Matchday 19: FSV Mainz 05 v. BVB [R] [Archive]

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footyfan1

29 Jan 2007, 03:57 AM

Gunning4Chelsea

30 Jan 2007, 02:46 PM

The BVB team won't have very long to celebrate that HUGE freakin' win over FC Bayern this past Friday for it is an "English Week" in the Bundesliga. Action for match day 19 begins tomorrow (Tuesday) evening. BVB visits Mainz 05 on Wednesday evening.

I guess we will see if the heart and fire the BVB team showed on Friday will carry over because this Mainz team will come to fight in front of their fantastic supporters after their 1-0 win in Bochum this past Saturday.

As I recall, Mainz has given us a hard time in each of our appearances at the Stadion am Bruchweg and I don't expect this one to be any different.

It will be harder for us as our second best striker so far this season, Ebi Smolarek, suffered a torn thigh muscle against Bayern and will be out for the next three to four weeks.

"Gunning4Chelsea", if Nelson Valdez does not step up during this period, you will get your wish of me blasting his ass out of the freakin' water.

Valdez has no excuses. As stated before, I think there are two things we actually agree on when it comes to Valdez.

1) BVB paid well too much for him.

2) We didn't pay 4.5M for a guy who just runs his ass off for the team. We need production.

If the team plays as well as it did in the second half against Bayern and Valdez can't score against Mainz, then I have to call a spade a spade.........

Let's see what happens on Wednesday night.

very true - he really needs to embrace his chance....if he starts going - Ebi will be pressured to play well (like in the beginning of the campaign)
such competition can only bode well for BVB's results....
i am anticipating a very exciting 2nd half....for the first time in some time now
i am not going to kid myself into thinking that we have the talent to get a top 2 finish - but a top 5 is very do-able....
hopefully valdez will stop dicking around and put some away! - because 4.5 euros is loads especially for a club like BVB where looking for pennies in the couch cushions is a norm

off-topic
it looks like Jakub Blaszczykowski will be signed soon - it's just the matter of time...from what i have seen (NT performances mainly)....he might the most talented Polish player in a decade and a half....his performances against Portugal and Belgium were impressive....very gifted technically and pacey and solid at making the final pass (which we need...badly)...
from what i have read - he was part of a two man (with striker Brozek) wrecking crew in UEFA cup...where mainly Wisla was only successfully attacking through his flank - and he noted 4 assists on 6 goals....good signing if it happens
anyway - i will stop with my banter for now

HeyaBVB

30 Jan 2007, 09:17 PM

Could be that both .. Amoah and Valdez (our zero goal strikers) start. Frei is slightly injured and my last knowledge is that it is not clear if he can play or not

But ... Mainz could be BOTH players chance ...

footyfan1

31 Jan 2007, 03:48 AM

very true - he (Valdez) really needs to embrace his chance....if he starts going - Ebi will be pressured to play well (like in the beginning of the campaign)
such competition can only bode well for BVB's results....

I agree. But like me, BVB management keeps making excuses for Valdez. I won't do it anymore. They need to stop too. This is when the team needs this guy to produce.

i am anticipating a very exciting 2nd half....for the first time in some time now
i am not going to kid myself into thinking that we have the talent to get a top 2 finish - but a top 5 is very do-able....

I think if we have some luck with injuries and get some help from others with Leverkusen and Hertha, then yes, fifth place is very doable.

A win tonight would go a long way toward that. Leverkusen hosts Bremen, who will want to win badly to stay ahead of Scheisse 04. Hertha has to travel to Hannover, who are always tough at home. With 1. FC Nuernberg being held to a goalless draw in Wolfsburg last night and Bielefeld losing in Stuttgart, if both Bremen and Hertha lose tonight and we win, we would be tied for sixth place on points with Leverkusen at 28 and just two behind Hertha at 30. Hell, we'd only be five points behind Bayern!! LOL!!

We just need to finally beat Mainz again.......

We've never lost to them, but as stats article I translated for the www.borussia-dortmund.com]official BVB website stated, four of the five overall meetings between the two clubs have ended in 1-1 draws, including the last three.

We need to take these three points, but they are a confident team going into this match.

