MLS in Toronto? [Archive]

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sslazio_1900

03 Aug 2002, 08:10 PM

Some interesting words straight from the MLS commish himself.
"we have a contingent of interested investors joining us from Tulsa, Oklahoma and Cleveland, Ohio. In the past months, we have visited several new potential new MLS markets, including Toronto, Detroit, and San Antonio. We will not be expanding the League in 2003. We are hopeful to expand in 2004, though we have no specific dates in place."

-sounds interesting

for rest of article:

http://www.mlsnet.com/special/as02/as0802sotl.html

JRedknapp11

03 Aug 2002, 08:35 PM

MY question would be...if the team is based in Canada..do they then have to field 15 players of Canadian citizenship , with the other 3 slots ( SI's ) going to American's and the rest of the world ?

SABuffalo786

04 Aug 2002, 02:10 PM

not gonna happen

DoyleG

04 Aug 2002, 06:51 PM

Originally posted by SABuffalo786
not gonna happen

Agreed. The MLS whould be more concerned with problems it has now than expansion.

Khansingh

06 Aug 2002, 12:24 AM

Originally posted by DoyleG

Agreed. The MLS whould be more concerned with problems it has now than expansion.

Oh come on. Don't you want to see the Edmonton Drillers taking on the likes of the San Jose Earthquakes and the Tampa Bay Rowdies? But you're right, survival, then expansion.

DoyleG

06 Aug 2002, 12:33 AM

Originally posted by Khansingh
Oh come on. Don't you want to see the Edmonton Drillers taking on the likes of the San Jose Earthquakes and the Tampa Bay Rowdies? But you're right, survival, then expansion.

It would be nice to see that. But with an expansion fee about the same as the Oilers payroll, it would scare a lot of people off.

Any strenghts in Canada should be put to building a stron domestic league here. Maybe the MLS can help in that department.

sslazio_1900

06 Aug 2002, 08:00 PM

Seeing how much progress has been made in developing a national league. I'd say we have just as much a chance of getting the MLS in Toronto ;)

DoyleG

07 Aug 2002, 05:27 PM

Originally posted by sslazio_1900
Seeing how much progress has been made in developing a national league. I'd say we have just as much a chance of getting the MLS in Toronto ;)

Chances are better for a Canadian League.

The odds of an MLS team in Toronto are just as good as an NHL team in Hamilton.

pugetsoundmls

08 Aug 2002, 03:42 AM

Hey Voyageurs, I posted something about this pre-crash and I continue to wonder...has the CSA campaigned to get one or two of your A-League teams into the FC Champions Cup? Perhaps this is the next best step for Canadian club soccer. Something tangible (as opposed to MLS and CUSL rumors) and a competition with a decent level of competition. After all, every region/country of North America is represented in the Champs Cup but Canada. That doesn't quite seem right, especially with all of 16 teams involved.

DoyleG

08 Aug 2002, 03:46 AM

Haven't heard anything on it. Try posting on the fan forum.

sslazio_1900

09 Aug 2002, 01:20 AM

Originally posted by DoyleG

The odds of an MLS team in Toronto are just as good as an NHL team in Hamilton.

...which could've happened :)
http://cbc.ca/pcgi-bin/templates/sportsView.cgi?category=Hockey&story=/news/2002/07/10/Sports/sabres020709

Joking aside: Ben Knight of Sportnet.ca writes:

A tiny story in the Globe and Mail reported recently that MLS commissioner Don Garber, giving his annual state-of-the-league address in Maryland, named Toronto as a possible site for expansion of the pro soccer league in 2004.

The report cleanly caught the Canadian soccer community off-guard. A hypothetical debate has long raged over whether it would be better to start a new all-Canadian league from scratch, or throw all available resources into a single MLS expansion bid. It's always been a moot point, though, because the league had always said it had no intention of expanding outside of the United States. So, has anything changed?

Maybe.

First of all, let's clear up what Garber actually said. Here are his exact words, taken directly from the MLS website:

"In the past months, we have visited several new potential MLS markets, including Toronto, Detroit, and San Antonio. We will not be expanding the League in 2003. We are hopeful to expand in 2004, though we have no specific dates in place."

There is no commitment here. There's no hint of favouring one city over another. Garber also mentions Cleveland and Oklahoma City, but the whole idea of expansion is clearly hypothetical.

So, if MLS expands in 2004, it might come to Toronto. That's considerably vaguer than what the Globe reported. But the fact that Toronto's even getting a look could signal a major shift in MLS policy.

Okay, let's take Garber at his word. What happens next?

"We will expand when we have the right market, with solid local ownership and an appropriate facility, and not before," Garber said. "We continue to seek investors willing to commit to the sport for the long-term, along with a public or private vision for a soccer-specific stadium."

Call me a cynic, but the Canadian soccer fan in me has always put "solid local ownership" in the same bag as Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. Great ideas all, but don't bet the farm on any of them turning up in the flesh any time soon. "Solid," as far as the MLS is concerned, means extravagantly rich, with enough influence to build a new 25,000-seat soccer stadium in a city that is tearing down the only one it has, with no plan to ever build another. No one who has ever owned a Canadian soccer team is even remotely in that league.

So we need a new class of owner. This miracle has actually happened in pro lacrosse. The Toronto Rock was a struggling franchise in Hamilton, Ontario, when a group of investors headed by Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment big wheel Bill Watters bought them up and moved them to Maple Leaf Gardens. Against all odds and previous logic, the Rock has won three NLL championships in four seasons, and has sold out both the Gardens and Air Canada Centre. Pro lacrosse now has a coast-to-coast television deal in Canada, even though it still gets less overall coverage than soccer in the local media.

