Capital punishment on it's last legs

[wu-tang beez]

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/international/AP-Turkey-Politics.html?todaysheadlines

It seems as though Europeans continue to dictate to the world what values are correct. The EU has pressured the traditionally conservative NATO ally, Turkey, into ending its longstanding ability to punish offenders in accordance to islamic law. Although Turkey hasn't put anyone to death since '84, they still reserved the right to administer capital punishment as they saw fit.

Granted, I am no proponent of the great state of Texas' lust for executing inmates, but I sincerely believe that the government reserves the right to protect it's citizens from heinous crimes & otherwise, premeditated murders. No, I don't think it serves as adequate crime deterrent, but I do recognize the policy's effectiveness in bestowing psychological closure. How much security of mind would the victim's families of Charlie Manson's crusade against capitalism have if California had been able to enforce the death penalty?

It has been said that Europe blazes the sociology trail and America follows half a generation later. Considering the light sentencing & now abolished capital punishment statutes in Europe, how long will it be till the US Supreme Court redresses this issue and finds the death penalty as a violation of constitutional code under cruel and unusual punishments? Just this yr, majority decisions found it unconstitutional to administer justice to the mentally handicapped and to have sentencing taken away from the juries and pronounced from the judges.

[evilcrossbar]

As far as Turkey goes, nobody is forcing them to join the EU. Being the international equivalent of a members-only club, I guess the EU can set any standards it wishes for entry.


In the United States, the death penalty is still enormously popular which means that it won't be abolished any time soon.

If I recall correctly the debates have to do with the mechanics of the system (killing innocent people, whether the electric chair is cruel and unusual, etc.) NOT the fundamental issue of the desirability of executions.

The most recent blow to the system is the problem of death row inmates (many of them poor minorities) getting screwed-over in thier trials and then having DNA evidence exonnerate them years later. Many say that with more stringiency the system can be made to work.

I say *******, the death penalty has always screwed the poor and the unfortunate in society from its inception.

If you were cought in an act of petty theft in eighteenth century England you were pretty much f****ed, unless of course you could prove that you were literate or you had some property, then your sentence was commuted.

It should come as no surprise that today the wealthy who commit the same crimes as the poor will NEVER be penalized as harshly in the US.

[wu-tang beez]

The recent supreme ct ruling dealt w/ removing the jurisprudence of the judges in florida in determining sentencing & restoring the right to the jury. The other was to put an end to punnishing the mentally handicapped.

As far as the minority or poor argument goes, you are more likely to find yourself incarcerated and for a longer sentence if you are of color. However, the state of Texas has put a larger percentage of anglo offenders to death than it has minorities. I'm far too lazy to find the link but my not so lazy sales buddy looked it up shortly after the rulings. Since 1976, Texas has executed some 600 inmates.

Turkey wants to join the EU for obvious economic advantages & is part of a pattern of "westerninzing" the remnants of the Ottoman Empire. I don't think EU nations should dictate to another country which traditions are inappropriate for induction. Just the same I would be offended if someone characterized Texans as barbaric because we believe in crime and punishment.

[el_urchinio]

I don't think EU nations should dictate to another country which traditions are inappropriate for induction.

If you don't like it, don't join the EU. It's as simple as that. Is there something saying Turkey has to join?

[Pigs]

Turkey wants to join the EU for obvious economic advantages & is part of a pattern of "westerninzing" the remnants of the Ottoman Empire. I don't think EU nations should dictate to another country which traditions are inappropriate for induction.


I don't even consider Turkey as a European country. They are Asian to me, I think 95% of their country is on the Asian continent or something.

Turkey have shite human rights records, and everything else. It would be better for their own people if they joined the EU.

Like "el_urchinio" said, Turkey isn't being forced to join the European Union. Infact I reckon 90% of Europeans would rather Turkey "not" join the EU.

[Pigs]

I would be offended if someone characterized Texans as barbaric because we believe in crime.


Crime doesn't pay you know. :)

[dawgpound2]

I am starting to believe that we should behead those who mess with children (kidnapping and rapes we've been seeing in the news, molestation, etc.)

Cut their heads off in the public square!

[wu-tang beez]

Very funny but you forgot some key factors: This isn't the 15th century, constitutional law prohibits "cruel & unusual punishment" & the days of Willie Lynch are over.

[dawgpound2]

So some guy snatches some little 7-year old girl, rapes her and kills her....and yet it's "cruel and unusual" for us to take to a public square and cut HIS head off? I don't think so.

[el_urchinio]

So some guy snatches some little 7-year old girl, rapes her and kills her....and yet it's "cruel and unusual" for us to take to a public square and cut HIS head off? I don't think so.