If Roeber has indeed brought a "new attitude" to Dortmund, it will show tonight.

hopefully valdez will stop dicking around and put some away! - because 4.5 euros is loads especially for a club like BVB where looking for pennies in the couch cushions is a norm

It was a gamble. One that only Valdez can justify. The money is nothing in comparison, but this is the biggest gamble BVB has taken on a striker since some guy named Marcio Amoroso. With the money we paid, we can't afford for this guy to have an "off year".

He's not doing much better, but I still would have taken that money and paid for Sanogo.

off-topic
it looks like Jakub Blaszczykowski will be signed soon - it's just the matter of time...from what i have seen (NT performances mainly)....he might the most talented Polish player in a decade and a half....his performances against Portugal and Belgium were impressive....very gifted technically and pacey and solid at making the final pass (which we need...badly)...

From everything I've read, he's just about sure to join us next season.

from what i have read - he was part of a two man (with striker Brozek) wrecking crew in UEFA cup...where mainly Wisla was only successfully attacking through his flank - and he noted 4 assists on 6 goals....good signing if it happens
anyway - i will stop with my banter for now

Good info. I don't know much about him, but BVB management seems to think they have a good one there if we get the deal done.

footyfan1

31 Jan 2007, 03:58 AM

Could be that both .. Amoah and Valdez (our zero goal strikers) start. Frei is slightly injured and my last knowledge is that it is not clear if he can play or not

Frei trained with the team yesterday. I expect him to play.

But ... Mainz could be BOTH players chance ...

I don't think so. If for some reason Frei can't go, the website indicated that we might go with Ricken as a "withdrawn" central striker ahead of Amoah. Ricken has played this position well before.

I think it would be a good move. You want to save Amoah for when the Mainz defenders are already tired.

Gunning4Chelsea

31 Jan 2007, 12:38 PM

Good info. I don't know much about him, but BVB management seems to think they have a good one there if we get the deal done.

apparently Man U and Sevilla sent serious inquiries to the Wisla management Man U scouts were present at Wisla-Basel game UEFA cup game....where Blasczykowski faired quite well - (think he was voted MOTM)

one more thing - I actually believe that this kid would be an upgrade from Odonkor....while Odonkor may be a tad quicker....he's not as gifted technically as Blaszczykowski
here's a highlight from Wisla - Feyenoord game (moves a little bit like rosicky)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=gnn5b3imY4s

footyfan1

31 Jan 2007, 12:53 PM

one more thing - I actually believe that this kid would be an upgrade from Odonkor....while Odonkor may be a tad quicker....he's not as gifted technically as Blaszczykowski
here's a highlight from Wisla - Feyenoord game (moves a little bit like rosicky)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=gnn5b3imY4s

If I can be sold on a player without seeing extensive coverage of him, you just did it..........

lemons

31 Jan 2007, 03:06 PM

GolTV is showing Leveruksen vs. Bremen, so I'm missing out on this one. :(

HeyaBVB

31 Jan 2007, 03:21 PM

Mainz 1 (Andreason) BVB 0 ....

Metzelder shall have fouled Ruman

footyfan1

31 Jan 2007, 05:18 PM

GolTV is showing Leveruksen vs. Bremen, so I'm missing out on this one. :(

You didn't miss shit besides the return of the f#cking gutless wonders. You know, the REAL BVB team.

"Gunning4Chelsea" was right. Nelson Valdez is F#CKING USELESS!!!

If it weren't for the ball bouncing past him every now and then, I wouldn't have realized his sorry, no good f#cking ass was on the pitch!!!

So far, it looks like BVB has thrown away 4.5M Euros on this guy who fits into this team perfectly.

All talk, no f#cking action!!!

No more defending this guy, no more goddamned excuses!! Right now, he's a f#cking 4.5M Euro FAILURE!!!

Anyone who thinks BvM was THE PROBLEM needed to see this match tonight.

No, the team didn't play completely badly, but once again they allowed themselves to be out-hustled and out-worked by a lesser talented team who wanted it more.

In other words, new trainer, SAME OLD SHIT!!!

