Suarez to Uruguay (kinda)

[GoDC]

Originally posted by SamPierron
And Nick Garcia's better than Broome or Bocanegra. Quite a choice we'll have on our hands.

I think you are half right there. Nick better than Boca, I think not.

[str8ruckus]

What about Chris Gbandi? I'm sure he'll make a case for a defensive spot also.

[ElJefe]

Originally posted by str8ruckus
What about Chris Gbandi? I'm sure he'll make a case for a defensive spot also.
Well, let him actually play a few games as a professional before we start penciling him at left back.

(Which amused me about the whole "Onyewu would own the right back one" statement earlier.)

[Eric B]

Originally posted by ElJefe

Well, let him actually play a few games as a professional before we start penciling him at left back.

spoil sport

[Bruce S]

Originally posted by ElJefe

Translation:

He's smart, but he's not going to listen to the "behind the scenes" dirt from a teammate but instead go with the most shallow analysis that any idiot on BigSoccer could come up with.
come on- so Kreis wasn't chosen? Do you think Suarez is such a dumb-shite that he wouldn't factor that into any bitterness Kreis might show. Your comments make the US team sound like a local U-12 squad!Players are chosen and not chosen every day. Players are mad about choices every day-this is part of the sport.

[anderson]

Another issue for Ryan may be how he's received by the Uruguayan players, press, and fans. People in la Republica Oriental are fiercely nationalistic and may wonder why one of their favorite local boys may lose a spot to a guy named Ryan from California. It also won't help his cause if he has an accent.

All in all, it's probably not a critical issue, but could help tilt his thinking if he feels unwelcome.

[Viking64]

Originally posted by Bruce S
come on- so Kreis wasn't chosen? Do you think Suarez is such a dumb-shite that he wouldn't factor that into any bitterness Kreis might show. Your comments make the US team sound like a local U-12 squad!Players are chosen and not chosen every day. Players are mad about choices every day-this is part of the sport.

The issue simple; Kreis had "bad luck" with the national team. Bruce started his tenure with "if you produce in MLS, you'll be strongly considered for the national team." Well, that turned out to be only half true. If you are Chris Albright, you were. Or ABMOD. Or a few others. Whatever you want to call it, let's just agree to call it "bad luck" for this discussion.

So,,,, Suarez is starting in MLS, playing well and getting enough support from fans to make the All-Star game from a no-owner team in the sticks. He's played great games for the Burn and proved he's indispensable to the Burn. For a defender, he's done very well. Now, suppose he suffers the same "bad luck" that Kreis got. Except Ryan doesn't have to suffer this "bad luck" the same way. He can go play for someone else. If he does well, he'll jack his salary because anyone that can start for Uruguay can probably start for Udinese, Parma, Energie Cottbus, Celta Vigo, or Newcastle. He makes dirt money now, but two good games for Uruguay, and he's going to be offered real money. And, he'll be on the Unified Calendar, so travel from Europe is less an issue.

So he has TWO reasons not to accept his "back luck" in quite the same way that Kreis has: one, he can play for his national team in CONMEBOL qualifiers in front of anywhere from 50-120,000 fans, be adored and loved. And, then he can leave MLS and pull down high six figures somewhere in Europe.

That said, I think Bruce will call him up, intends to cap him, and it's good for MLS and the USSF. But "back luck" can happen. That's all I'm saying, until he's capped.

And Sam, Nick Garcia is what Paul Broome was, in Broome's rookie year.

[Martin Fischer]

Originally posted by Viking64

The issue simple; Kreis had "bad luck" with the national team.

What bad luck are you talking about? Kreis produced in MLS so Bruce Arena gave him some looks. After those looks, Arena concluded that Mathis, Wolff, McBride, Donovan, Stewart, Razov and even Joe Max Moore and Jovan Kirovski were more productive players at the more difficult international level. One billion MLS points is not going to change that.

Originally posted by Viking64

...

