Thank you, Oswaldo Sanchez

[Dan Loney]

What do you want in an arch-rival?

Ideally, you'd want someone formidable, evil, and incapable of beating you. Even better if that rival just obsesses over you, to what turns out to be their own detriment.

Take, for example, Rafa Marquez. You'd think a multiple champion World Cup defender for Monaco and Barcelona wouldn't completely lose his nut over Cobi Jones, but he did. Maybe he's respected in Catalonia, but he's a joke in the United States.

Which brings us to Oswaldo Sanchez. Unlike Marquez, Sanchez did not return from the World Cup in disgrace. He had a wonderful performance on the planet's biggest stage, returned home, then won the championship with stellar performances for Mexico's most popular team.

Then Landon Donovan beats him on a play that wasn't even his fault, and he takes it out on Eddie Johnson.

They don't do this against other teams. Mexico usually wins friends around the world. Marquez and Sanchez actually donated jerseys to MLS for auction last year, to help out Katrina victims. They've clearly got some conception of playing well and behaving with dignity.

But with us? They're the perfect villain. Evil clowns. Stooges who, by their own actions, damage their cause.

Sure, when Marquez fouled Jones, and when Sanchez fouled Johnson, the games had already been lost. If the US had left the field after Conrad's goal, Wednesday's game would have ended, what, 2-1? 2-2? Something like that. Sometimes, you come into a game with the hopes of a nation on your shoulders, and you lay a big fat donkey egg in front of the whole world. It happens. It's how you deal with that loss that defines your legacy.

With Zidane, he ended up throwing away his reputation, but no one took pleasure in that, really. France's is no one's arch-rival, and nobody really wanted to see the best player of our generation leave like that.

With Sanchez? He's a villain and a laughingstock among American soccer fans, and better still, he knows it. And even better still, we know he knows it.

We don't want our arch-rivals to play with sportsmanship and good cheer and "May the best team win" and "We respect each other" crap. We want them to squirm and writhe and curse their hateful fate. That's as much fun to watch as the actual game.

With a rival like that? You literally can't lose. Explanation. When (if?) Mexico beats us again, if the US players would say "Meh. Good game. They just up and beat us, what can you do, we'll get 'em next time"? I believe that's what the New Testament calls heaping coals of fire.

In, I hasten to say, public. During the game, when the cameras aren't rolling, Donovan or Johnson or someone should say to Sanchez, "Since you asked, our moms are fine. How's your dad?" just to get the guy to explode again.

If that's even necessary. Right now, Eddie Johnson, Kansas City Wizards flop, looks down on Oswaldo Sanchez, champion of Mexico - thanks entirely to Sanchez himself.

With enemies like these, who needs friends?

[mrliioadin]

I had a lot of respect for sanchez going into the game. He's one of the best keepers in concacaf no doubt. And as you point out he really isn't a bad guy.

Anyway I doubt i'de wanna crack on his dad but it was their fans chanting "bin laden" during one of the cups we played 'em in (sorry i forget which, you can see em doing it on the all access video ussoccer put out for 2005). Maybe there is no below the belt anymore.

Great post...

[Danny47]

Maybe he's respected in Catalonia, but he's a joke in the United States.

With Sanchez? He's a villain and a laughingstock among American soccer fans, and better still, he knows it.

In, I hasten to say, public. During the game, when the cameras aren't rolling, Donovan or Johnson or someone should say to Sanchez, "Since you asked, our moms are fine. How's your dad?" just to get the guy to explode again.

1)Why is he a joke in the U.S? Because he plays with intensity and passion which led him to shove a player?(ohhhhhhh we've never seen that in any sport in the states now have we)

2)Why is he a laughinstock?really why is he?

3) So you finish your long post criticizing your opponent for poor sportsman ship and now youre encouraging it? How can you compare stupid attempt to trip someone to ridiculing someones dead father? Yeah it was a stupid move by Oswaldo, but Eddie(and Lando) was celebrating the goal as if this were a World Cup game,and not to mention the goal was caused by interference by the ref!

Not trying to pick a fight with you but some of your statements hold no weight.

