Annual "Without Saint Kraft..." thread

[rkane1226]

Originally posted by johnp
each to his own; we all know the revs, and soccer, can't be choosey about the fans they have ... we've gotta make room for them all!

Seems to me that they are choosing their fans, or maybe just choosing to not have fans.

Let's see, game 1 vs. Columbus, I come to the game with 4 sub 12 year old kids (6, 8,11 and 11) and I'm carrying extra sweatshirts and gloves for them in a nylon _REVOLUTION_ duffel bag so that these belongings won't be spread to the wind by the kids (a bag handed out at the stadium sometime in the last couple years). NO ENTRY - YOU MUST THROW THE BAG OUT. A fuss to REV mgt. got me an e-mail whose most positive interpretation is, "Don't bring your kids unless you're sure it is going to be warm and dry."

Game two, I flash my Center Circle pass to the parking people who tell me, "Nope you gotta park with the general populace," I guess Krafty insists I pre-purchase my parking. He'd rather have his money now than get a full $15/game from me. Oops, he did get his full $15 but he got to insult me too. Where are those center circle perks?

Oh well, we brought some extra kids (aren't we fools?) mostly to see the women play. Let's buy a ticket. Oops, no more Center Circle ticket discounts on game day. Gotta love those Krafty marketing people... Another Center Circle perk down the drain.

Well, Let's go get in line. Hey look at all those people with large duffel bags going right past security. Consistancy is great. Well, I don't have a bag but I'm carrying extra coats, two programs, a magnet. Oh the hell with it. The magnet and the programs go on the ground.

Well we're finally in our seats and a little bit grumpy. Do you really think I'm going to cheer? Well, let's see them play. Oops, they're crap, again, this year. Okay, now the environment in the stadium AND the product on the field suck. Why should I pay to experience this?

Go right on chanting, "You suck." But don't direct it at the opposition. Let's start the yearly "Without Saint Kraft We Wouldn't have soccer in New England" thread but for my money his team, his stadium, his management all deserve the goal kick chant!

Oh, and wasn't Tony Frias III stunning on Saturday? What a chump organization.

And since I'm on a rant here.

1. Franchino and Heaps still can't make a cross to save their lives. How many years until someone figures that out?
2. All you do is boot the ball into the SJ end for 80+ minutes but with less than 10 minutes left and down two goals your defense starts a passing drill? Across and back, across and back. Wonderful coaching, just wonderful.

Saint Kraft my...

[Revs Fan Forever]

Sadly, I agree with almost everything that you said. Kraft wants the Revs as a business investment and he doesn't care about how the diehard fans feel about what he's doing. The team on the field sucks. It's because of the crapy midfield. SN you better find a solution to the midfield quick or you'll be axed just like Clavijo. I don't think the diehard fans will really enjoy themselves until someone buys the revs who is a soccer fan and who gives a damn about the fans and team. Will we ever have a consistent team for a year?????

[Karey Lambert]

The difference between Miami and New England is that in Miami they hope to some day get a first class MLS franchise. In New England we know we'll never get one.

I used to live in DC. Going to games was so much fun. Foxboro is just boring. It's that horrible stadium. It doesn't matter how much you try. It's like a morgue.

[johnp]

i think a revs game is one of the few sporting events in the world that doesn't have a program with the opponents roster available.

Past years they had the boston globe (I think) thingie.

now, the upgraded CC program emails you multiple pages of pretty useless stuff that you can print expensive color pages of, then smuggle into the game (unless you carry it in your hands), only to find it has no opposing team roster ...

perhaps the organization could get that mailing down to 1 or 2 pages of black and white basic stuff, say, rosters and projected lineups ...

[Philippe.Vezina]

rkane1226 wrote:

Oh well, we brought some extra kids (aren't we fools?) mostly to see the women play. Let's buy a ticket. Oops, no more Center Circle ticket discounts on game day. Gotta love those Krafty marketing people... Another Center Circle perk down the drain.

-----------------

I honestly couldn't believe it when I heard about this two weeks ago. One of the only perks that we as season ticket holders had left from this pathetic excuse of a season ticket package was the fact that you could use your season ticket status to buy discounted tickets for walk-ups on game day.