Near the end, they even reverted back to the f#cking useless high long passes everyone f#cking blamed on BvM!!!

BLAME THAT ON BvM NOW!!!!!

Another player who reverted back to his old form was Steven Pienaar. He was f#cking AWFUL tonight!!! Just god f#cking awful!!! You can put Philipp Degen in that category too!! I understand about what Roeber said about Degen being allowed to make mistakes, but you need to limit how many and where he makes them.

When Gladbach signed Philipp's twin David, I joked that we had the better Degen. After seeing more of David this season, I'm not so sure.......

One player who did better than Friday was Brzenska. Have to hand it to him, I don't think he did badly at all tonight. Despite giving up the penalty that lost the match, I don't think Metzelder was bad either. I thought Kruska and Kringe did all right too.

I do think Dede took a step back though. The Mainz players were all over him and he looked like he had no idea of how to handle it. I thought Tinga was "so-so" at best and Weidenfeller might get suspended for that kick he took at Jovanovic late in the match.

I think he should. That move was dirty and stupid.

There was one thing from tonight's loss that was the same as Friday's night's win over Bayern.

The "lesser talented" team who worked harder and fought harder won the match........

KUBI_nu11

31 Jan 2007, 06:25 PM

footyfan1

01 Feb 2007, 03:24 AM

Ok, I am not going to lie: I AM F**king PISSED right now.

What the F**k is going on here? Frei scores 2 goals angainst Bayern munich, Dortmund wins 3-2 and then we play against the worst ranked team in Bundesliga and we lose. WHAT THE F**K IS THIS BS! This is not only ridiculous its f*cking driving me crazy?

Frei should have had one last night too. Mainz keeper Wache stoned him cold.

But I don't blame Frei. He can't make them all. That sorry goddamned mo#her f#cking Valdez is another story altogether!!! You couldn't tell he was on the f#cking pitch last night and Roeber let him play the 90 minutes!!!!

btw, David Degen is much better than Philippe... he is fast, can dribble better, he can do great crosses and he can shoot. NOTHING that P.Degen can do !

Thanks for that confirmation. The more I watch David Degen, the more I realize we signed the wrong brother.

footyfan1

01 Feb 2007, 06:33 AM

Gunning4Chelsea

01 Feb 2007, 10:18 AM

Roeber says it best. He's referring to chances from Frei and Valdez:

"When you are alone in front of the keeper two times and you don't score, you get punished."

Roeber then went on to say:

"In the first half, we controlled the battle in midfield. In the second half, we had very few chances and the match was decided by a penalty. Mainz are to be commended for their performance."

Needless to say, I totally agree with him.

Wow....i didnt get a chance to watch the game since I got piled on a work...but I was following the livecast of the net and I was getting pissed off minute by minute
regarding valdez - I was never a fan of him at Werder - hence my harsh criticism of him - for the last time - I will say that Valdez is better suited to come off the bench for a spark...and not for full 90....yet we shell out 4.5 mil for 2nd stringer?!
that turd in the management -useless Zorc - needs to be canned.... spending loads of cash on useless players...and if he lets go Metzelder or Dede in the summer - I will boycott this team on the spot....
i could understand of letting go Odonkor and Rosicky - we got a reasonable return for them - but nothing was done to upgrade or improve our MF or FW
the last five years - can only be classified as a series of ups and downs....just when i get excited for an interesting future....Mainz-type games show up....

footyfan1

01 Feb 2007, 11:21 AM

Wow....i didnt get a chance to watch the game since I got piled on a work...but I was following the livecast of the net and I was getting pissed off minute by minute

Then you can imagine how my blood pressure rose minute by minute......

regarding valdez - I was never a fan of him at Werder - hence my harsh criticism of him - for the last time - I will say that Valdez is better suited to come off the bench for a spark...and not for full 90....yet we shell out 4.5 mil for 2nd stringer?!

Well, like I told you back when we argued on and on about it, I would not have a problem admitting it if you were right.

AND SO FAR YOU ARE F#CKING SPOT ON!!!

I guess I got caught up in his potential like BVB management did, but even I said I wouldn't have paid 4.5M for him! I said I would have rather paid 3.5M for Sanogo and let Valdez stay where he was, but I hoped that he would justify BVB overpaying for him.

