Location of the restart for offside

[Bill C]

ATR 11.13 Location of the restart for offside: The restart is where the offside player was when the ball was played. Not the second to last defender. Most of the time, these are close enough to being the same thing that it doesn't matter. But...

As an AR, when someone was "way offside", and you were properly positioned with the 2LD, after you signal for offside, have you been lowering your flag, running to the point of the offside person, and pointing for the restart?

I don't think I've ever seen anyone do this. Is this the correct procedure, or do you move to the position of the offside attacker before first raising the flag? In any event, it penalizes the defending team by moving the ball deeper into their territory for the restart rather than at the point of their defensive position, which doesn't seem to be in the spirit of the game.

[refmike]

As you say, most of the time the difference between the offside point and the 2ld is slight and can be ignored. If the difference is large, stay with the 2ld with the flag up to get the referee to stop play. When he whistles the stoppage, run to the offside position and give the second signal (near, mid, far side). Note that this is the same if the attacker has run a distance to get to the ball and the offside position is not where he is when the flag goes up. Again, anywhere near is OK (unless you are being assessed).

[Wahoo]

ATR 11.13 Location of the restart for offside: The restart is where the offside player was when the ball was played. Not the second to last defender. Most of the time, these are close enough to being the same thing that it doesn't matter. But...

As an AR, when someone was "way offside", and you were properly positioned with the 2LD, after you signal for offside, have you been lowering your flag, running to the point of the offside person, and pointing for the restart?

I don't think I've ever seen anyone do this. Is this the correct procedure, or do you move to the position of the offside attacker before first raising the flag? In any event, it penalizes the defending team by moving the ball deeper into their territory for the restart rather than at the point of their defensive position, which doesn't seem to be in the spirit of the game.

Yes that is the proper restart.
It is not penalizing the defending team because:
- it's the location of the offense
- you are giving them the ball and a free kick.

Restarts are done at the point of the infraction (in general - yes there are exceptions) and in the case of offside, the infraction occurs where the offending player is located when the ball is played.

[Bill C]

Yes that is the proper restart.
It is not penalizing the defending team because:
- it's the location of the offense
But does this ATR make sense? Since the precise location of the restart is not defined in the LOTG, which says the restart takes place from the place where the infringement occurred, the ATR could just as easily define the location of the offense as the position of the 2LD. IMO, the rationale for doing this is strong.
- The defense gets the restart at the point of their deepest defensive position, not a deeper point that was under the control of their opponent.
- The AR is naturally positioned at the 2LD so the position of the restart can always be well known.


In reality, this is how it is done now. Visualize this common scenario:The AR is right on his 2LD. The attacker makes a run, his teammate is slow to kick the ball, and he is 5-15 yards offside when the ball is played. The AR crisply stops and pops his flag.
But have you ever seen the AR drop the flag, run the 5-15 yards deeper, and then signal? I've seen many a "wait for participation" force the AR to run back towards midfield, but I've never seen one run deeper. I suspect that on a particularly egregious offense where the offside player is way offside and you ran all the way back for the restart, you would get a lot of flack from players and coaches and lose some game control because it doesn't seem within the spirit of the game to move the ball way back.

Now, most of the time the difference is just a few yards, and the AR doesn't usually bother to move to the point of the attacker. This is a good thing, because otherwise we would be regularly popping our flags, dropping them, moving, and then signalling for position all the time. Not a clean, confident look for the AR. So we regularly do it wrong in the interest of expediency and game control.

All of this could be cleaned up by the ATR just using the point of the 2LD for the restart. Why would doing it this way be a bad thing?

[Chubbywubby]

All of this could be cleaned up by the ATR just using the point of the 2LD for the restart. Why would doing it this way be a bad thing?
Because it would then be in contravention of Law 11. The restart takes place where the infringement occurred (subject to the special provisions of Law 8). Since it's not an infringement to be in offside position, the infringement occurs when the attacker interferes with play or an opponent, or gains an advantage by being in OSP. All of these are defined by the position of the attacker, not the 2LD.

Now, as has been pointed out previously, as a practical matter the restart takes place from a point even with where the AR stops and pops the flag. For an IFK coming out of the defensive third, a difference of 5 or 10 or even 15 yards from the precise location is generally trifling.