Now they've done away with that unless you buy the tickets at least 1 day before game day. I personally know a lot of people who used to come on game day, and buy the tickets for the discount. Sadly, most of those people have already told me that with the new policy, they'll come to a game or two this season, when they were usually good for 10 games a season.

It's become such a joke the way we (season ticket holders) are treated that it really isn't funny any more. Compared to what the other teams offer in their ticket package, we are a laughing stock. Er...um...OK I'm a laughing stock, because I still foolishly slap my money down year after year. This franchise won't institute a ticket exchange policy, and now takes the gameday discount away. These people truly love to slap their faithful in the face. 15K on opening day when the team made it to the MLS Cup (losing only in overtime) the year before is pretty pathetic.
The front office...every one of the lot....ought to be strung up by their thumbs and.....!!!!

[mpruitt]

kudos more people who discourage me from going to Revs games, well done.

[RevsGuy06]

My story...season ticket holder since day one, back in the promsing days. 1995 to be exact. The treatment of season ticket holders has gotten worse and worse each year, but i love my club and will support them forever and beyond, and have continued to slap money down for them, but I never suffered personal mis-teatment by stadium/game-day workers until this past saturday.

Not knowing that the parking passes are only good for the STADIUM parking lot, I was shut down from my usual parking lot across from the stadium, where the Rev Army parks and has their usual pre-match social time. The thing is, I've used parking passes during previous seasons in that parking lot before, and had no problem. Now I'm being told that they are only good for the stadium lots. Me being a "Much appreciated center cirlce member", I think there shouldnt be a problem as to where I wanna park with my parking passes.

So I gave in without much agrument, hoping that things will change as the season progresses, and proceded down to the stadium lot...i pull up to the center circle lot, and a fellow is there, wanting to scan my parking pass, so i take the pass off my mirror so he can scan it, proceeds to, and hands it back, and I toss the thing in the back of my car, thinking i'm all set. Then i drive into the center circle lot and this other worker starts screaming at me from yards away WHERES YOUR PASS?!? GET OUT OF HERE IF YOU DONT HAVE ONE!! So I show the angry fellow my pass and he proceeds to scream KEEP IT ON YOUR MIRROR!! So now i gotta take the stupid thing off my mirror, only to put it back on again. I know, sounds like whiny complaining, but its just a stupid hassle when you think about it.

Then, because my buddy and I usually kill 45 minutes to an hour at our regular parking lot, now have nearly two hours on our hands, and the center circle lot is deserted, so we decide to knock a ball around for a little bit, to kill time and all. Another big mistake I guess, because I then had another worker with his panties up in a bunch screaming at me to put the ball away. So I say F-ck it, lets just go inside and wait for nearly two hours for the game to start. I proceed to a small gate entrance, inbetween the far side of the proshop and the ramps leading to the tunnel (a real time saver from the center circle lot) handed the lady my ticket and she pauses and goes "uh, center cirlce members have to enter from the other side of the proshop". What the f-ck. I'm annoyed enough already that i really dont want to walk the perimiter of the stupid PATRIOTS proshop to enter the stadium when I can enter a lot quicker and closer. Again, sounds like stupid whining and complaining, but when you think about it, its all an annoying hassle that no dedicated fan who drops loot after loot for this team deserves to deal with.

So I count to ten and sit patiently waiting for the game to start, demanding the the Revs win to make up for all this hassle. Then once again, the onfield product sucks worse than Stumpy on a GOOD day. That pretty much sums up arguably the worst trip to Foxboro ever.

Oh yeah, and one more thing. F-ck you Krafty-balls. Stop jerkin off to Tom Brady and pay attention to "that other team" you own.

[rkupp]

Originally posted by RevsGuy06
I proceed to a small gate entrance, inbetween the far side of the proshop and the ramps leading to the tunnel (a real time saver from the center circle lot) handed the lady my ticket and she pauses and goes "uh, center cirlce members have to enter from the other side of the proshop". What the f-ck. I'm annoyed enough already that i really dont want to walk the perimiter of the stupid PATRIOTS proshop to enter the stadium when I can enter a lot quicker and closer..
Guess you didn't notice the big sign that says "Group Sales" or something like that.



