Best Central midfielders in the world

[phil80]

Not to mention the fact that if a talent demands that teams the calibre of Argentina, Italy and Milan accomodate them so as to get the best out of them (and they perform accordingly), accusing them of 'needing' a system becomes a moot point, IMO.
Barca did not do this for Riquelme, and he became useless in their system. They didn't set up the team around him to flourish and he became unproductive. Iniesta accomadates to his teams including Spain and Barca (sometimes playing DM) and thats why i would prefer him or Gerrard. That does not mean Iniesta is necessarily more talented than pirlo, riquelme, just that he doesnt come with that extra baggage.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

Deco has been excellent for a while now....

Deco was fairly average for most of last season.

[TKORL]

Not to mention the fact that if a talent demands that teams the calibre of Argentina, Italy and Milan accomodate them so as to get the best out of them (and they perform accordingly), accusing them of 'needing' a system becomes a moot point, IMO.
That has much more to do with the coach's tactical decisions rather than being a direct reflection of their talent.

[TKORL]

Deco was fairly average for most of last season.
And before that he was pretty damn good.

[schafer]

That has much more to do with the coach's tactical decisions rather than being a direct reflection of their talent.

And the coach's tactical decisions are based on the talent at his disposal, no? So if a coach or coaches decides to set up his/their system to 'fit' a player like Pirlo and make him a key in 2 extremely successful teams (Italy, Milan) then I see that as a reflection of Pirlo's talent.

[The Biscuitman]

Fat Frank gets booed by England fans yet again today

[TKORL]

And the coach's tactical decisions are based on the talent at his disposal, no? So if a coach or coaches decides to set up his/their system to 'fit' a player like Pirlo and make him a key in 2 extremely successful teams (Italy, Milan) then I see that as a reflection of Pirlo's talent.
So if Mourinho doesn't regularly start Ballack in the CAM role regularly, is Mourinho a poor coach, or Ballack untalented?

[schafer]

So if Mourinho doesn't regularly start Ballack in the CAM role regularly, is Mourinho a poor coach, or Ballack untalented?

In that case, there's already a player (Lampard) who has been a talisman for the side in that role for 3-4 seasons and knows the league inside and out, so it's neither, IMO. Ballack's a bad example in any case I would think, as he's not 'specialized' like Pirlo or Riquelme and doesn't require the team to be built around him per se, as he can play several roles in the centre of midfield.

[TKORL]

Riquelme doesn't need the team built around him.

[CCSC_STRIKER20]

Riquelme doesn't need the team built around him.

He's not consistent. And what was the deal with him going back to Argentina anyways? Attitude? Fitness?

[TKORL]

The problem is really Riquelme-dependency rather than Riquelme. It's better if the team isn't "built" around him, and uses him as one of the key players rather than being the heart and soul.

[Dr. Know]

Riquelme doesn't need the team built around him.

But he does tend to play within a certian system and there are specific types of players that fit best into that system.

At Barca not only was the system not fit for him he was also played out of position as a wide midfielder which isn't his role and asks other things of him.

As for the other guy who asked, he went back to Argentina because he had a falling out with Villarreal's coach and wasn't getting any playing time. So Boca bought him on loan and he hit incredible form (helping Boca win the Libertadores and finish second in the league) which has pretty much lasted from that time up to know considering he just scored two incredible free kick goals.

It's pretty criminal that he's not getting regular playing time at a club considering the form he's been in for the past year or so.

[Paul_NL]

Picking mattigol over JRR is a bad joke

I hope McLaren picks Gerrard - Barry again. Eventhough I like Lampard, he can´t play with Gerrard

As far as I concerned it should be

Gerrard or Lampard
Carrick or Barry

[TKORL]

In that case, there's already a player (Lampard) who has been a talisman for the side in that role for 3-4 seasons and knows the league inside and out, so it's neither, IMO. Ballack's a bad example in any case I would think, as he's not 'specialized' like Pirlo or Riquelme and doesn't require the team to be built around him per se, as he can play several roles in the centre of midfield.
Another example, if Ancelotti (IIRC) doesn't use Thierry Henry as a striker is he a bad coach?

[schafer]

Another example, if Ancelotti (IIRC) doesn't use Thierry Henry as a striker is he a bad coach?

Considering all that Henry's accomplished (obviously, hindsight is 20/20) then I would say that in that situation, Ancelotti made a bad decision as a coach.