You know what the greatest thing about free speech is? Not only does it give every moron and every slack-jawed yokel the right to voice his backwards opinions but it also gives me the right to completely ignore or ridicule the opinions of the said yokel. Damn, ain't the system grand?

[skipshady]

Originally posted by Pigs
I don't even consider Turkey as a European country. They are Asian to me, I think 95% of their country is on the Asian continent or something You could say the same for Russia - well, maybe not 95% but most of the country lies east of the Ural Mountains, correct? Not that they'll be joining the EU anytime soon.

[wu-tang beez]

Originally posted by dawgpound2
So some guy snatches some little 7-year old girl, rapes her and kills her....and yet it's "cruel and unusual" for us to take to a public square and cut HIS head off? I don't think so.

As I said, the days of Willie Lynch ended b4 any of us were born & for a damned good reason. There's no question that in 39 of our states, your offender would be executed. Public execusion, IMHO, would create a rift b/w the moderates and blood thirsty conservatives & would ultimately kill the death penalty. No pun intended.
That's what I meant about 15th century. The strict code of muslim fundamentalist, including flogging, castrating, clitorial mulitations & public execusions predates modern ideals. Not to pull a Michael Dukakkis, but I wouldn't support the public execution of anyone even if the victim was a family member or friend.

[dawgpound2]

Originally posted by el_urchinio


You know what the greatest thing about free speech is? Not only does it give every moron and every slack-jawed yokel the right to voice his backwards opinions but it also gives me the right to completely ignore or ridicule the opinions of the said yokel. Damn, ain't the system grand?


You calling me a yokel. That's precious!

[el_urchinio]

Do you know of any other terms for proponents of mob rule and vigilante justice?

[dawgpound2]

You seem to be the one jumping to conclusions. I am all for giving any defendant in a child molestation/rape/murder case a fair trial. Then, if found guilty, I give them a Bible to read for two weeks, take them out to the town square and cut their head off for all to witness.

[wu-tang beez]

Don't you think that we as leaders of the civilized and industrialized world should strive for more than the vigilante justice written in the Good Book?

[fox point fury]

Originally posted by dawgpound2
So some guy snatches some little 7-year old girl, rapes her and kills her....and yet it's "cruel and unusual" for us to take to a public square and cut HIS head off? I don't think so.

Why do you suppose someone would cause such horrible harm to an innocent? Surely this type of criminal and crime is far more heinous than the vast majority of events that disturb us daily, and I can understand why many feel that the level of punishment should be approach equality to the level of pain caused.

However, I feel that these people (remember, child abductors/rapists/murderers are people too) fall into the same boat as the Developmentally Disabled folks with sub-70 IQ's.

The Supremes recently ruled that the DD's should not be subjected to capital punishment because of their lack of ability to comprehend and control their actions. No one's saying that they didn't do anything wrong, just that they can't be accussed of willfully commiting a crime in the same sense that you or I can be. Would you hold a 4-yr old accountable for killing someone, even if he aimed a gun and said "I'm going to kill you now?" No, and the same logic applies to many DD adults.

Now let's look at the guy who abducts a little girl, rapes her, kills her and leaves her in a ditch. Do you think he's an OK person? No, people who are OK don't do that sort of thing. In fact, the overwhelming majority of people don't do that sort of thing. Could that possibly indicate mental illness? Could that mental illness impair judgement and therefore volition in the same way experienced by the DD's? Does that mean that the intelligent man who does these things out of illness is less guilty and should be exempt from capital punishment because it would be cruel to kill someone who was truly incapable of stopping himself? I believe the answer to all these questions is yes.

Of course, society must be protected from these people, but that doesn't mean that we get to write them off and stick them in an unmarked grave.

[SoFla Metro]

Originally posted by dawgpound2



You calling me a yokel. That's precious! he might have been calling you a moron, to be fair.

[wu-tang beez]

Well argued, but I disagree that classifying all pedophilic murderers as developmentally disabled should exempt them from lethal injections. Perhaps it's our regional ideals. An intelligent man, that presumably would pass a competency exam, knows the recourse of his actions and should thus, pay the ultimate price.

DD & Minors do not meet the criteria.

[dawgpound2]

For the record, I was never a victim of any molestation, etc. Nor do I know anyone personally who was. But, I think we can all see the destruction that these acts cause on people's lives (if, in fact, they aren't butchered by these animals in the first place).

A man preying on some little girl or boy doesn't deserve sympathy, or mercy in any way.

Even Jesus, the most peaceful Man in the history of the planet, proclaimed it would be better for those who hurt children to never have been born.

Cut their heads off in the town square.