Again, sounds like stupid whining and complaining, but when you think about it, its all an annoying hassle that no dedicated fan who drops loot after loot for this team deserves to deal with.
Agree with your first part here ...

You know, the Revs sent out all the info about the center circle parking plan before the season. It clearly said that the center circle lot is for parking passes only. And people are stunned to find out they can't get it! Read the crap they send you.

It was also absolutely clear that they were changing (improving, IMO) the parking procedures and you "assumed" that some features would stay the same. You know what they say about the word "assume".

Of course when the entertainment value of the product is unsatisfying, then lots of little things seem a lot more aggravating.

[mpruitt]

and what stadium can you bring bags into nowadays? i'm not saying that it sounds like the Kraft's staff can't do a better job of being fan friendly. i'm just saying that all the bitching that goes on around here discourages me from going to Revs games.

[RevsGuy06]

Originally posted by rkupp
Of course when the entertainment value of the product is unsatisfying, then lots of little things seem a lot more aggravating.

Obviously. If the score was reversed saturday and it was the Revs who had won 2-nil, I really wouldnt be complaining. But these little things can get to one's head when the result is nothing short of embarrassing.

[ToMhIlL]

Sure, losing a game like last week (and Columbus before that) can put people in a foul mood, and make what might be a "little annoyance" into something larger, but there are some basic, fundamental things that are still going on that shouldn't.

If there's a policy of no kickarounds in the CC lot (regardless of the fact that you see this all the time in other lots), the attendant should never, ever be "screaming" at someone. Treating people with a shred of dignity and respect can go a long way toward avoiding an incident. If they guy had said something like "Sorry, guys, you can't play here in the CC lot, but if you go over there, it's no problem," he's not likely to get an argument. If he acts in a disrespectful and abusive way, people are going to get upset and possibly argue back. This is perhaps the easiest thing for the Patriots staff to require of their game-day employees, with a simple training session that should be required for anyone working there. But sadly, eight years in to the process, they haven't figured it out.

How far does attendance have to drop before the Patriots management realizes this is an easily correctable area that is costing them money?

Tom

[rkane1226]

Originally posted by rkupp


You know, the Revs sent out all the info about the center circle parking plan before the season. It clearly said that the center circle lot is for parking passes only. And people are stunned to find out they can't get it! Read the crap they send you.


First, I'll stipulate that the Krafts have documented all current policies. That isn't the point to me. The point is the continuing degradation of any season ticket holder benefits.

Second, you are correct. I get alot of crap in the mail (snail and electronic). I can't possibly read it all. So, I'm finding some things out a little later (BTW, most of it is also written on the peice of paper they hand out at the parking turnstyle.)

Third, if we aren't allowed to be upset with a policy simply because they've written it down where will that lead? When we show up and they've put up a sign (or you get a mailing) that says, "All season tickets are no longer valid. No refunds will be given," will you say to yourself, "Hey, they wrote it down so it is okay." I don't think so.

[ToMhIlL]

Seems to me the issue is more of what the benefit is to being a Center Circle "member." I don't care about parking in the "some people are more equal than others" lot, since I tend to mingle after the game anyway. The only real benefit is getting out ahead of the traffic, which can be huge to some people. And then if the other main bennie is that we get to purchase extra tickets at a discount, but "restrictions" apply, well... it reminds me of a comdey skit where some place was selling 10-cent burgers, but if you wanted a bun, it would be extra, or if you wanted a plate/container to put it on, or a napkin, or anything else that you normally would need... it would cost you more than the regular price.

What's next, are they giving away FREE tickets to the Dallas game June 8th, but the catch is, they can't be used any other date? If you want to use them for the day that the game will acutally take place (June 5), well, that will cost you a $25 "handling fee."

I said this in another thread a while ago, but the question the Patriots management needs to ask themselves is how they compare with the season ticket benefits of other MLS teams, not how they compare with the Red Sox, Broons, Celtics, the movies or dinner at l'Espalier.