[Glavisted Big Soccer]

1. Kaká
2. Steven Gerrard
3. Francesco Totti
4. Paul Scholes
5. Andrea Pirlo

[JumpinJackFlash]

Considering all that Henry's accomplished (obviously, hindsight is 20/20) then I would say that in that situation, Ancelotti made a bad decision as a coach.

A lot is made out of the whole Henry playing out of position at Juve thing and that being a huge mistake in the club's history, but a year after he left, David Trezeguet moved in and became one of the club's all-time topscorers instead... so Juve fans aren't losing any sleep over Henry. ;)

[Moishe]

Barca did not do this for Riquelme, and he became useless in their system. They didn't set up the team around him to flourish and he became unproductive. Iniesta accomadates to his teams including Spain and Barca (sometimes playing DM) and thats why i would prefer him or Gerrard. That does not mean Iniesta is necessarily more talented than pirlo, riquelme, just that he doesnt come with that extra baggage.

What is this extra baggage you keep talking about?

That has much more to do with the coach's tactical decisions rather than being a direct reflection of their talent.

I don't think it's a question of talent rather than a maturity to read and react to the game that makes Argentina dependent on Riquelme.

And the coach's tactical decisions are based on the talent at his disposal, no? So if a coach or coaches decides to set up his/their system to 'fit' a player like Pirlo and make him a key in 2 extremely successful teams (Italy, Milan) then I see that as a reflection of Pirlo's talent.

The age old question, system over player or player over system.

So if Mourinho doesn't regularly start Ballack in the CAM role regularly, is Mourinho a poor coach, or Ballack untalented?

Mourinho is a good coach no question but with the talent Chelsea have bought up didn't you expect more from the team? I'll acknowledge that they've been a damn good team but not really the most dominant club team in the world.

Riquelme doesn't need the team built around him.

I agree that Riquelme doesn't need the team built around him. However Argentina needs the team built around him for now. No question about the talent but you've got to remember the Argentine squad is young and have to show they can play without him. Something they haven't done a good job of in recent years.

He's not consistent. And what was the deal with him going back to Argentina anyways? Attitude? Fitness?

He's not consistent and I'm not stoned:rolleyes:

The problem is really Riquelme-dependency rather than Riquelme. It's better if the team isn't "built" around him, and uses him as one of the key players rather than being the heart and soul.

I'd argue that BOCA during his first stint were not built around Riquelme as was the squad that just won the Libertadores. The players were in place before Roman he just kinda dropped back into his role and the rest is history.

Another example, if Ancelotti (IIRC) doesn't use Thierry Henry as a striker is he a bad coach?

Did Henry leaving Juve hurt the team?

Considering all that Henry's accomplished (obviously, hindsight is 20/20) then I would say that in that situation, Ancelotti made a bad decision as a coach.

Did he? How much silverware did Henry leaving cost Juve?

A lot is made out of the whole Henry playing out of position at Juve thing and that being a huge mistake in the club's history, but a year after he left, David Trezeguet moved in and became one of the club's all-time topscorers instead... so Juve fans aren't losing any sleep over Henry. ;)

Agreed

[schafer]

A lot is made out of the whole Henry playing out of position at Juve thing and that being a huge mistake in the club's history, but a year after he left, David Trezeguet moved in and became one of the club's all-time topscorers instead... so Juve fans aren't losing any sleep over Henry. ;)


Did he? How much silverware did Henry leaving cost Juve?


I was referring more to the fact that Henry was played as a winger, no? Whereas had he been played as a striker like at Arsenal, Ancellotti might have gotten more out of him. Obviously within the grand scheme of things, a club with the resources and pulling power of Juventus is going to be hurt far less missing out on a Thierry Henry when they can bring in another exceptionally talented player in his place in the form of Trezeguet.

[Moishe]

I was referring more to the fact that Henry was played as a winger, no? Whereas had he been played as a striker like at Arsenal, Ancellotti might have gotten more out of him. Obviously within the grand scheme of things, a club with the resources and pulling power of Juventus is going to be hurt far less missing out on a Thierry Henry when they can bring in another exceptionally talented player in his place in the form of Trezeguet.

True you were referring to his positioning but in fairness, what guarantees are there that had he been played as a striker in Juve he would have gottent the same results as Arsenal?