[Wahoo]

But have you ever seen the AR drop the flag, run the 5-15 yards deeper, and then signal? I've seen many a "wait for participation" force the AR to run back towards midfield, but I've never seen one run deeper. I suspect that on a particularly egregious offense where the offside player is way offside and you ran all the way back for the restart, you would get a lot of flack from players and coaches and lose some game control because it doesn't seem within the spirit of the game to move the ball way back.


I think other points were addressed in the post above, but I wanted to touch on this.

Players know where the infraction occured and normally will set the ball in the direction of where the attacking player was (as is correct). Also remember that restarts following an offside call are often taken from "the vicinity" of where the infraction occured.

As to the mechanics, No I don' think I've ever seen an AR flag the play, have it called, then run down the line to be perpendicular to the spot of the infringement and then point far/near/center to indicate where the infraction occured.

HOWEVER, I have seen the AR flag the offense, have it called, and if the ball is placed significantly far from where it should be or if the defender asks where it shoudl be placed (was more of a concern during previous guidance and rulings in calling offside), then the AR simply uses a hand signal to imply "back it up a bit", "move it up" or "come closer/further"

Trust me, you won't get a lot of flack if the offending player is WAY behind the defense. Well no more than normal during a game. Heck, I remember the days where it was common to wave off the offside if the pass was going over teh endline and to just let the team take a goalkick.

Again- you aren't "moving the ball way back". You are putting the ball at the point of the offense.

Same as if you see a trip, but just before the trip the player had sent a 40 yard ball to the penalty area and you wait a couple seconds to see if an advantage ensues. If it does not, you still put the ball back where the foul occured.

[Gary V]

But does this ATR make sense? Since the precise location of the restart is not defined in the LOTG, which says the restart takes place from the place where the infringement occurred, the ATR could just as easily define the location of the offense as the position of the 2LD. IMO, the rationale for doing this is strong.
- The defense gets the restart at the point of their deepest defensive position, not a deeper point that was under the control of their opponent.
- The AR is naturally positioned at the 2LD so the position of the restart can always be well known.
But the 2LD didn't commit the offense, the offside player did.

So where would you do the restart if it was two against the keeper, and A1 passes the ball forward to A2? The offside line there is the ball - and the ball certainly didn't commit an offense! "Where the infringment occurred" means just that - where the offside-positioned player was.

[falcon.7]

The LOTG state that it is not an offense to be in an offside position. Therefore, wouldn't placing the ball where the defender was when the ball was kicked penalize him for being in an offside position? The player is not commiting an infringement unless he satisfies the requirement that he be involved in play, interfering, etc... Ideally, the AR raises the flag when this becomes true. Granted, placing the ball closer to the goal gives less of an advantage to the defence, but that shouldn't factor into the decision.

[Hattrix]

The LOTG state that it is not an offense to be in an offside position. Not accurate. The law states that "it is not in itself an offense to be in an offside position." Being penalized for being in such a position only happens if the "active play" or "advantage" clauses are invoked. So the offense is at the position of the attacker.

[Wreave]

Interesting thought. It does make sense that the offense occured at the offside line (2LD), not the actual point of the attacker. It would also make the location of the kick easier to mark for the AR. However, it's probably not worth worrying about.

[ref47]

even the guide is of little help. for offside calls it advises that the ar raises the flag until the ref stops play and then indicates the portion of the field where the restart should take place as, near, middle, far through use of the flag at the appropriate angles. and, as we were with the 2ld or ball when we raised the flag, that could put us a long distance from the actual infraction.

but, as it is an ifk, and the most we would normally see in distance from the correct spot is 10-15 yards, it's not likely a scoring threat so consider it trifling.

[Wahoo]

but, as it is an ifk, and the most we would normally see in distance from the correct spot is 10-15 yards, it's not likely a scoring threat so consider it trifling.
It's not just an IFK - but it's an IFK that will ALWAYS be taken from the teams own defensive side of the field.
Get it close - and get the game going again.

[Bill C]

It's not just an IFK - but it's an IFK that will ALWAYS be taken from the teams own defensive side of the field.
Get it close - and get the game going again.

Actually, the ATR opens up the possibility that a restart for offside could be in the other attacking team's own! I'm on the road and don't have the ATR handy, but the other day I noticed it has some screwy language in there about if a player was off the field at the time the offside was called, then the point of the restart is where the player reentered the field. What if he didn't reenter the field until he was on his own side?!