OK, I'll sit back and wait for the usual suspects...

Tom

[rkane1226]

RE: Bags into other stadia: I got into the Fleet Center in December for a Celtics game without anyone even checking our bag. Since Home Game one I've been asking people that go to Red Sox games. The 5 or 6 people I asked claim to have gotten in with bags or seen others get in with bags. I don't know what the official policy is at either venue.

A season ticket holder gives the REV his money a relatively long time in advance of getting delivery of the product. I paid in december/January but wont get "full delivery" until October. The most obvious perk I get for fronting this money is a discount on the seats and the extra games. My first "more equal" perk. Maybe it should be the only one in some opinions. It is beginning to seem as if it is the only one.

I used to get more perks, now I get fewer perks. I feel like I'm getting less for my money. Am I allowed?

If anyone from the Patriots (err Revolution) cares, I really miss Foxboro stadium. I really miss being able to decide to take my young children the day of the game and getting my ticket discount. I really miss the friendly parking lot, gate, and in stadium atmosphere. I really miss having category two seats that were higher up but nearer midfield instead of on the end-line. I really miss a stadium where I could slide back in my section and find room for that extra kid in the empty seats without having a security guard hassle me about sitting in the seat number on the ticket. I miss having a cap on my water bottle. I miss being able to take a bag in with my kids extra sweatshirts. I miss being, god forbid, able to take a few Capri Suns in since I didn't want the kids drinking soda (I still bought tons of food). I miss being able to go into other sections at half time to talk to friends.

Bucket seats, cup holders and bridges over Rt. 1 are a poor substitute for a really family/fan friendly atmosphere.

[RevKraft]

Originally posted by rkane1226
RE: Bags into other stadia: I got into the Fleet Center in December for a Celtics game without anyone even checking our bag. Since Home Game one I've been asking people that go to Red Sox games. The 5 or 6 people I asked claim to have gotten in with bags or seen others get in with bags. I don't know what the official policy is at either venue.

A season ticket holder gives the REV his money a relatively long time in advance of getting delivery of the product. I paid in december/January but wont get "full delivery" until October. The most obvious perk I get for fronting this money is a discount on the seats and the extra games. My first "more equal" perk. Maybe it should be the only one in some opinions. It is beginning to seem as if it is the only one.

I used to get more perks, now I get fewer perks. I feel like I'm getting less for my money. Am I allowed?

If anyone from the Patriots (err Revolution) cares, I really miss Foxboro stadium. I really miss being able to decide to take my young children the day of the game and getting my ticket discount. I really miss the friendly parking lot, gate, and in stadium atmosphere. I really miss having category two seats that were higher up but nearer midfield instead of on the end-line. I really miss a stadium where I could slide back in my section and find room for that extra kid in the empty seats without having a security guard hassle me about sitting in the seat number on the ticket. I miss having a cap on my water bottle. I miss being able to take a bag in with my kids extra sweatshirts. I miss being, god forbid, able to take a few Capri Suns in since I didn't want the kids drinking soda (I still bought tons of food). I miss being able to go into other sections at half time to talk to friends.

Bucket seats, cup holders and bridges over Rt. 1 are a poor substitute for a really family/fan friendly atmosphere.

Welcome to the new era of sports ownership. The olds days are over and it's all about making $, and frankly Kraft isn't making any on the Revs. If fan turn-out continues to be as it was for the first two matches, we could be in our last year of a Kraft owned soccer team. And your not alone in your complaining ways. I was at the Patriots Draft day party at the Fidellity Clubhouse and spoke to several people who spent $7,000 per seat for Patriots Club Seats. They all complained how Kraft sold them a bill of goods with those tickets. Many promises that never materialized (like a restaurant worthy of taking clients to, and full time access of the club). If fact, Kraft even charged these ticket holders $75 to be at the Draft day party.....and still made them pay $6 for a beer. Now that's a perk!

At least no one paid Krafty to be in those Netside Terrace seats last week! More lost $ on set up, buffett waste, umbrellas, etc. How can Kraft make up for that loss????

