Why are we talking about England thread? [R]

[squidward123]

I do believe that Helmes, if he can get over the injuries, has the potential to be another Klose/Klinsmann type striker.

However, that potential alone should not be enough to get him on the national team.


it's good to see people here not hyping up or overrating young german players.

when i read bbc 606, most of the time people call young english players world class after a few decent games in the EPL.

gets quite annoying

[footyfan1]

it's good to see people here not hyping up or overrating young german players.

when i read bbc 606, most of the time people call young english players world class after a few decent games in the EPL.

gets quite annoying


Which is exactly why the English team crumbles under overwhelming pressure at every major tourney.

I don't think any international fan is more unrealistic about the true state of their football talent and team than England fans.

[squidward123]

Which is exactly why the English team crumbles under overwhelming pressure at every major tourney.

I don't think any international fan is more unrealistic about the true state of their football talent and team than England fans.

absolutely agree.

or maybe....."world class" for them is just a way of saying "good"? lol

i think it was really brought into common use by the sky sports pundits who began to rate everyone who did ok in the EPL as world class on the premise that the EPL is "da best league in da world"

[footyfan1]

absolutely agree.

or maybe....."world class" for them is just a way of saying "good"? lol

i think it was really brought into common use by the sky sports pundits who began to rate everyone who did ok in the EPL as world class on the premise that the EPL is "da best league in da world"


Well, I actually agree that the EPL is the best league in the world, but all of it's best players are foreigners.......

[ForeverRed]

Well, I actually agree that the EPL is the best league in the world, but all of it's best players are foreigners.......

To a certain extent but there are players like Carragher, Gerrard, Terry, Lampard, Lennon and Downing and a couple more who aren't foreigners.

[arthur d]

Some of you guys need to stop reading the Sun and spend time in England and speak to real English fans (and I mean not the English equivalent of PileD). You'd realise how silly you sound with all this overrating nonsense. For the 1234th time, you are judging England by their equivalent of Bild.

BTW ForeverRed, you forgot Rooney.

Having said this, many English people I know think the top players are Ronaldo, Drogba, Essien right now.

[squidward123]

arthur I don't get my info from the sun or mirror or any other tabloid.

It's from the hundreds of posts i've read on 606 (whether they're the english equivalents of PileD or not, I don't know).
I'd say about 60% of english posters overrate their players vastly, so thats still 40% - a big number - who are realistic.


The other source is general implications of comments from media outlets such as bskyb.

Of course you living in england might get to talk to a different demographic of whom the majority might be realistic. So just keep in mind my sources when you read my statement.

[arthur d]

Of course you living in england might get to talk to a different demographic of whom the majority might be realistic. So just keep in mind my sources when you read my statement.

That's fair enough, but shouldn't you stop posting these general accusations about English football fans then, if you realise that you're not really in a position to judge it? Come over here, talk to people in pubs, read decent English newspapers for a while, and then comment again. In the meantime, your posts about England are, excuse me, bollocks.

[squidward123]

Ok, then I won't say such things again, and if I do, I'll make a comment with your observations added in with mine.

So does the same verdict from you go for footyfan's statement here? :


I don't think any international fan is more unrealistic about the true state of their football talent and team than England fans.

[arthur d]

Ok, then I won't say such things again, and if I do, I'll make a comment with your observations added in with mine.

So does the same verdict from you go for footyfan's statement here? :

I believe footyfan's judgement of English fans is mostly based on people who work for their army, so on average people with worse education and higher probability to be stupid nationalists.

Anyway post what you want, I just find it irritating that it doesn't reflect my experiences here in the UK at all.

[squidward123]

Anyway post what you want, I just find it irritating that it doesn't reflect my experiences here in the UK at all.

No don't be irritated. In future I'll keep in mind what you said if I make another statement on that topic.

Ok, having lived in both england and germany, do you think that if you take it overall, that more people in germany tend to be realistic (and even talk down) their players than the number of people who are realistic in england?

That is the impression that I get.

[The Old Lady Hertha]

I tend to agree with arthur. Most England fans know that they have good individual players that fail to gel in time for a major tournament.

[footyfan1]

I believe footyfan's judgement of English fans is mostly based on people who work for their army, so on average people with worse education and higher probability to be stupid nationalists.

Actually, I have more contact with the common English football fan and reporters than I do with the Army. The last major contact I had with the British Army was back in the 90s.

