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lost
09 Feb 2007, 09:03 AM
Ok, its a fact, we were all correct all along, Mclaren is, of course, the wrong man for the job, promoted to a station far beyond where his abilities and intelligence should ever have got him. The FA have continued their long and virtually uninterrupted 3 century long tradition of making the wrong decision whenever a decision of any sort has been forced upon them, and now we are all just treading water until the early days of next year when we will be seeking a new manager for the NT. In the last 5 games we have scored only 2 goals, we have lost 2 matches and we have looked diabolical all along. This is not a problem with having poor players, or even having a few key personnel out, it is a problem with the way the team is controlled and instructed, this is not a problem that is going to go away whilst the ginger one is in the job. It is only a matter of time until he is replaced, but of course the fa will now make another wrong decision and wait until we have failed before making an alteration.

However, that decision is coming. there is no way that they would keep mclaren till 2010, even though we would have done in th past, with people like Bobby Robson, Don Revie and even Alf Ramsey having been kept in their jobs despite having failed to qualify for finals at some point in their respective tenures without having been fired. So the only relevant piece of information that will have any impact on our lives as england fans over the next two years is: who will be the next manager?

I vote for Scolari, Mourinho, Fergie or Lippi.

Scolari will be available after euro 2008. Even if he fluffs this one, which is highly unlikely, he will still have been to 3 tournaments and won one, been to the final of the next and then the semis of the last one. and that squad at 2006 was rubbish, he achieved a miracle getting them as close to the final as they got, that with a ronaldo that had been virtually put out of commission by boularouz, deco sent off and out of the england game, miguel out of the tournament, figo and rui costa (effectively) finished before the tournament had even started, no strikers of any ability whatsoever, etc. Seriously, in retrospect what portugal did at that tournament was virtually a miracle, and it was all thanks to scolari, because the players were mostly useless and had virtually no attacking ability in the entire squad. so even if they flop at 2008, he is still the best international manager available.

Mourinho: the best club manager in the world over the past 5 years, no doubts in my mind about this. quite possibly he is about to win his 5th successive league title, and then, im sure, he will be available to the highest bidder, or perhaps the most interesting prospect. one thing about him, he was already won everything as a club manager, league titles, european cup, uefa cup, everything. the only thing left for him to conquer in life is international football. and what better team to win something with than the newcastle united of international football, on of the biggest teams going that cannot win for love nor money. Where would an international cup for england , when placed alongside his other trophies, put him in the history of great managers? maybe not for tactical innovation, but in terms of pure winning, he would have be approaching the best of all time, and this is before he is even 50! im sure this is something that may have crossed the special ones mind.

fergie: i think he is going to bow out of club football in the not too distant future. i very much doubt it will be this summer, but who know, he will be 67 by the end of the 2008 season, maybe this will be time for him to call it a day. If this is a possibility, then why would he not be a candidate for the part time role as england manager? the man is one of the most successful managers in footballing history, he would be well worth a shot as NT manager. plus he may want to secure some sort of legacy with a shot at an international tournament. it would be a step into the past trying to get an england team playing the kind of attacking football that Mu play, and it might well fail horribly, but i would not mind seeing it tried out, its more than worth the gamble given the success that fergie has had throughout his 4 decade long managerial career.

Lippi: same as fergie, a great manager in terms of what he has won, he is also available at the moment. i doubt he has spent too much time in his life dreaming of managing england, but im sure if offered the position, he would give it long and hard consideration. he is proven in both club and international football, winning leagues, reaching 4 ec finals, winning the wc, etc.

Other managers that would be nice, but are not available, are people like Gus Hiddink and Arsene Wenger, but neither are worth considering as they are just not going to be available for the next few years for england. gus with russia and then, i think everyone is already aware, chelsea. and wenger just will not walk away from arsenal for the foreseeable future.

(Just to really highlight a point, please compare Mcclaren to the above names and then just weep, let it all out. he is a pygmy compared to the above names, his name will never be said in the same breathe as any of them. how is he running our nt?????)