[rkupp]

Originally posted by rkane1226
First, I'll stipulate that the Krafts have documented all current policies.
My point wasn't to defend all these policies, it was just to point out that no one should be surprised on game day.

They have more and procedures on game day to try and make things more efficient. These clearly aren't primarily customer-oriented (I'd just as soon have someone tear my ticket in half than to way for them to scan it).

The CC parking deal is a big improvement. Last year, whether you were prepaid or not, you waited in the same traffic with everyone who paid cash, needed change, etc. Now they have a separate lane, and you speed right by and up to the CC lot. That's the reason I got the pass, it certainly wasn't the $3 game savings! The BIG mistake on the team's part is calling it a CC parking lot - it's not, it's a prepaid parking lot.

As for playing ball in the lot, do they have any written rules about that? There's some beautiful turf along the outside of the stadium that I cut across all the time w/o being bothered. I wonder if you'd get booted if you had your pregame kick around there?

[Rev79]

Originally posted by maxim-1
and what stadium can you bring bags into nowadays? i'm not saying that it sounds like the Kraft's staff can't do a better job of being fan friendly. i'm just saying that all the bitching that goes on around here discourages me from going to Revs games.

I attended a game at Giants Stadium last spring, and they have a sign about "No Large Bags", so I had started to get nervous because I had my backpack with me. I asked the security guard if it was OK and he said that it was fine -- they had had problems with people bringing in GARBAGE BAGS full of stuff (mostly to throw at the opposing team). Likewise, I went to RFK for the All-Star game last summer. Again, I had my backpack (no sign there, btw). I went to open it for the guard at the gate and he just laughed and said, "No, that's OK... we don't check bags". [Neither place frisked me either.]

I can even understand checking bags to weed out the contraband (the evil Snickers bars and Juicy Juice) but to set limits on bag size and type is just ridiculous. If Kraft & co is so concerned about a)the content of the bags and b) holding up lines while having to examine the contents, then they should develop a line that people with bags have to go through. That way if people are bringing tons of useless crap, they'll eventually learn to cut down to the bare minimum and people who just want a bag to control their kids sweatshirts and sunscreen can get through the day without having to constantly check around them to make sure that everyone's stuff is still there.

What's with the paranoia, anyhow?

[Jeff]

Originally posted by Rev79


I can even understand checking bags to weed out the contraband (the evil Snickers bars and Juicy Juice) but to set limits on bag size and type is just ridiculous. If Kraft & co is so concerned about a)the content of the bags and b) holding up lines while having to examine the contents, then they should develop a line that people with bags have to go through. That way if people are bringing tons of useless crap, they'll eventually learn to cut down to the bare minimum and people who just want a bag to control their kids sweatshirts and sunscreen can get through the day without having to constantly check around them to make sure that everyone's stuff is still there.

Not that it'd be an issue or anything in Colorado, but they have separate lines for this at Invesco/Mile High. Would never work in NE since it makes too much sense. :D

[TheLimeChicken]

Originally posted by rkane1226

Let's see, game 1 vs. Columbus, I come to the game with 4 sub 12 year old kids (6, 8,11 and 11) and I'm carrying extra sweatshirts and gloves for them in a nylon _REVOLUTION_ duffel bag so that these belongings won't be spread to the wind by the kids (a bag handed out at the stadium sometime in the last couple years). NO ENTRY - YOU MUST THROW THE BAG OUT. A fuss to REV mgt. got me an e-mail whose most positive interpretation is, "Don't bring your kids unless you're sure it is going to be warm and dry."



I'm not defending the Kraft's here, because really they don't deserve my defense, but there was another option other than THROWING THE BAG OUT. Seeing as the security guys are situated about ten feet before the the ticket guys you could always return the bag to your car and then come back to the gate without it.

Compare this to Fenway, where I attend between 20 and 30 games a year. I usually go right from work and up until this season there was no problem with my bringing my briefcase in with me. First game I attended this year, my ticket was taken then the same person told me that no bags, containers, etc. "bigger than a fist" were being allowed into the park this season, but for an extra $20 there was a locker room where I could store it until after the game. At that point, with the ticket already validated my only options were to pony up the twenty bucks or go home....as inconvenientas it would be, you had the option of returning the bag to your car.