What I typed was my experiences with English football fans there in England, here in Germany and in other places such as Rome, Milan and Prague.

Granted, I haven't been back to the UK since my return to Europe, but before I left, I was there quite often.

Not a resident like you, but I think there often enough to form my own opinion.



Anyway post what you want, I just find it irritating that it doesn't reflect my experiences here in the UK at all.

We all have different experiences, even in the same places. However, I'd be more apt to go with your opinion here. After all, I'm the one who thought England had a real shot this past summer and my friend Baz in Manchester told me to put down the crack pipe!! LOL!! :D

[squidward123]

I tend to agree with arthur. Most England fans know that they have good individual players that fail to gel in time for a major tournament.

mate, I just don't subsribe to the idea that you can have good individual players who look bad in a team.

where do they look good then? In a room by themselves kicking the ball and juggling it alone?

not being able to "gel" is not a good reason. the best players know how to work it out just by playing alongside each other a few games and on the training field. let alone years together like the england guys have had right?


the only good individual players you can get are the ones who contribute really well using their skills for a team, and "come together" really well on the field. that's what the point of football is right? - to do it on the field.

i think the good individual player stuff is stuff that's a product of media hype of players. So we think of their media profile in ads and hype etc when we think of them and come to conclusion that they're a great individual player, rather than what they can actually contribute to on the field.

[footyfan1]

mate, I just don't subsribe to the idea that you can have good individual players who look bad in a team.

where do they look good then? In a room by themselves kicking the ball and juggling it alone?

not being able to "gel" is not a good reason. the best players know how to work it out just by playing alongside each other a few games and on the training field. let alone years together like the england guys have had right?


the only good individual players you can get are the ones who contribute really well to a team and "come together" really well on the field. that's what the point of football is right? - to do it on the field.



I understand what TOLH means. Sometimes the best individuals just can't come together as a team. That's why you have guys like David Odonkor playing a role on the German national team. He's not the best "individual" for that position, but he fits the needs of the team the best.

I think you have the greatest examples of the best individuals not always making the best "teams" in Madrid and London (Chelsea) right at this moment.

Hell, look at Lucio and van Buyten in the Bayern central defense. Individually, two great players. Can't work together for shit.......

[squidward123]

I think you have the greatest examples of the best individuals not always making the best "teams" in Madrid and London (Chelsea) right at this moment.

Hell, look at Lucio and van Buyten in the Bayern central defense. Individually, two great players. Can't work together for shit.......

yeah but we've only established that they're great players because of what they have done as a part of previous TEAMS right?

(Ie. If you take the lucio and van buyten example, it means that they each "worked together" with their previous defensive partner in previous TEAM. So that's how we got to call them 2 great players. If this current bayern team was the starting point of our observations of lucio and VB then we'd never call them great players would we? Just trying to show that great players are only established as such when they perform as a part of a winning team/combination)

or even the current TEAM when they were playing better previously.

Anyway, just my thoughts..

[The Old Lady Hertha]

Best case of point: Lampard and Gerrard. I'd have one of them in my team and Hertha would be maybe the best team in Germany. But together...Hertha would be quite a disfunctional team :p

[footyfan1]

Best case of point: Lampard and Gerrard. I'd have one of them in my team and Hertha would be maybe the best team in Germany. But together...Hertha would be quite a disfunctional team :p


Exactly! Or even now. Lampard and Ballack!! :)

[footyfan1]

yeah but we've only established that they're great players because of what they have done as a part of previous TEAMS right?

(Ie. If you take the lucio and van buyten example, it means that they each "worked together" with their previous defensive partner in previous TEAM. So that's how we got to call them 2 great players. If this current bayern team was the starting point of our observations of lucio and VB then we'd never call them great players would we? Just trying to show that great players are only established as such when they perform as a part of a winning team/combination)

or even the current TEAM when they were playing better previously.

Anyway, just my thoughts..


I think I know what you mean, but you were kind of all over the board there and really doesn't make sense since we're discussing a team sport. Everyone becomes 'great' as part of a team. There's no other way to do it.

[squidward123]

Exactly! Or even now. Lampard and Ballack!! :)

there's no problem with lampard and ballack as we've established on the other thread right?

but anyway, I don't really rate gerrard and lampard too much as international players so yeah..

but if they're good enough lampard and gerrard will figure out how to play together (if it's required in the future).