So,,,, Suarez is starting in MLS, playing well and getting enough support from fans to make the All-Star game from a no-owner team in the sticks. He's played great games for the Burn and proved he's indispensable to the Burn. For a defender, he's done very well. Now, suppose he suffers the same "bad luck" that Kreis got. Except Ryan doesn't have to suffer this "bad luck" the same way. He can go play for someone else. If he does well, he'll jack his salary because anyone that can start for Uruguay can probably start for Udinese, Parma, Energie Cottbus, Celta Vigo, or Newcastle. He makes dirt money now, but two good games for Uruguay, and he's going to be offered real money. And, he'll be on the Unified Calendar, so travel from Europe is less an issue.

Well, if Suarez suffers from the same "bad luck" as Kreis -- namely he is given a shot and is not as good as the other options -- Uruguay can have him.

And, a large number of Uruguay's World Cup defenders played in Uruguay, so you are getting a little overheated about the economic upside for Suarez, though it is better than being a USMNT player for sure.

Do all Burn fans really think that BA made a huge mistake and if we had just used Kreis instead of those stiffs McBride and Donovan, the US would have won the World Cup?

[ignatz]

Originally posted by passtheblizz
Here's the deal. For 2006 I see Bocanegra, Sanneh, Mastroeini and Suarez playing as our back four, with Pablo essentially a D-mid. All of these guys are fast and aggressive, and Sanneh has shown that he deserves to be our main defensive force. Pope is already pretty much done, I think, and doesn't really want to play in 2006. Just my opinion based on his comments prior to K/J.

I didn't pick up Pope's comments, but both he and Sanneh will be getting a little close to gray hair in 2006, particularly Sanneh who is the older of the pair, by 2 and a half years. Eddie was born in December 1973, which would make him 32.5 in the summer of 2006; Tony was born in June 1971, which would make him 35 in the summer of '06.

Tony had such a great Cup this time, and he may just have enough left, plus savvy, to cut it, but 35 seems to be pushing it. Eddie has been plagued by injuries. He still his.

Let's hope Bruce is nice to Suarez. We need new, young defenders.

[Red Card]

If my memory is correct, the origination of BA not giving Kreis a fair shake had to do with Kreis' Duke team knocking UVa out of the NCAA in BA's last year. But to be fair to BA, Kreis did stink in his chances. I think he should get another look sometime because of his success in MLS.

[ElJefe]

Originally posted by Red Card
If my memory is correct, the origination of BA not giving Kreis a fair shake had to do with Kreis' Duke team knocking UVa out of the NCAA in BA's last year.
As the story was told to me, it was because Kreis snubbed Arena and went to Duke in the first place.
But to be fair to BA, Kreis did stink in his chances.
Honestly, do you think he's had much of a shot? Since Il Bruce got the job, here are Jason Kreis' "golden" opportunities:

9/8/99 at Jamaica: Started, played 45 minutes, scored a goal

11/17/99 at Morocco: Entered at the 59th minute for a USA "B" side

3/12/00 vs. Tunisia: Played 90 minutes with a USA "B" side.

4/26/00 at Russia: Entered at the 74th minute.

6/3/00 vs. South Africa: Entered at the 84th minute

6/6/00 vs. Ireland: Started, played 65 minutes with a USA "B" side in a driving rain

7/23/00 at Costa Rica: Entered at the 87th and got booked. Incidentally, this is the one and only match of any significance in which Kreis has played under Il Bruce.

Jovan Kirovski has pissed away more opportunities than Kreis has even been given. I guess it pays to sit on some of Europe's finest benches than to be a consistent performer in MLS, no matter what Il Bruce says.
I think he should get another look sometime because of his success in MLS.
You would think so. But success in MLS hasn't translated into too many good opportunities for Kreis yet.