And then there is the english brigade, that im sure we will hear a clamouring for, both from certain quarters of the fa and various little englanders. stuart pierce again? sam allardyce? how about steve coppell this time around, maybe neil warnock? whats so funny about that? he has 'passion'. he 'knows the english game'. he 'understands what it means to put on an england shirt' , or whatever other clichés we will no doubt be subjected to in the build up to a new appointment. but please, compare any of those english names to any of the non english ones i have listed, and then just shut the ******** up. there is no english manager available. they are just too shit, they never win anything, and dont occupy any positions of any importance in world football. furthermore, they are not likely to be offered any of these positions in the foreseeable future either.

dwanyewest
09 Feb 2007, 09:42 AM
The man i feel we should've got in the first place in my opinion it should've been Guus Hiddink you only have to look at his record with international teams

glennaldo_sf
09 Feb 2007, 09:44 AM
Gareth Southgate. :)

Rig1964
09 Feb 2007, 09:50 AM
Psycho......Psycho....Psycho....

Rig1964
09 Feb 2007, 10:32 AM
And then there is the english brigade, that im sure we will hear a clamouring for, both from certain quarters of the fa and various little englanders. stuart pierce again? sam allardyce? how about steve coppell this time around, maybe neil warnock? whats so funny about that? he has 'passion'. he 'knows the english game'. he 'understands what it means to put on an england shirt' , or whatever other clichés we will no doubt be subjected to in the build up to a new appointment. but please, compare any of those english names to any of the non english ones i have listed, and then just shut the ******** up. there is no english manager available. they are just too shit, they never win anything, and dont occupy any positions of any importance in world football. furthermore, they are not likely to be offered any of these positions in the foreseeable future either.

While we're about it lets get some non English players. Henry up front with Rooney would be awsome. And why don't we try and get Buffon in goal, surely he'd be a better choice than Robinson.

Alan_V
09 Feb 2007, 11:10 AM
Depends on whether the FA caves in to the raucous shouts of the big mouths like Whelan for an English manager again or not. I'd say the possibilities include Hiddink, but I think they may also inquire as to the availablity of Wenger and Mourhino. I don't expect Big Phil would accept again. Doesn't want the daily intrusion into his private life and he's really not available til after Euro 2008.

Prenn
09 Feb 2007, 11:12 AM
Psycho......Psycho....Psycho....

I'm trying to weight up if you're serious or not....


















I've decided you're not :D :D Good one.

Prenn
09 Feb 2007, 11:16 AM
I think Lippi is possibly the only one who would give it some serious thought.

The FA seriously botched their last attempt so we can forget Hiddink (who was offended at not being offered the job straight off) and Scolari, who doesn't want to have to deal with media.

M
09 Feb 2007, 11:32 AM
How much will it cost the FA to get rid of McClaren and can they afford it?

Prenn
09 Feb 2007, 11:36 AM
How much will it cost the FA to get rid of McClaren and can they afford it?

Not as much as it'll cost if we miss out on Euro2008

lobomojo
09 Feb 2007, 01:33 PM
Not as much as it'll cost if we miss out on Euro2008

Big Sam, and yes I am serious, the team needs someone who understands the English nature and game and can adapt it to international football. Bolton really is much better organized and better on the ground than for which they get credit. England is not going to win a tournament by playing continental football and beating teams at their own game but by utilizing the best of English football, agression and their nature, while losing the worst of it, sort of like the Germens utilize their strengths rather than try to play like Italy.

-Offside-
09 Feb 2007, 04:08 PM
Scolari will be available after euro 2008. Even if he fluffs this one, which is highly unlikely, he will still have been to 3 tournaments and won one, been to the final of the next and then the semis of the last one. and that squad at 2006 was rubbish, he achieved a miracle getting them as close to the final as they got, that with a ronaldo that had been virtually put out of commission by boularouz, deco sent off and out of the england game, miguel out of the tournament, figo and rui costa (effectively) finished before the tournament had even started, no strikers of any ability whatsoever, etc. Seriously, in retrospect what portugal did at that tournament was virtually a miracle, and it was all thanks to scolari, because the players were mostly useless and had virtually no attacking ability in the entire squad. so even if they flop at 2008, he is still the best international manager available.


Portugal's tactics were all wrong and i don't believe in miracles. Pauleta was suffering a dip of form( he's usually a decent forward even at his age) yet he was played time and time again when he simply shouldn't have been. The squad selection was wrong to start with. Petit? N Valente? Those are indeed useless players that were included in the first 11. Apart from the three mentioned Portugal matched (or even surpassed) England on all other areas on -current- form(except maybe Maniche, but he put up a brilliant display). In addition, Portugal had a real leader in Figo(who put decent performances in all games except the one vs England, hardly a finished player).

