What allows the US to keep their winning streak going?

[El Yucateco]

I think it can be agreed upon by fans on both sides of the border that when the US plays Mexico, they tend to take a defensive stance and wait for the counterattack (for the most part). El Tri, on the other hand, tends to play a more open, attack-minded style of play. All questions of which team is better (which is a very difficult matter to determine, given their distinctive and contrasting styles of play) aside, I think that we can also agree that El Tri's style of play is more attractive to watch; but, without a doubt, the US has our number (for the time being, or at least one hopes that that is the case).

Now while watching Wednesday's game, it was clear that El Tri was more dynamic and more willing to take risks, but they were far from perfect there were still imprecise passes, lackluster work off the ball (especially from several of the upfield players), and of course inexcusably terrible finishing. I think we're all growing tired of saying that our poor finishing is what keeps Mexico from becoming a force to be reckoned with on the international stage, but there is a great deal of truth to this.

Now on to why the US continues to beat Mexico (on home soil), well its the same story and we've seen it play out countless times over the past decade: Mexico attacks, the US defends, counterattacks and wins. Can you blame them for not changing a strategy that works. But to look into it a little further (and its been said by others in other parts of this site), as long as Mexico plays an open attacking style, we play right into the hands of the Yanks because they are good at counteracking and, I think few will question that the one aspect of the game that the US has demonstrated time and time again to be superior in is finishing.

So, should Mexico change its style of play, so as to match up better with our rivals from the North? I would answer a resounding "no", because it all comes back to finishing - our forwards are crap; however, just as we play into the Yanks' hands by playing an open attacking style, so too does any team that does the same with Mexico (see vs Argentina in WC 2006). Historically, Mexico creates more chances in games vs the US, and creates them earlier in the match. So logic stands to reason that, if Mexico could score first, the US would be forced to open up (at least to a degree), which could potentially mean (if our finish was worth a shit) that the floodgates would open up. But again, our forwards are crap (for the time being).

But, (and I know that I'm preaching to the choir) there is reason for hope in the future because, come this fall, Vela & Dos Santos will have finished their trayectoria with the Youth National Teams and will belong to Hugo & the senior side (not to mention that we've still yet to see what Nery Castillo can add to the mix). So, potentially we could see an attacking lineup that looks something like this (and I know that I'm not the first to mention this), assuming that Hugo abandons the 2 D-mid formation that he used and switches to a 4-4-2 (or 4-1-2-1-2, depending on what you prefer to call) with a diamond midfield:

------------Castillo-----------Vela-------------
-------------------Giovanni--------------------
Guardado-------------------------------Venado

As enticed as I am to cream my pants over this, we must keep in mind that both this lineup and its potential to produce in the way that we all hope it will are purely speculative. And, even if this lineup is the answer to our prayers, we still don't have any depth up top (at least until we see how some of the younger forward prospects like Omar Arellano, Enrique Esqueda, Luis Angel Landin, etc. pan out). But it is clear that Borgetti should never be called up again, and that Kikin & Bravo will (or, at least, should), in the very near future be relegated to a substitute role. Also, I have to say that I was disappointed that JC Cacho & JC Mosqueda did not get called up. We have to start looking for more attacking options. But if the aforementioned front five don't help us break the gringos, we might as well start getting used to this.

[Chiquitibum]

Yo pienso que la actitud tiene mucho que ver.

Si se burlan, si son pinches gringos feos, si han lastimado el orgullo en el pasado, tenemos que tener una actitud de calma. No de enojo, frustracion, ni querer vengarnos de su juego aburrido y defensivo.

Hay que ir y ser como dijo Jesus bracamontes. Jugar frios. sin sentimiento, sin querer tropezar, ni dar llegadas fuertes a sus jugadores.

Hay que jugar como sabemos, sin emocion, hasta poder meterle el gol y sequir con lo mismo.

Todo esto ayuda a la concentracion del jugador.

_
toy de acuerdo con lo que dices, de poder aprovechar las oportunidades de gol, y por eso estan los delanteros.

Tambien pienso que necesitamos tener paciencia en estos partidos. No intentar un tiro de media distancia cuando no es necesario.(pineda) Jugar con tactica, cansar los oponentes con llegada tras llegada, hazles correr mientras la aficion cante "ole", luego atacar con furia.

Como preparamos para jugar ante, panama, TyT, cuando sabemos que se van a echar para atras y jugar contragolpe?

[El Dude Malacopa]

We know how they play against us, they ALWAYS play the same freaking style. It's a smart move by them, Hugo tried to prevent this, but I think overconfidence played a major factor on the scoreline (Salcido in that CK).