So we need a wheel.

Then we come to the stadium problem. With Varsity Stadium being slowly fed to the wrecking machines, the last Toronto stadium standing with 25,000 seats is the Thing With The Lid On It. The Dome is an abominable soccer facility, with footie-hostile artificial turf. MLS is a natural grass league all the way. The birth of the MetroStars brought real grass to Giants Stadium, for heaven's sake! The league might allow SkyDome as a temporary facility, but only if real grass could be installed. Temporary grass, growing on removable panels, is allowed. It's also fearsomely expensive.

What MLS really loves is new soccer stadiums. The Columbus Crew built their own. The L.A. Galaxy will have a new home next season. The MetroStars are awaiting approval to build their own facility in New Jersey. Any Toronto MLS owner will have to build a stadium. The league is currently averaging 16,000 fans a game, and wants to do better. Columbus's new park seats 22,000, so a little bigger than that ought to be just about right.

Admittedly, that's a huge order. Frankly, I have no idea when MLS officials checked out Toronto, or who in heck they talked to when they were here. But there we apparently are! Toronto, Detroit, San Antonio, with possibly chasers in Cleveland and Oklahoma City.

Maybe Garber knows somethithe rest of us don't. MLS is so brazenly red-white-and-rah-rah-blue I can't see any reason they would even think of expanding into Canada unless there were oceans of money involved. Heck, in the very same speech, Garber bragged incessantly that the U.S. is now the strongest soccer nation in CONCACAF. He may be right, for the moment, but then he gasbagged on about MLS being a better league than Mexico's. A few days later, a Mexican club side pig roasted the Kansas City Wizards 6-1 in a Champions Cup match. The return leg, at Arrowhead Stadium, is not expected to be a hot ticket.

The door may be open, but the imminent-expansion story was premature. Personally, I hope this mythical wheel of an owner exists, and that he's not another puffed-up con man like Bruce McNall. I hope the Toronto Rock phenomenon can be re-created on the soccer field, because to generate the excitement and attention needed to jumpstart the pro game in Canada, this team can't settle on just being asked to play. Competitive isn't enough. This team will need to dominate. Three MLS championships in four seasons, and I think Canadian soccer will be just fine.

Though I still don't believe a word of it, the stage is apparently set. All we need now is a team, a stadium, a national TV deal and a visionary gazillionaire.

…And the usual suspects need not apply.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/story/10288456926467.shtml

DoyleG

09 Aug 2002, 02:04 AM

Garber was dumb enough to stake the whole league on the US sucess at the World Cup. Now with that sucess, he's running around trying to shore it up.

I don't buy into his ideas.

And neither should Canadians!

Krammerhead

27 Aug 2002, 05:31 PM

Originally posted by pugetsoundmls
Hey Voyageurs, I posted something about this pre-crash and I continue to wonder...has the CSA campaigned to get one or two of your A-League teams into the FC Champions Cup? Perhaps this is the next best step for Canadian club soccer. Something tangible (as opposed to MLS and CUSL rumors) and a competition with a decent level of competition. After all, every region/country of North America is represented in the Champs Cup but Canada. That doesn't quite seem right, especially with all of 16 teams involved.

I think that none of our 4 A-League teams can afford to participate in the Champs Cup.

DoyleG

27 Aug 2002, 06:50 PM

Originally posted by Krammerhead

I think that none of our 4 A-League teams can afford to participate in the Champs Cup.

Maybe the Impact. They could ask the PQ for the money needed.

Canadian_Supporter

28 Aug 2002, 03:27 AM

I certainly hope this doesnt happen. The MLS is an American league, keep it that way.

Khansingh

28 Aug 2002, 04:45 AM

Originally posted by DoyleG

It would be nice to see that. But with an expansion fee about the same as the Oilers payroll, it would scare a lot of people off.

Any strenghts in Canada should be put to building a stron domestic league here. Maybe the MLS can help in that department.

:eek:

The Oilers only have $25 Million in salary? Shoot.

The thing I wonder is, would Canadian teams be required to pay that fee in US Dollars? What breaks can they expect from MLS because of the weak Loon?

DoyleG

29 Aug 2002, 01:49 AM

Originally posted by Khansingh

:eek:

The Oilers only have $25 Million in salary? Shoot.

The thing I wonder is, would Canadian teams be required to pay that fee in US Dollars? What breaks can they expect from MLS because of the weak Loon?

May be higher now thanks to some inept arbitrators. If the expansion fee is $25M, it would have to be paid in US dollars. That means around $40M Canadian.

Crazy_Yank

29 Aug 2002, 01:37 PM

Wouldn't having say 4 Canadian MLS teams with predominantly Canadian players help your national team out quite a bit? It would give those who can't get a European work permit a decent league to play in. Much better than the A-league.

Gordon

29 Aug 2002, 01:49 PM

Originally posted by Crazy_Yank
Wouldn't having say 4 Canadian MLS teams with predominantly Canadian players help your national team out quite a bit? It would give those who can't get a European work permit a decent league to play in. Much better than the A-league.

Definitely it would be helpful for Canadian soccer and the NT specifically. But the expansion fees and cost of building a stadium is prohibitive. Especially for a league which may or may not be around in 5 years. The few well heeled Billionaires/Millionaires we have who are interested in soccer are involved with European teams and seemingly uninterested in domestic soccer. Alas no Hunts/Krafts et al in Canada it appears.

DoyleG

29 Aug 2002, 04:58 PM