With these obvious errors, how can Scolari be the one fully responsible for the performance?
That should make you meditate on the players. Maybe they just gave their all(player like Figo, Ricardo, Miguel R Carvalho,Deco, Ronaldo, Maniche had a lot to give).
Will and ambition is what guided Portugal to a top4 spot but those two attributes are hardly England's strong points, now are they? Scolari gets too much praise. Look at where are they now. Portugal will possibly miss Euro 2008 despite having better players than what they had in the 2006 WC. Why? Because the players are no longer motivated and their passion is gone.

Spur_Forever
09 Feb 2007, 04:40 PM
Portugal's tactics were all wrong and i don't believe in miracles. Pauleta was suffering a dip of form( he's usually a decent forward even at his age) yet he was played time and time again when he simply shouldn't have been. The squad selection was wrong to start with. Petit? N Valente? Those are indeed useless players that were included in the first 11. Apart from the three mentioned Portugal matched (or even surpassed) England on all other areas on -current- form(except maybe Maniche, but he put up a brilliant display). In addition, Portugal had a real leader in Figo(who put decent performances in all games except the one vs England, hardly a finished player).
Could not agree more. Scolari is good, but not the genius his results seem to suggest. In fact, as you pointed out some of his choices have been very puzzling - even when you look at his track record for Brazil. The difference there is that their players are so freaking amazing that they won in spite of Scolari's mistakes.

If we really want an amazing national team manager, we need Hiddink. What he did with Korea was mind-blowing (sure they were in front of their home crowd, but who had ever heard of Korea as a decent football team before then) and with a little more luck, Australia could have gone further in the last WC too. We need to sack McClaren regardless, but our best bet is to make Hiddink an offer he absolutely cannot refuse. Hopefully, by that time, Russia will be out of the running for a place in the Euro and he won't feel too bad leaving them for us.

Spur_Forever
09 Feb 2007, 05:02 PM
While we're about it lets get some non English players. Henry up front with Rooney would be awsome. And why don't we try and get Buffon in goal, surely he'd be a better choice than Robinson.
Are you for real? The best man has to get the job, no matter what nationality. Fact of the matter is that since Venables, we've been in a rut in terms of good English managers. I mean Bryan Robson would probably give his right arm for England, but should he get to manage the national team for that reason alone? Let's be clear if we had a world-class English manager, I'd be all for it, but we just don't. Surely the experiences of the Turnip, Hoddle, Keegan and now McSven must be worth something.

Allardyce is the only one who has a prayer, but there's no way he's as good as some of the other names being touted. I'd like to see Allardyce switch clubs and duplicate the success he's had at Bolton before giving him the reigns for England. We all know about his use of innovative techniques and his ability to get the best out of players, but that has always been in a controlled environment. As Sven found out, things are different whe you don't have your players week-in-week-out and they only rarely train together. Someone like Hiddink however, knows all about the restrictions on international management and can hit the ground running.

Toon³
09 Feb 2007, 05:20 PM
I know it won't be popular but I think it will be Allardyce.

Prenn
09 Feb 2007, 06:32 PM
I know it won't be popular but I think it will be Allardyce.

No, not with the allegations against him. Even if nothing is ever proven/disproven it will be too much for the FA to risk.

arthur d
09 Feb 2007, 06:55 PM
No, not with the allegations against him. Even if nothing is ever proven/disproven it will be too much for the FA to risk.

What do you think about the probability of getting El Tel again?

Prenn
09 Feb 2007, 07:07 PM
What do you think about the probability of getting El Tel again?

Slim, I hope. He's been out of the game for far too long.

Having said that though I think it's possible that if the FA did sack McSven they'd give the job to Venables for the rest of the qualifying campaign.

arthur d
09 Feb 2007, 07:26 PM
Slim, I hope. He's been out of the game for far too long.

Having said that though I think it's possible that if the FA did sack McSven they'd give the job to Venables for the rest of the qualifying campaign.

Yes, that's what I thought.

But then, Mc Laren won't really be sacked unless he fails to qualify will he. The FA are not exactly the fastest thinkers. And that's precisely why I think they will take the easy way out and hand it to El Tel when Mc Laren is sacked (i.e. after England fails to qualify, or more likely after Euro 2008).

Maybe the priority should be to clean up the current mess that is called the FA.

Captain Grimes
09 Feb 2007, 11:35 PM
Martin O'Neill.

McClaren won't be there in two years.