before making a decision; at higher levels, a tenth of a second of hesitation can decide a game. Plus, voices don't necessarily sound all that distinctive when they're screaming a one syllable word.

The only issue comes in cases where the intent to deceive may not be obvious.