Shit! So far, he's Delron Buckley at more than ten times the price!!!

What a f3ckin' waste. And again, you f#cking called it!!!

that turd in the management -useless Zorc - needs to be canned.... spending loads of cash on useless players...

I've been calling for Zorc's head for years. I think his job is just his "pension" for serving the club so long as a player. He has to be the worst "Sports Director" in all the Bundesliga. I can't see where the guy does anything besides the work that Watzke doesn't want to do.

I am deadly and completely serious when I tell people I believe I can do Michael Zorc's job better than he can.

But I would get fired for telling Watzke when he's about to f#ck up......

And to be honest, I think Watzke is the one who wanted Valdez so badly, not Zorc. I thought Zorc got excited over Frei.

I think this because Watzke is the one who controls the money and we sure as hell decided to meet Werder's price awfully quickly while we spent time on the Frei deal talking Rennes down as we should have talked Werder down on Valdez.

and if he lets go Metzelder or Dede in the summer - I will boycott this team on the spot....

Well, I don't think Zorc is the one who has a say. I think Watzke is the one who actually decides who stays and who goes. It is also one of the reasons I think Zorc is a waste and he's stealing money (his salary) from the club. Zorc is supposed to be "the football man" out of this group and from what I can see, he's f#cking pathetic.

The way things are going, in another season or two, BVB is just going to be Watzke's "Kicker Football Manager Game" team.......

I think Watzke WANTS to get rid of Metzelder and bring in his favorite, Heiko Westermann of Bielefeld. I think Dede goes nowhere.

i could understand of letting go Odonkor and Rosicky - we got a reasonable return for them - but nothing was done to upgrade or improve our MF or FW

I still think we f#cked those up. Rosicky should have been sold two years before. Clubs were known to be interested in Rosicky in the 15-20M Euro range. My plan then? Sign Lincoln, who was leaving Kaiserslautern on a FREE TRANSFER and is also Dede's best friend, to be the new #10 and sell Rosicky to the highest bidder.

What did I hear from quite a few on the BVB list?? "Lincoln isn't good enough for BVB!"

Now, three years later, most BVB fans f#cking wish we had Lincoln and are willing to pay Scheisse for him!!!

That's another thing I think BVB fans and management need to get over. There are some up and coming players we either need to sign or missed out on signing because apparently, some still are deciding these guys "aren't good enough for BVB", yet the clubs these guys are signing for are now AHEAD OF BVB IN THE STANDINGS!!!

BVB fans and management need to realize that BVB is NOT the BVB of the 90s anymore and if they keep f#cking around, we're going to be the BVB of the early to mid 80s again and I don't think anyone wants to go back there!

Ah. The other thing on the "Rosicky/Odonkor" thing. At the time of the Odonkor deal, I admitted that 6.5M is much more than Odonkor was worth on the transfer market, but what would BVB need more? That money in the bank or that player on the pitch?

The way the first half of the season went, my vote would be for that player on the pitch.

And before everyone goes off about his injury or how "badly" he did at Betis, let's remember two things:

1) Nobody saw that injury coming and you can say it would have still happened had he stayed with us.

2) Odonkor already had a set role at BVB.

Yeah. The other thing will be, "We were going to the 4-4-2, there was no spot for him. That's because everyone assumed the 4-4-2 would work. I said it might not, it didn't and it still hasn't. Someone show me what good that transfer money did BVB......

In the end, the player asked to go and the club said yes. This is where the club has to stop being so f#cking nice and be a little selfish.

Had it been me, Odonkor would have shut the f#ck up and played his way back into the lineup.

I'd be an unpopular Manager of Football Operations (I'd change the title & Zorc could stay as "Director of Sports Other Than Football) at BVB with the fans, but they would have a team who would meet their demands to fight for every point.

So, that's why I think both the Rosicky and Odonkor transfers were overall big f#ck-ups by the management.

But if all you do is look at the money, you won't think so......

the last five years - can only be classified as a series of ups and downs....just when i get excited for an interesting future....Mainz-type games show up....