[Dan Loney]

Cheap-shotting an opposing player, then telling the press they can ******** their mothers, then claiming without a whole HECK of a lot of plausibility that he was defending his country's honor opens the door to family smack, in my opinion.

I'm always baffled by "Osama" chants. Mexican citizens died in the 9/11 attacks. I realize and understand you want to piss off the other team's players at all costs, but don't run down your own people when you do it.

EDIT to respond to the last post.

(1) SLIGHTLY more than a shove. Shoves don't get straight reds. It showed that Mexico's best player had pretty much given up trying to win the game. Mention Marquez anywhere else and you'll probably get glowing reviews, but to US fans, he's the guy that was humiliated by Cobi Jones.

(2) Why is Sanchez a laughingstock now? We hold these truths to be self-evident. Dude risked his international career in a friendly against one of his arch-rival's worst players, then went crazy in public about it. That might actually make him more popular in Mexico, but if it does, that's a sign of how pathological the lack of success in the US has become. Like Marquez, he might be a deity in Mexico, but every US fan is going to think of him and sneer.

I mean, Tony Meola's about the hottest head I can remember playing for the US, and I can't really picture him doing something like that. Certainly he wouldn't have told the press afterward, "Yeah, I did it, and I'm proud, because I hate losing to them."

(3) Sportsmanship, hell. There IS no sportsmanship in this rivalry. Complaining about Mexico not shaking hands, for example? Totally beside the point. Totally contrary to the spirit of this match.

Now, when (if?) we lose, we should ABSOLUTELY offer to shake hands. Make a big, obnoxious deal out of offering to shake hands. But not for anything as silly as sportsmanship. Because it would embarrass and discomfit Mexican players and coaches, and make us look good in defeat. LOOK sportsmanlike, but don't actually BE sportsmanlike if your already odious opponent is just a gram away from exploding.

Okay, this isn't something I would tell small children. And I think genuine sportsmanship leads to better play - Marquez and Sanchez play like garbage against the US, because all they can freaking think about is winning at any cost. I take a completely Machiavellian, utilitarian view of sportsmanship - it's good because it helps you win, and the appearance of sportsmanship is as important as the real thing. Who lifted the World Cup this past summer, Materazzi, or Zidane?

Blanco or Borgetti would have celebrated a goal Wednesday like they had just won an Academy Award - and why shouldn't they? And if Oswaldo was so upset about a goal being scored, he should, you know, not let Landon stroll around him. (Or get upset at his idiotic defense for allowing it to happen.)

The ref's part of play. I think I read somewhere that FIFA passed a rule saying you can pass to your teammates without bouncing it off the referee, so maybe Hugo Sanchez ought to consider giving that a try.

[steviemsv]

This wasnt a very well thought out post.

[Asprilla9]

i didn't know that about them donating jerseys for Katrina relief. that scores them big points.

something else to remember is that a lot of these Mexican players (1) come from the poorest of the poor and (2) have essentially no education. it's one thing for a guy like Sanchez or Marquez to lose his head and act like a complete jerk-off on an international stage, it's another for someone like Cobi Jones to. most of our guys come from fortunate upbringins and strong academic backgrounds. hell, we got guys with 4-year degrees from UCLA, Virginia and Stanford. FFS, we got a guy who went to Brown.

i'm not saying that excuses it or that education has some correlation with temper .. i'm just saying, know who you're dealing with. remember when Ramon Calderon made the comment that all of his players were (i'm paraphrasing) "idiots with no educations"?? ... it may have been a little over-the-top, but he's not wrong. most international footballers are.

[Reignking]

This wasnt a very well thought out post.

A bit less eloquent than usual...perhaps letting off some end-of-the-work-week steam, coupled with a few drinks?

[Danny47]

The term "chinge su madre" in Spanish,more specifically Mexico,while translated directly means "F their Mothers",its figurative and when that is said to someone ,or to you, doesnt mean "F your mother".The whole thing was blown out of proportion.It's like a homosexual term in amarica. If someone calls you gay,they dont mean youre gay,theyre just trying to insult your manhood. Im not sure if thsi is the best example but im damn sure that if you talk to someone whoe's ever been to Mexico knows what im talking about. Im not trying to excuse his actions, but the media is taking this and blowing it out of proportion. Were a US player to call a Mexican palyer a ************** or illegal, the US media would have not covered it at all.