Hugo's so called motivation turned into overconfidence and that's why our captains kept acting like cvnts when things didn't turn their way.(Oswaldo, Marquez)

We ALL know, that being overconfident against lesser teams like Costa Rica, Honduras, hell even Panama, specially the US is a GAME KILLER and besides the fact that the ball did not go in, there was a lack of leadership by part of Hugo and some of the players. No leadership, no attitude, no balls and no heart when they had so many chances to score.

What happened to the game tactics?
All Hugo did was substitute Blanco for Bofo, Morales for Guardado and Kikin for Medina... then what? what was that supposed to do? Guardado did his job, what about the other two? Why was Cuauhtemoc taken out?

[Rafael Hernandez]

If you want to get the result against Mexico, you just bunker. The americans are better at this because they get in the minds of the Mexican team (as you can see with Oswaldo) and thus they panic and thus play right at their hands. Also they are better physically and are just a better team than most. Thus when we suffer against CR or Honduras or Panama, bunkering, its a matter of time before they get scored on and it all goes to hell since then they attack and open up, but the americans are better and have a better mental atitude and thus can beat us, because they get it done.

[Capra27]

My analysis of the situation:

why do we lose against sam's nephews?

Mexico has to start acting like the Alpha wolf that they are(at leats in this region). This signifies that:

1. Do not take any loss (or win for that matter) too seriously. The US team takes no greater pleasure than seeing our team frustrated, and feeling impotent and defeated.

what attitude to take?

I suggest a calm, relaxed attitude, win or lose, (easier said than done, although achievable), simply because our team know they are better and
have the confidence in their football, above all else.

Over confidence is not bad, as long as it is rooted in reality.
Also, it implies that we have to be confident, but above all HONEST with ourselves.

If we see something going wrong and recognize it(Honesty), know we have the ability to resolve it (confidence).

If i act cocky that i have a rolls royce, before i buy one, then im only full of air. If i actually have one, thats a different matter.

And our teams knows it is the Rolls Royce of our Confederation.


OJO, this does not mean playing with no heart, intelligence and or passion, it only implies that should they find themselves down, only act accordingly and play what we know without worrying if we win or lose.

worrying clouds the mind.

worrying does not equal indifference to results.

only implies a state of being.

Remember, the more we chase something the further away it goes.

No better example of this than this past game, as evidenced by the countless gol opportunities without hitting one.

2. The US team is mostly a formula. Indicative of the capitalistic mindset of this nation, maxium profit with minimum effort.

Mexico plays with heart and Art, although they need to incorporate the intelligence and efficiency quotient.
Asi, cuando juege el Tri no sera tan desgastante.

This is key to great teams, namely, Brasil.

[Carlillos2theMex]

What do you do if a team bunkers??

You bomb them with long shots.

Mexican football is not know for our ca~onasos, instead everything is a build up. It's very hard to play our game when everything is clustered in. Also take into consideration that I can only think of Guardado and Marquez who are good at long range, Pineda tried a couple and they were hideous.

As far as the Nads go, the first goal was circumstantial and so was the second. They really don't care how they play as long as they win. IMO the lost was tactical rather than just mental. Bottom line Sanchez fncked up.

[John Jagou]

I am a firm beleiver that Mexico just can't handle the pressure of losing to the US, for whatever reason. The US knows it, and they exploit it beautifully.

I also think that Mexico gains a huge psychological advantage when they play the US in Mexico, especially at the Azteca.

As other posters mentioned, the key is patience.

[Chivasporas]

I just think we should play them at their own game, to pull them forward to open up the back a bit. If they are going to be playing like Biatches then we need to play like that as well. The way they beat us was the same way we beat brazil in the confederations cup.

[uclacarlos]

Mexico has to start acting like the Alpha wolf that they are(at leats in this region). This signifies that:
Signifies? Don't stain. [I'm kidding w/ the spanglish jokes ;) ]


Just for clarification... the US doesn't bunker like, say... a Norway vs. Spain or Denmark vs. Germany. The US doesn't put 10 guys behind the ball w/ a lone striker. Just look at the movement of the defensive backs up and down the flanks. True "bunker-ball" keeps all 4 defenders back at all times.

carry on...

[ЯR]

US is never pressured to do good or win.

Mexico is win or win.

[Capra27]

Signifies? Don't stain. [I'm kidding w/ the spanglish jokes ;) ]



haha good one man

[IronGhost]

I think it can be agreed upon by fans on both sides of the border that when the US plays Mexico, they tend to take a defensive stance and wait for the counterattack (for the most part). El Tri, on the other hand, tends to play a more open, attack-minded style of play. All questions of which team is better (which is a very difficult matter to determine, given their distinctive and contrasting styles of play) aside, I think that we can also agree that El Tri's style of play is more attractive to watch; but, without a doubt, the US has our number (for the time being, or at least one hopes that that is the case).