More downs than ups and most of the wounds suffered have been largely self-inflicted.

That is what f#cking sucks the worst out of all this shit. We're doing it to ourselves!!

I guess a few years ago, someone said to Zorc, "Hey, BVB, go f#ck yourselves!"

And they took it literally.......... :mad:

Gunning4Chelsea

01 Feb 2007, 11:52 AM

[QUOTE=footyfan1;10587559]

Ah. The other thing on the "Rosicky/Odonkor" thing. At the time of the Odonkor deal, I admitted that 6.5M is much more than Odonkor was worth on the transfer market, but what would BVB need more? That money in the bank or that player on the pitch?

The way the first half of the season went, my vote would be for that player on the pitch.

And before everyone goes off about his injury or how "badly" he did at Betis, let's remember two things:

1) Nobody saw that injury coming and you can say it would have still happened had he stayed with us.

2) Odonkor already had a set role at BVB.

Yeah. The other thing will be, "We were going to the 4-4-2, there was no spot for him. That's because everyone assumed the 4-4-2 would work. I said it might not, it didn't and it still hasn't. Someone show me what good that transfer money did BVB......

In the end, the player asked to go and the club said yes. This is where the club has to stop being so f#cking nice and be a little selfish.

Had it been me, Odonkor would have shut the f#ck up and played his way back into the lineup.

I'd be an unpopular Manager of Football Operations (I'd change the title & Zorc could stay as "Director of Sports Other Than Football) at BVB with the fans, but they would have a team who would meet their demands to fight for every point.

So, that's why I think both the Rosicky and Odonkor transfers were overall big f#ck-ups by the management.

But if all you do is look at the money, you won't think so......

[QUOTE]

excellent points
re: Rosicky - I am not sure there was anything else that could have been done but to ship him out....wasn't he hinting that he wanted to move one to a stronger club the past few years?....i think his exit was sealed before 05/06 season - we could have sold him 2 -3 years prior when his transfer market value was higher but we desperately needed him at the time....I do admit that Lincoln would have been a nice option though

for Odonkor - it's mostly a money consideration - 6.5 mil EUR is loads in Bundesliga to sign a very good player - potentially better than Odonkor....
the sad thing - we would not have this conversation if Pienaar and Valdez actually pulled their balls out of their purses and played like the respective price tag reflects

on a side note - what is your impression of Roeder?....dont know much about it - but so far i like what he has to say

footyfan1

01 Feb 2007, 12:07 PM

excellent points
re: Rosicky - I am not sure there was anything else that could have been done but to ship him out....wasn't he hinting that he wanted to move one to a stronger club the past few years?....i think his exit was sealed before 05/06 season - we could have sold him 2 -3 years prior when his transfer market value was higher but we desperately needed him at the time....I do admit that Lincoln would have been a nice option though

We didn't "desperately need" Rosicky. It's just that management were too f#cking scared to go on without him. Same with Koller. I wanted to sell him the year before he left because he all but said he would extend with Borussia.

Again, It wasn't that we couldn't live without these guys, it's that management were too SCARED to!

Look at us now. We aren't doing any worse without them than we did in their final years with us.

And, Lincoln would have been the PERFECT REPLACEMENT for Rosicky. But I didn't know what I was talking about. The player "wasn't good enough for BVB....."

(As you can see, I really HATE that "he isn't good enough for BVB" shit......)

BVB managment were just a bunch of f#cking cowards and afraid to move on without him! We lost so much money by waiting so long to sell him!

(Not yelling at you, just pissed off at the situation. If I could see it, why couldn't they?? They are the ones who get PAID to do this!!)

for Odonkor - it's mostly a money consideration - 6.5 mil EUR is loads in Bundesliga to sign a very good player - potentially better than Odonkor....

the sad thing - we would not have this conversation if Pienaar and Valdez actually pulled their balls out of their purses and played like the respective price tag reflects

I can't fully agree with that. The Odonkor money was not used for Valdez or Pienaar. Valdez was bought before Odonor was sold (Although I think overpaying for Valdez was one of the reasons it was easy to make the Odonkor sale) and Pienaar was a free transfer.