Also, about the Osama chants. Yeah there are some ignorant people in Mexico, but guess what for every 1 ignorant Mexican, theres 1 equally ignorant American. Were talking about a counrty where on the west coast everybody thinks that anyone who isn't white is an illegal immigrant. andanyone who is from the middle east is a terrorist.

My bottom line on that I wish you woudn't juge every single Mexican fan on the actions of a few of them(And I beleive you werent trying to judge them all). Yes there are some ignorant Mexico fans but as I said earlier, theres an equal amount of ignorant US fans,or Argentinian fans,or German fans,etc etc

[dannytoone]

i didn't know that about them donating jerseys for Katrina relief. that scores them big points.

something else to remember is that a lot of these Mexican players (1) come from the poorest of the poor and (2) have essentially no education.

Thats not entirely true. Its probably true with the Central American countries minus Costa Rica, but Mexico is not poor in education. In fact, Mexico isn't really that poor of a country.

Many americans get that perception because they see the difference between their neighbors in Canada and their neighbors in Mexico.

[oman]

This wasnt a very well thought out post.


I thought it was a pretty ********ing good post. I like the "act like a sportsman but don't be sportsman" line.

[Malaga CF fan]

My bottom line on that I wish you woudn't juge every single Mexican fan on the actions of a few of them(And I beleive you werent trying to judge them all). Yes there are some ignorant Mexico fans but as I said earlier, theres an equal amount of ignorant US fans,or Argentinian fans,or German fans,etc etc

I'll take issue with you here. It's not that there aren't ignorant Americans. Why is George Bush a two-term President? Enough said.

It's just that most of our countrymen don't like soccer. If you're talking about a typical NASCAR crowd, or attendees at an SEC or Big 10 football game, then maybe you have an equal amount of ignorance to go around, but the soccer crowd is a little more educated. This isn't pride talking. The majority of us have had a good education and a decent childhood far removed from struggle and poverty.

Unfortunately, that works against us on the soccer field. We don't have a Diego Maradona waiting in the wings: dirt poor, with nothing to hug as he falls asleep but a soccer ball. Soccer in America is mostly a suburban, Caucasian, upper-middle class sport. We may not discover our native Diego until soccer filters down to the desperate classes, those who have nothing to live for but the Game. Those that don't have their personal soccer genius coached out of them by the time they are 13 by some know-it-all soccer coach who posts on BigSoccer and has 24 Sam's Army caps to his name.

But we are disciplined, focused, and we want to be the best. And fortunately, in a region like CONCACAF, that's about all you need.

Our soccer culture isn't fully developed yet, so I guess we can afford some class while we get there, but don't make excuses for Sanchez. Most of us US soccer fans felt sympathy for him before this match. He played courageously following the death of his father last summer. Now he's just an ass.

[Asprilla9]

Thats not entirely true. Its probably true with the Central American countries minus Costa Rica, but Mexico is not poor in education. In fact, Mexico isn't really that poor of a country.

Many americans get that perception because they see the difference between their neighbors in Canada and their neighbors in Mexico.(1) you don't have to be a poor country to put out air-head, education-less footballers (see: Western Europe). (2) Mexico isn't poor by Rwanda/Nicaragua standards, but it's poor enough that 100,000s of their population leaves every year to illegallly enter a neighboring country, for economic reasons. obviously something is going wrong there.

[HTownSoccerGuy]

Its a rivalry, there is gonna be some bad blood between the two teams. Cheat shots happen in every sport, including american sports. I dont think its that big of a deal. Yeah it was messed up, but all you gotta do is look at the scoreboard and laugh. If they get that upset then it really shows how much of a physcological advantage we have over them. F it, let em blow up everytime they play us

[Danny47]

[/quote]Our soccer culture isn't fully developed yet, so I guess we can afford some class while we get there, but don't make excuses for Sanchez. Most of us US soccer fans felt sympathy for him before this match. He played courageously following the death of his father last summer. Now he's just an ass.[/quote]

I think you lost me beacuse i was not talking about OSwaldo at thea point. I was trying to get the point across that not all Mexican fans are idiots and many find the Osama chants stupis acts and are ashamed by them. I've been to one MLS game an that was Chivas USA VS Galaxy. My parents are long time Guadalajara fans and are originally from Guadalajara. While my dad doesnt really feel Chivas USA,the mexican community in the US and especially southern california embrace them.