[ElJefe]

Originally posted by Martin Fischer
What bad luck are you talking about?
You know, "bad luck."
Kreis produced in MLS so Bruce Arena gave him some looks. After those looks, Arena concluded that Mathis, Wolff, McBride, Donovan, Stewart, Razov and even Joe Max Moore and Jovan Kirovski were more productive players at the more difficult international level.
And such wonderful looks they were. I'm sure that those six minutes against South Africa in 2000 told him literally volumes about Kreis' ability. Or maybe the three minutes in Costa Rica.

Yessirree, Bruce has really given Kreis a really good look in those 256 minutes in seven matches.
One billion MLS points is not going to change that.
Trust us: That much has become clear by this point. All that clap-trap that Brucie gave us about starting and performing for your club? Frankly, it sounds good, but ain't exactly the truth.
Well, if Suarez suffers from the same "bad luck" as Kreis -- namely he is given a shot and is not as good as the other options -- Uruguay can have him.
Frankly, if he has the same "bad luck" as Kreis, I don't think we'll be able to say definitively whether he's as good as the other options.
And, a large number of Uruguay's World Cup defenders played in Uruguay, so you are getting a little overheated about the economic upside for Suarez, though it is better than being a USMNT player for sure.
Indeed.
Do all Burn fans really think that BA made a huge mistake and if we had just used Kreis instead of those stiffs McBride and Donovan, the US would have won the World Cup?
I was waiting for this canard.

You know, "reading comprehension" is a wonderful thing. I think that if you had more emphasis on this "reading comprehension" business, you would've noted that not one Burn fan had made that argument yet.

But that's neither here nor there. Do I think that Brucie "made a huge mistake and if we had just used Kreis instead of those stiffs McBride and Donovan, the US would have won the World Cup?" The answer to that question is "I don't know," because I don't think that Brucie ever gave Kreis an adequate opportunity to show whether or not he belonged with the USMNT.

[Martin Fischer]

Originally posted by ElJefe

You know, "bad luck."


I understand the words. My question is what bad luck did Kreis have? The bad luck to do something stupid in his 3 minutes in Costa Rica? Or the bad luck to have a coach as astute as Bruce Arena who could see that Kreis, with as many wonderful skills that he has, has a fundamental flaw in his game that makes him ineffective at the higher level.


Originally posted by ElJefe

And such wonderful looks they were. I'm sure that those six minutes against South Africa in 2000 told him literally volumes about Kreis' ability. Or maybe the three minutes in Costa Rica.

Well those are not the only appearances Kreis made under Arena as you point out. Plus his multiple appearances under Sampson. And more importantly, Kreis got into a lot of camps. That was Kreis' chance to impress and get more game time, and obviously, not surprisingly to those with discerning eyes, he didn't impress.


Originally posted by ElJefe

Yessirree, Bruce has really given Kreis a really good look in those 256 minutes in seven matches.

Sorry, if you want to play for the Nats you do something with those 256 minutes. All MLS got him was a foot in camp. The rest was up to Kreis.

Originally posted by ElJefe

Trust us: That much has become clear by this point. All that clap-trap that Brucie gave us about starting and performing for your club? Frankly, it sounds good, but ain't exactly the truth.

You spoke about reading comprehension below. BA never promised to field the MLS all-star game. All BA said is that MLS will get you in the door. In other words MLS gets you into camp, camp gets you into games and good performances get you more time.

Originally posted by ElJefe

Frankly, if he has the same "bad luck" as Kreis, I don't think we'll be able to say definitively whether he's as good as the other options.


Well "we" might not know "definitively", but I doubt Bruce Arena will have any problem determining if Suarez has a fundamental flaw in his game like Kreis (his lack of any type of athletic ability -- speed, strength, height makes it impossible for him to get time on the ball at the international level). He is smarter than us when it comes to talent evaluation and he has the benefit of watching Kreis in camp, which we don't.


Originally posted by ElJefe

You know, "reading comprehension" is a wonderful thing. I think that if you had more emphasis on this "reading comprehension" business, you would've noted that not one Burn fan had made that argument yet.

