Best Central midfielders in the world

[nicephoras]

Carragher has had much more experience in big games, against the best teams in Europe

Whatever your opinion of the two players, that's patently false.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

Carragher's European experience is almost double that of Terry.

[TKORL]

In addition to experience, his actual success on the field is also greater.

[cheeting]

Ugh, Gerrard vs Lampard debate once again.


Are you trying to say Fabregas is the best midfielder in the world? He's really good, I'll grant you that, but not as good as some others. He has an all round game, which is impressive, but Gerrard is better all round. Then there are others, like Pirlo, who are so good at a particular job that they are counted amongst the best players in the world such as Xavi, Scholes, Essien and Gattuso.

Gerrard is a bit inconsistent. Hes different to Cesc. Gerrard is a box to box player. He gets back to defend and joins in the counterattack. Cesc is a deep lying playmaker. Like pirlo, xabi alonso and gago. Though cesc has all round ability.

[United Pumps]

Gerrard inconsistent? :confused:

Cesc is the best all round player of the deep lying playmaker group but others are much better at it than him.

[nicephoras]

In addition to experience, his actual success on the field is also greater.

No, its not.

[nicephoras]

Carragher's European experience is almost double that of Terry.

Carragher's experience against "the best teams in Europe" is not greater than Terry, especially when taking their age into account.

[ForeverRed]

Carragher's experience against "the best teams in Europe" is not greater than Terry, especially when taking their age into account.

What do you mean by that?

Carragher has played against Barca, Chelsea, Milan, Juve etc.

[nicephoras]

What do you mean by that?

Carragher has played against Barca, Chelsea, Milan, Juve etc.

And Terry has played against Barca, Liverpool, Valencia, Arsenal etc. Given that Terry is 5 years younger, he's probably played fewer games in Europe in total, but certainly the experiences over the past 4 years have been comparable.
Of course, Terry has also played against Portugal, Sweden, and other European countries for England, something Carragher hasn't done.

[TKORL]

"And Terry has played against Barca, Liverpool, Valencia, Arsenal"

Out of these, Arsenal and Liverpool are EPL teams, so Carragher has also obviously played against the same EPL teams.

However, that really only leaves Barca and Valencia. When Chelsea played Barca last year, they were soundly beaten, this year, when they played, while Chelsea did win, this was a Barca team that was short of form, confidence, and players. Regarding Valencia, while Chelsea did advance, Terry did not have an outstanding performance in the game. While Villa did not score, he was incapable of handling Silva and Morientes (valencia's in form players at the time)


Now Carragher - two European finals, this year they knocked out a Barca team in a later stage of the competition (by which time they had Messi and Eto'o back), and also played very well against Milan.

Terry has again, never stood out against top level opposition in Europe.

As for his international experience...I remember his outstanding games this World Cup....no wait...I don't.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

Carragher's experience against "the best teams in Europe" is not greater than Terry, especially when taking their age into account.

I disagree. So do the facts.

[yasik19]

For me, Gerrard and Carragher are streets ahead as players in the Premier League

streets ahead....interesting. :rolleyes:

[nicephoras]

"And Terry has played against Barca, Liverpool, Valencia, Arsenal"

Out of these, Arsenal and Liverpool are EPL teams, so Carragher has also obviously played against the same EPL teams.

However, that really only leaves Barca and Valencia. When Chelsea played Barca last year, they were soundly beaten, this year, when they played, while Chelsea did win, this was a Barca team that was short of form, confidence, and players. Regarding Valencia, while Chelsea did advance, Terry did not have an outstanding performance in the game. While Villa did not score, he was incapable of handling Silva and Morientes (valencia's in form players at the time)

Now Carragher - two European finals, this year they knocked out a Barca team in a later stage of the competition (by which time they had Messi and Eto'o back), and also played very well against Milan.

Its remarkable the level of self serving nonsense in that post. The Barcelona side that faced Liverpool was playing their worst football in 3 years. Whereas Barcelona were in excellent form when they faced Chelsea earlier in the season (off to a great start in La Liga, actually). Chelsea weren't "well beaten" by Barcelona two years ago - they lost to a goal on aggregate after playing down a man for 60 minutes at home (that's not impressive? lol). They also beat Barcelona the year before (on a goal by....John Terry!), and Bayern Munich.
Chelsea couldn't handle David Silva? I must have been at a different match. Chelsea were clearly the better side at home and away and Silva's shot was a long range effort from miles away that had nothing to do with Terry marking him. As for Carragher's amazing performance in finals - they conceded 3 goals against Milan the first time around and it was Carragher who was as much to blame as anyone else for that lazy offside trap against Pippo in the second final.
But if we are going to talk about the same EPL sides - OK. Carragher has been eaten alive by Henry repeatedly. The year that Arsenal were unbeaten in the league Carragher was simply awful against Arsenal. Whereas, at the same time, Chelsea helped dump Arsenal (at the time on an absolutely amazing run of form) out of the Champions League. Terry has played VASTLY better against EPL sides, as his superior haul of trophies indicates.

Terry has again, never stood out against top level opposition in Europe.

Actually, he has as much as Carragher; arguably more. In two Champions League finals that Carragher has played in Liverpool have conceded an average of 2.5 goals. Amazing!

As for his international experience...I remember his outstanding games this World Cup....no wait...I don't.

Funny, I do. England's problem was scoring goals, not conceding them. Zero goals conceded against Portugal as I recall. He also didn't miss a penalty against Portugal.

Both are great players, but your post is just amazingly bad.

[nicephoras]

I disagree. So do the facts.

Actually no, they don't. Not that you've presented any.

[nicephoras]

For me, Gerrard and Carragher are streets ahead as players in the Premier League

The same John Terry and Frank Lampard who've finished first or second in the EPL for the past 4 years? And the same Carragher that still hasn't figured out how to contain Henry? Of the same Liverpool that finished fifth the same year they won the CL? Better EPL players? I could at least somewhat entertain the notion that Carragher is a better player in Europe (though the evidence for that is quite scant) but better EPL players? There is absolutely no way to make that argument.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

I do love your defense of Chelsea players. If you honestly believe what you do in regard to Terry/Carragher then present your facts.

[ForeverRed]

And Terry has played against Barca, Liverpool, Valencia, Arsenal etc. Given that Terry is 5 years younger, he's probably played fewer games in Europe in total, but certainly the experiences over the past 4 years have been comparable.
Of course, Terry has also played against Portugal, Sweden, and other European countries for England, something Carragher hasn't done.

Just because he hasn't played for the NT like Terry has doesn't mean he wouldn't be good at it. I'm sure you know the BS behind the English NT. Carragher deserved to start plenty of times and didn't. Can't take anything away from him because of that.

Plus, I love how you use the 3 goals from Milan in 2005 to criticise Carragher when in fact he had a brilliant game that night. He was one of the main reasons Liverpool held on to go to penalties.

[nicephoras]

Carragher deserved to start plenty of times and didn't. Can't take anything away from him because of that.

1. Why does Carragher "deserve" to start? Why does he deserve to over Rio or Terry? He certainly didn't over Sol in his prime.
2. No one's taking anything away from Carragher.

[nicephoras]

I do love your defense of Chelsea players. If you honestly believe what you do in regard to Terry/Carragher then present your facts.

You claimed the facts disagree. I await the support for your contention.

Now then, where was that post where last year you claimed Wes Brown should start for England over John Terry? I do so love that particular nugget.

[Walter3000]

Sure you can, if we're talking big game experience, it has to be taken into account. Sorry, if Carragher had impressed more than JT, he would have earned his shot, but it's Terry captaining England, and Jamie C. watching.