In that game i had the misfortune of sitting in front of some stupid galaxy supporters who throughout the whole game kept saying things like "oh look at all these dirty mexicans"......."they haven't even dried off yet"....."shouldn't they be working the fields". As i am of mexican parents, I was enraged by all of these and even decided to leave early.

So how would you feel that because of that sad night I went on to say "all american soccer(including yourself) fans are stupid and racist"Im guessing you wouldn't like it much as i am making a blanket statement. And once again my point is, just because some stupid mexican fans decides to chant "osama osama" doesn't mean were all ignorant. This is bigger than the whole Oswaldo incident.

[Dan Loney]

I'm pissing on the memory of Mexicans who died on 9/11. And not even during a game, where it might possibly, conceivably, thrown off an American player.And, the silly little sea hunt neg-repped me, to boot!

This is what insane, pathological obsession on a rivalry does to fans as well as players.

Well, as Bono said, tonight, thank God it's them instead of me.

Keep in mind that this cvnt does not represent all Mexicans.

Exactly.

And let me respond to Danny47, as a Galaxy fan - I wish I could believe that was total crap, but I'm certainly not dumb enough to vouch for our entire fan base. But that's another example of where being offensive backfired - someone running racist smack about immigrants isn't terribly aware of Galaxy history, or who our actual fans are. Someone popping off about **************** is almost as likely to be clocked by a Galaxy fan as by a Chivas USA fan.

And if I had known that was you sitting in front of me, I would have been more polite. I kid! I kid! I'm full of love.

[McGinty]

You gringos can wank yourselves to sleep with that chant if you like.

I'd prefer to think about how our national team has totally mindf#*&ed your national team. :D

This is nitpicking, but the only thing I disagree with Dan's post was that Zidane "threw away his reputation". For many people around the world, it made him even more loved, a tragic flaw that people somewhat admire. He handled the situation very well after the game as well, apologizing to the French fans, but not to his victim. Perhaps if he attacked a player like Pirlo or Cannavaro, he would have been more harshly criticized, but Marco Materazzi isn't exactly a sympathetic figure from all of the crap he's pulled over the years.

[sidspaceman]

I'm always baffled by "Osama" chants. Mexican citizens died in the 9/11 attacks. I realize and understand you want to piss off the other team's players at all costs, but don't run down your own people when you do it.



That is why I was always baffled by the mow my lawn chants and INS signs doesn't that insult some of the Hispanics and Mexican-Americans that support the USMNT?

[Danny47]

That is why I was always baffled by the mow my lawn chants and INS signs doesn't that insult some of the Hispanics and Mexican-Americans that support the USMNT?


Finally someone who see's where im coming from in reference to the whole "osama" chants incident.

[Tone Capone]

Thats not entirely true. Its probably true with the Central American countries minus Costa Rica, but Mexico is not poor in education. In fact, Mexico isn't really that poor of a country.

Many americans get that perception because they see the difference between their neighbors in Canada and their neighbors in Mexico.Dude, i went to Ensenada, barely over the border, and I met the people at the dump. They live there man, and their "houses" are made out of scraps that they find at the dump. they live there and they work there, SO THAT they can live there. it's a poor country.

[Bill Schmidt]

Which brings us to Oswaldo Sanchez. Unlike Marquez, Sanchez did not return from the World Cup in disgrace. He had a wonderful performance on the planet's biggest stage, returned home, then won the championship with stellar performances for Mexico's most popular team.

Then left for Santos Laguna (after being the face of Chivas for years) in December. They are in last place after three games. I was surprised to see his club listed as "Santos" on the ESPN broadcast. Oddly enough, I have seen him play live three times. Twice for Chivas in L.A., once for Mexico in Mexico City. He was world class then (shut out River Plate with some awesome saves). I don't think he's very old, so this is probably just a slump period.