Surely you understand the concept of the rhetorical question. ... In other words, my question should not be read to imply that anyone said such a thing. On the other hand, see below.

Originally posted by ElJefe

But that's neither here nor there. Do I think that Brucie "made a huge mistake and if we had just used Kreis instead of those stiffs McBride and Donovan, the US would have won the World Cup?" The answer to that question is "I don't know," because I don't think that Brucie ever gave Kreis an adequate opportunity to show whether or not he belonged with the USMNT.

The fact that you answer "I don't know" means -- and this is reading comprehension in action -- that it is possible that you think Kreis is better than those guys. OK, this is just an opinion, but I think you are nuts.

[Shaster]

Is Kreis better than Ante Razov?

No way. Ante scored the first goal in qualifying, and second game Stewart scored from a rebound off his shoot. Then he showed good as sub in Jamaica game then when he started the next game, he scored against T&T. Put a word, Ante performed when he got any limited chances, but he still DOES NOT make the US team.

Case rest.

[superdave]

Originally posted by Viking64
Bruce started his tenure with "if you produce in MLS, you'll be strongly considered for the national team."
There was a thread about this elusive quote that got lost in the crash.

I'm 99% sure that the quote was the inverse...that a player wouldn't be considered for the Nats unless he was a standout on his MLS team. Mediocre MLSers need not apply. (I'm not saying Kreis fits that category.)

Or is that the obverse? I know it's not the reverse.

[Red Card]

Originally posted by Shaster
Is Kreis better than Ante Razov?

No way. Ante scored the first goal in qualifying, and second game Stewart scored from a rebound off his shoot. Then he showed good as sub in Jamaica game then when he started the next game, he scored against T&T. Put a word, Ante performed when he got any limited chances, but he still DOES NOT make the US team.

Case rest.

Razov was an alternate along with Kirovski because BA picked JMM over them in one of his "difficult" decisions. That had nothing to do with Kreis.
Why he picked JMM may have had to do with clutch performances in WCQ, WC experience, and the ability to be a ball winner when we are protecting a lead.

As a club player, I would take Kreis over Razov easily.

[Elninho]

Originally posted by BerwynBlazers
OMG GET FREDDY ADU CAPPED RIGHT NOW!

Adu for right back!!!

[Red Card]

Suarez may be good enough for the nats, but the Burn also has this winger Martinez that is a lot like DMB. He is coming into his own and he is only 25.

[Sandon Mibut]

Originally posted by Red Card
Suarez may be good enough for the nats, but the Burn also has this winger Martinez that is a lot like DMB. He is coming into his own and he is only 25.
He's also not a US citizen.

Martinez has a Green Card and he's lived in the US for about 10 years, so he should be close to citizenship, if he wants it, but right now, the only country he's eligible to play for is Mexico.

As for on the field, Martinez is great going forward but his defense isn't nearly as good as Beasley's. Not saying he couldn't play at the national team level - I think he's worth a look - but he's not a lock like Suarez is.

But, until he becomes a citizen the deabte is moot unless you want to debate whether he's good enough for El Tri.

[Noah Dahl]

Originally posted by Martin Fischer
Or the bad luck to have a coach as astute as Bruce Arena who could see that Kreis, with as many wonderful skills that he has, has a fundamental flaw in his game that makes him ineffective at the higher level.


Your case here seems to be depending heavily on the simple notion that "Bruce knows better." That Kreis's quality did not command more time.

Two names off the top of my head destroy this contention. One Jefe mentioned: Jovan Friggin' Kirovski. Here's another: David Friggin' Regis.

At what point did the astute, discerning eye decide that David Regis was ineffective?

Bruce did great, but his judgment is far from infallible. Nor is he some paragon of fairness.

Kreis hasn't had a fair crack. He did not get what he deserved, though it's maybe a moot point now.

For Suarez, this is a timely discussion.