Now while watching Wednesday's game, it was clear that El Tri was more dynamic and more willing to take risks, but they were far from perfect there were still imprecise passes, lackluster work off the ball (especially from several of the upfield players), and of course inexcusably terrible finishing. I think we're all growing tired of saying that our poor finishing is what keeps Mexico from becoming a force to be reckoned with on the international stage, but there is a great deal of truth to this.

Now on to why the US continues to beat Mexico (on home soil), well its the same story and we've seen it play out countless times over the past decade: Mexico attacks, the US defends, counterattacks and wins. Can you blame them for not changing a strategy that works. But to look into it a little further (and its been said by others in other parts of this site), as long as Mexico plays an open attacking style, we play right into the hands of the Yanks because they are good at counteracking and, I think few will question that the one aspect of the game that the US has demonstrated time and time again to be superior in is finishing.

So, should Mexico change its style of play, so as to match up better with our rivals from the North? I would answer a resounding "no", because it all comes back to finishing - our forwards are crap; however, just as we play into the Yanks' hands by playing an open attacking style, so too does any team that does the same with Mexico (see vs Argentina in WC 2006). Historically, Mexico creates more chances in games vs the US, and creates them earlier in the match. So logic stands to reason that, if Mexico could score first, the US would be forced to open up (at least to a degree), which could potentially mean (if our finish was worth a shit) that the floodgates would open up. But again, our forwards are crap (for the time being).

But, (and I know that I'm preaching to the choir) there is reason for hope in the future because, come this fall, Vela & Dos Santos will have finished their trayectoria with the Youth National Teams and will belong to Hugo & the senior side (not to mention that we've still yet to see what Nery Castillo can add to the mix). So, potentially we could see an attacking lineup that looks something like this (and I know that I'm not the first to mention this), assuming that Hugo abandons the 2 D-mid formation that he used and switches to a 4-4-2 (or 4-1-2-1-2, depending on what you prefer to call) with a diamond midfield:

------------Castillo-----------Vela-------------
-------------------Giovanni--------------------
Guardado-------------------------------Venado

As enticed as I am to cream my pants over this, we must keep in mind that both this lineup and its potential to produce in the way that we all hope it will are purely speculative. And, even if this lineup is the answer to our prayers, we still don't have any depth up top (at least until we see how some of the younger forward prospects like Omar Arellano, Enrique Esqueda, Luis Angel Landin, etc. pan out). But it is clear that Borgetti should never be called up again, and that Kikin & Bravo will (or, at least, should), in the very near future be relegated to a substitute role. Also, I have to say that I was disappointed that JC Cacho & JC Mosqueda did not get called up. We have to start looking for more attacking options. But if the aforementioned front five don't help us break the gringos, we might as well start getting used to this.

I liked how you started but disagree with some points. What if Gio/Nery/Vela don't pan out? What if they just don't end up cutting it? Too many people are counting their chickens before they hatch. We can't rely on what if's. So I disagree, we MUST start changing our game plan against the US. We need to start thinking, someting the Mexican team seems to suck at. They have alot of heart and skill, but when they need to think they almost don't want to. But if we don't wanna use our brains we could just keep getting beat by the same US strategy over, and over, and over, and over.... But hey, at least we play pretty, right?

[El Kapitan]

To me this has to do more with the mentality than anything else, it's not the rival, it's the psychological milestone the rival has become.

Everybody, starting with the players, should take the match for what it is, a game, if you saw the face of Borgetti you could tell that the man wasn't enjoying the game, that goes for many other players on the pitch last Wednesday, it's not a surprise that you end up screwing things when your head is hot

This happens to us not only in the games against the US, it also happens in every must win situation, an example of that is every round of the last 16 on the past 4 World Cups, sometimes playing at home has helped to overcome this problem, like in Confed Cup 99 and the round of last 16 in WC 86, but we can't count on playing every game on Mexican soil.

Hopefully future generations like the one of the players that won the U-17 WC would manage to overcome this problem of mentality, after all Chucho Ramirez claims that the key of his success relays on his technique of Mentalization.

[SoyOllin]

Well........since chucho has managed the only Mexican team to win a world cup how bout.....
CHUCHO RAMIREZ FOR NEW NT COACH! :D

I kid I kid, we should let Hugo do his best and then we can analyze the problems after its done. But hey why not in the future? ;)

[Jamooky]

My two cents: This arrogant notion that Mexico is the "alpha wolf" and in some way superior to the US must stop. 10 years ago it was true, it no longer is. This arrogance manifests during the games through Mexico's refusal to change their tactics and after the games with the "it's better to look good than win" attitudes. The US as figured out how to beat Mexico, Mexico hasn't even TRIED to figure out how to beat the Yanks.