Another point I want to make that in a way defends the Kraft's, although again, I don't feel they deserve my defense: Most of the employees that are cited as being nasty or disrespectful or whatever towards us are not actually employees of the Kraft's. Yellow shirted security and ushers are employed by Contemporary Services Co., not the Kraft's, stadium lots are contracted out (the satellite lots of course are privately owned), behind the scenes security is contracted to Apollo Security Company, and I'm not sure how the ticket takers work now but as recently as five years ago it was day-of-game walk up volunteers (I used to do this in high school to get into Pats games for free).

The Kraft's (or whoever they send to do it), have a single preseason meeting with these people where they outline what they expect of them, after that initial meeting there is little to no contact between Kraft management and these hired companied. So when you deal with these people and have a complaint maybe the complaint should be addressed to their supervisors and not to the Kraft's or Rev/Pat management. And if you do talk to someone with the Kraft's and get a concession from them, be sure that they inform their decision to those who are going to enforce it.

I know of the problems between security and the fort last season, when you talk to Mark Briggs (or whoever security director is now) and he says "Ok, you're right, you can stand" what are the chances that message ever got from Mr. Briggs to the CSC supervisors to the CSC workers? Probably not much greater than nil.

So, rather than complain about the Kraft's for every little bit of nastiness that you experience, why not complain the supervisors of these workers. And when you see inconsistencies between something someone with the Kraft's had said and the way things are actually being handled don't take it out on the worker. "Mark Briggs said..." doesn't hold any water unless the message gets down to the lowest levels. So get on the supervisor, or management for not communicating between each other.

[ToMhIlL]

Originally posted by TheLimeChicken
Most of the employees that are cited as being nasty or disrespectful or whatever towards us are not actually employees of the Kraft's. Yellow shirted security and ushers are employed by Contemporary Services Co., not the Kraft's, stadium lots are contracted out (the satellite lots of course are privately owned), behind the scenes security is contracted to Apollo Security Company, and I'm not sure how the ticket takers work now but as recently as five years ago it was day-of-game walk up volunteers (I used to do this in high school to get into Pats games for free).

The Kraft's (or whoever they send to do it), have a single preseason meeting with these people where they outline what they expect of them, after that initial meeting there is little to no contact between Kraft management and these hired companied. So when you deal with these people and have a complaint maybe the complaint should be addressed to their supervisors and not to the Kraft's or Rev/Pat management. And if you do talk to someone with the Kraft's and get a concession from them, be sure that they inform their decision to those who are going to enforce it.

I know of the problems between security and the fort last season, when you talk to Mark Briggs (or whoever security director is now) and he says "Ok, you're right, you can stand" what are the chances that message ever got from Mr. Briggs to the CSC supervisors to the CSC workers? Probably not much greater than nil.

So, rather than complain about the Kraft's for every little bit of nastiness that you experience, why not complain the supervisors of these workers. And when you see inconsistencies between something someone with the Kraft's had said and the way things are actually being handled don't take it out on the worker. "Mark Briggs said..." doesn't hold any water unless the message gets down to the lowest levels. So get on the supervisor, or management for not communicating between each other. Whether a business is employing people directly or sub-contracting it out to another company is irrelevant. The Patriots management has a vested interest in making the game day experience a pleasant one at Revolution games. If people don't feel they are being treated well, they stop coming and they get less revenue. Whether I hire the people directly, or I hire the people who hire and supervise the people on the front line, it is my responsibility to communicate how I want these people to represent my business.

If Mark Briggs or whoever does not instruct the people at Appllo Secutity that he wants things done a certain way, he isn't doing his job. He also needs to be clear to Appollo's managers that anyone not adhering to the client's policies (be polite), will be disciplined or even fired if they persist. And the CSC/Appollo managers should be fired if they don't communicate this to the underlings who make minimum wage.

It's really not that complicated. It's about being accountable and clearly communicating how you want things done.

Tom