Neither of them do for the offense what Odonkor did. And that is attack from the right flank.

Right now, if we can't attack over the left, we're f#cked, as you saw in Mainz last night. If Juergen Klopp figured that out, you think the rest of our opponents won't??

When we lost Odonkor, we lost all ability to attack effectively from the right side. Something that Pienaar, Degen and Kringe have not been able to make up for.

Sure man, you can't just say no to 6.5M for a one-dimensional player. Don't get me wrong. I KNOW David Odonkor is a one-dimensional player. But he handles his "one dimension" so well, that I really cannot sit here and say that 6.5M was worth losing him as an option. Especially when we can't see what good that money did the club.......

If we'd taken two or three of that 6.5 and signed someone like Misimovic or three or four and signed Basturk, I wouldn't complain.

But again, what good did that money do the club???

on a side note - what is your impression of Roeder?....dont know much about it - but so far i like what he has to say

I liked most things BvM had to say too. In the end, it's not what they say, its what the team does. And right now, after last night, all I can say is:

New trainer, same old shit.........

Gunning4Chelsea

02 Feb 2007, 10:20 AM

We didn't "desperately need" Rosicky. It's just that management were too f#cking scared to go on without him. Same with Koller. I wanted to sell him the year before he left because he all but said he would extend with Borussia.

Again, It wasn't that we couldn't live without these guys, it's that management were too SCARED to!

Look at us now. We aren't doing any worse without them than we did in their final years with us.

And, Lincoln would have been the PERFECT REPLACEMENT for Rosicky. But I didn't know what I was talking about. The player "wasn't good enough for BVB....."

(As you can see, I really HATE that "he isn't good enough for BVB" shit......)

BVB managment were just a bunch of f#cking cowards and afraid to move on without him! We lost so much money by waiting so long to sell him!

(Not yelling at you, just pissed off at the situation. If I could see it, why couldn't they?? They are the ones who get PAID to do this!!)

I can't fully agree with that. The Odonkor money was not used for Valdez or Pienaar. Valdez was bought before Odonor was sold (Although I think overpaying for Valdez was one of the reasons it was easy to make the Odonkor sale) and Pienaar was a free transfer.

Neither of them do for the offense what Odonkor did. And that is attack from the right flank.

Right now, if we can't attack over the left, we're f#cked, as you saw in Mainz last night. If Juergen Klopp figured that out, you think the rest of our opponents won't??

When we lost Odonkor, we lost all ability to attack effectively from the right side. Something that Pienaar, Degen and Kringe have not been able to make up for.

Sure man, you can't just say no to 6.5M for a one-dimensional player. Don't get me wrong. I KNOW David Odonkor is a one-dimensional player. But he handles his "one dimension" so well, that I really cannot sit here and say that 6.5M was worth losing him as an option. Especially when we can't see what good that money did the club.......

If we'd taken two or three of that 6.5 and signed someone like Misimovic or three or four and signed Basturk, I wouldn't complain.

But again, what good did that money do the club???

I liked most things BvM had to say too. In the end, it's not what they say, its what the team does. And right now, after last night, all I can say is:

New trainer, same old shit.........

really?...Basturk, to me, is like a clone of Emre, wonderful talent but unfulfilled potential - i just dont see him as an everyday player and that signing would not have been a good one....

footyfan1

02 Feb 2007, 11:00 AM

really?...Basturk, to me, is like a clone of Emre, wonderful talent but unfulfilled potential - i just dont see him as an everyday player and that signing would not have been a good one....

He's better than what we have now. And that's what we have to look at. We can't sign "stars" at BVB anymore.

We can't afford it. We need to improve step by step.

You may not rate Basturk, but I think it's pretty hard to say he would not be an improvement over what we have now.

Gunning4Chelsea

03 Feb 2007, 08:52 PM

He's better than what we have now. And that's what we have to look at. We can't sign "stars" at BVB anymore.

We can't afford it. We need to improve step by step.

You may not rate Basturk, but I think it's pretty hard to say he would not be an improvement over what we have now.

in all things considered, you are right....he would have at least provided some spark off the bench - which, right now, we do not have anyone like that.