[gosellit]

Actually, the ATR opens up the possibility that a restart for offside could be in the other attacking team's own! I'm on the road and don't have the ATR handy, but the other day I noticed it has some screwy language in there about if a player was off the field at the time the offside was called, then the point of the restart is where the player reentered the field. What if he didn't reenter the field until he was on his own side?!

Bill, you are correct. From the ATR,
11.13 LOCATION OF THE RESTART FOR OFFSIDE
Offside is punished where the infringement occurred. In other words, the indirect free kick should be
taken from the place where the offside player was when the teammate played the ball. The kick
should not be taken from the place where the second-to-last defender was nor where the player was at
the moment the offside was called. If the player being penalized for offside was legally off the field
when the teammate last played the ball, the restart will be taken from the point on the touch line where
the player re-entered the field.

[refmike]

A player legally off the field is not playing the ball so is not offside (yet).
If he enters the field to play the ball, he becomes offside but since the offside activity began from where he was at the last touch by a teammate, it seems that the point of infraction would be at the touch line where he was then. Can anyone give an example of someone re-entering the field on their own half and being reasonably called for offside?

[Attacking Mid]

I think this statement in the ATR needs to be reconsidered for a couple of reasons:

1) In my mind, the infraction occurs at the time and place when an offside-positioned attacker becomes involved in play. It doesn't occur where the offside line is, nor where the attacker was when his teammate played the ball (unless involvement is immediate).

2) The AR, if doing his job properly, should be running with the play until the offside-positioned attacker becomes involved in play, at which time the flag should be raised. If so, it's entirely possible that the OS attacker could have been just past the halfway line when the ball was played, but be near the goal line when "involvement" occurs. The current reading of the ATR would require the AR to run 50+ yards back upfield to spot the IFK.

AM.

[Gary V]

I think this statement in the ATR needs to be reconsidered for a couple of reasons:

1) In my mind, the infraction occurs at the time and place when an offside-positioned attacker becomes involved in play. It doesn't occur where the offside line is, nor where the attacker was when his teammate played the ball (unless involvement is immediate).

2) The AR, if doing his job properly, should be running with the play until the offside-positioned attacker becomes involved in play, at which time the flag should be raised. If so, it's entirely possible that the OS attacker could have been just past the halfway line when the ball was played, but be near the goal line when "involvement" occurs. The current reading of the ATR would require the AR to run 50+ yards back upfield to spot the IFK.

AM.
Where would you restart if the offside-positioned attacker ran back onto his own end of the field to play the ball?

[uniteo]

Gotta say as a coach I think the restart where the infraction takes place (e.g. where they touch the ball) is a real weakness of the rule right now.

Don't think it's not in my mind that if i ever want to pin the opposition back in their end of the field on way to do that is send a forward down to the opponents goal line and put a long ball down to them. If you can't legally ge tht eball out of your midfield it's certainly a tactical option.

And before you bring up the 'spirit of the game' argument, I'd say I consider it little differet than a defender putting the ball out of play to allow the team to regroup and organize.

[whistleblowerusa]

Actually, the ATR opens up the possibility that a restart for offside could be in the other attacking team's own! I'm on the road and don't have the ATR handy, but the other day I noticed it has some screwy language in there about if a player was off the field at the time the offside was called, then the point of the restart is where the player reentered the field. What if he didn't reenter the field until he was on his own side?!
If you are serious about this question then the answer is this player is not offside. he has entered the field of play from his own half.
Don't read so much into what is written. The Laws are very clear.

[whistleblowerusa]

Because it would then be in contravention of Law 11. The restart takes place where the infringement occurred (subject to the special provisions of Law 8). Since it's not an infringement to be in offside position, the infringement occurs when the attacker interferes with play or an opponent, or gains an advantage by being in OSP. All of these are defined by the position of the attacker, not the 2LD.

Now, as has been pointed out previously, as a practical matter the restart takes place from a point even with where the AR stops and pops the flag. For an IFK coming out of the defensive third, a difference of 5 or 10 or even 15 yards from the precise location is generally trifling.Yes the restart is where the infringement occurred but that infringement spot is not where the attacker was involved or interfered. It is where the AR first judged him to be in an offside position. When this attacker becomes involved in play somehow that is when he is penalized for being in that offside position. That is why the ball is placed where the attacker was first judged to be in an offside position. That is the spot where he infringed the Laws.
You must understand the whole of Law 11 and not just most of it.
There is nothing different written in the ATR. You guys are reading way too much into what is actually there.