People need to stop kidding themselves. Look at the lineups both teams fielded, the US lineup could be described optimistically as "experimental". Mexico's fielded their World Cup team. Still, Mexico can't even score.

What's most embarrassing is that even though the US has proven they have Mexico's number, Mexico still boasts about this ludicrous notion of regional superiority and nobility in playing "the beautiful game" even in losing causes. And I can assure you, nothing makes the Yanks happy than (again) beating Mexico and than reading all the quotes from Mexican coaches and players about how they were unlucky y played better y were technically superior. The US will ALWAYS gladly trade technique y flair y "beautiful football" for a win. Would Mexico?

I'm an Argentine fan, and from the way I see it, Mexico plays best when they put their bull-crap machismo aside and just play their game. They seem to do this in the World Cup. When they played Argentina, they respected us, knew how good we were, and set out to play the best they could to beat us. Against the US, their heads are filled with so much crap, they cant function properly. You guys may still look down on American players as unskilled, unpolished, and generic. They may not have the same foot-skills, tactical acumen or creativity as El Tri. But guess what: they own you, on the pitch and in your head. Rafa Marquez y Oswalso Sanchez proved that Wednesday night.

I suppose its up to Hugo to make this right? yeah right :rolleyes:

[John Jagou]

Memo Cantu said it best yesterday. When Mexico plays against the US, they play not to lose, and when they are losing, they panic. Somehow, someway, Mexico needs to play to win vs. the US.

You can't be arrogant and have the air of superiority when in the back your mind you are scared to death of losing.

[uclacarlos]

Memo Cantu said it best yesterday. When Mexico plays against the US, they play not to lose, and when they are losing, they panic. Somehow, someway, Mexico needs to play to win vs. the US.

You can't be arrogant and have the air of superiority when in the back your mind you are scared to death of losing.
And then when you publicly -- and repeatedly -- deny the obvious, you play right into the hands of your opponent.

Your opponent can read you. They know they own you. They own you so badly that you can't even see it.

At some point, that deep-seeded doubt will creep up in places unexpected... like Azteca.

Also, the more that el Tri publicly disses the US, the more fodder they give the US. Few things unite a team more than being publicly disrespected.

Why give your opponent that edge?

[Chiquitibum]

And then when you publicly -- and repeatedly -- deny the obvious, you play right into the hands of your opponent.

Your opponent can read you. They know they own you. They own you so badly that you can't even see it.

At some point, that deep-seeded doubt will creep up in places unexpected... like Azteca.

Also, the more that el Tri publicly disses the US, the more fodder they give the US. Few things unite a team more than being publicly disrespected.

Why give your opponent that edge?

Although US knows they are owned in Azteca, they are in awe. Landon pees his pants as he submits to his girly self and cries on his sisters shoulder. EJ looks up at the stadium in awe as he knows its his daddy and proceeds to suck it up on the field.

[IronGhost]

My two cents: This arrogant notion that Mexico is the "alpha wolf" and in some way superior to the US must stop. 10 years ago it was true, it no longer is. This arrogance manifests during the games through Mexico's refusal to change their tactics and after the games with the "it's better to look good than win" attitudes. The US as figured out how to beat Mexico, Mexico hasn't even TRIED to figure out how to beat the Yanks.

People need to stop kidding themselves. Look at the lineups both teams fielded, the US lineup could be described optimistically as "experimental". Mexico's fielded their World Cup team. Still, Mexico can't even score.

What's most embarrassing is that even though the US has proven they have Mexico's number, Mexico still boasts about this ludicrous notion of regional superiority and nobility in playing "the beautiful game" even in losing causes. And I can assure you, nothing makes the Yanks happy than (again) beating Mexico and than reading all the quotes from Mexican coaches and players about how they were unlucky y played better y were technically superior. The US will ALWAYS gladly trade technique y flair y "beautiful football" for a win. Would Mexico?

I'm an Argentine fan, and from the way I see it, Mexico plays best when they put their bull-crap machismo aside and just play their game. They seem to do this in the World Cup. When they played Argentina, they respected us, knew how good we were, and set out to play the best they could to beat us. Against the US, their heads are filled with so much crap, they cant function properly. You guys may still look down on American players as unskilled, unpolished, and generic. They may not have the same foot-skills, tactical acumen or creativity as El Tri. But guess what: they own you, on the pitch and in your head. Rafa Marquez y Oswalso Sanchez proved that Wednesday night.

I suppose its up to Hugo to make this right? yeah right :rolleyes:

Quoted for truth. Mexico needs to put the excuses aside, and play the US like if they were playing Brazil. Mexico needs to be humble, and they need to start THINKING.

[Goofy]

I hate to give free consultations, but what da heck, stoopid hugo ain't reading:
If you keep doing what you have always done, you will keep getting what you always got.