Brazilian League: Bigger and more competitive than any other

[SoccerScout]

This is a spin off of another thread where some Clown had the balls to say that Brazilian Club soccer was pathetic. The guy obviously has no concept of how Brazil grew into the power it is today in soccer and how that is due to the quantity of powerful clubs within Brazil.

To me its very simple. Brazil because of its size and the quantity of large club that each year fight for the Championship is a much more competitive and difficult league to win than any other major league in the world. Let me explain.

Argentinian league which for some ODD reason gets so much respect by American BigSoccerites is no better than the Brazilian Sao Paulo State Championship. In that Paulista Championship they have 4 Huge teams, Sao Paulo, Palmeiras, Santos (Pele's team) and Corinthians and then a load of small clubs with weaker teams. Thats exactly what the Argentinian league is...no more than the equivelent of a Brazilian State Championship where the same teams always win the title.

Uruguay for example is almost a Twin of Rio Grande do Sul State which sits right next to Uruguay. Even in Soccer, Uruguay has 2 or 3 main teams...well so does Rio Grande do Sul...Inter and Gremio and to a lesser extent Juventude. So you see Brazil has many "countries" within its border.

Same goes for most of the soooo loved Italo-Brit-Spaniard leagues where the same 2 or 3 teams win every year and everyone else sucks for 50 years without a title. Whats the fun in that...I can get that fix watching a State Championship in Brazil where the same teams fight for the title every year.

In Brazil we have DIVERSITY. 26 State Championships, many of which are bigger and better than many National leagues from around the World.

Boca Juniors is sooo well known as a Big South American Team because they are always winning the Argentinian title as where in Brazil there are 10 or 12 teams that have somewhat evenly split the titles over the last 30 years. So a Flamengo , Inter or Corinthians do not get the same Press that Boca gets because of that. If Boca played in Brazil, they would just be another club maybe winning a title here and there.

So personally I'm sick and tired of all this snobbery grandeur talk of some soccer Fans outside Brazil and the lack of respect tords it. Everyone drewls over Brazilian players but when it comes to Brazilian clubs people seem to think Brazil is a lesser nation. Rediculous.

Brazil still continues to be the most competitive National League in the World where a decent amount of clubs can win it...all while producing great new players every year. And don't give me that crap that most stars play in Europe...because even in the 70's and 80's when ALL the Brazilian Stars played in Brazil...the snobbery was still the same.

Its not a coincidence that Brazil is the most respected Soccer nation in the World. Its time people open there eyes and see that that didnt happen for no reason...it happened because of the power of its Clubs. The Diversity and competion created among the Big 12 of Brazil. Something that lacks everywhere else in the world. The Clubs are what powers the National team that has dominated over the last 50 years.

[Mengão86]

Wow, finally a nice post by SoccerScout! j/k:p

I love watching the Brazilian league over any other league just because you never know who is going to win the league each year. It is VERY difficult for teams to win championships in back to back years unlike in other leagues. Also, most leagues usually have 4 to 5 big team where as Brazil has about 12 big teams.

I also enjoy watching the raising stars take flight. It makes the league that much enjoyable. Everyone thinks you need craques in your league during their prime to make the league good, but I totally disagree.

SS, let other people believe what they want to believe. They can go watch La Liga, EPL or Serie A all they want. Let the Argies continue to think that their league is superior. But you want to know what we should do? We should just continue watching our teams win Libertadores cups, sometimes in ALL Brazilian finals and watch our teams win Mundiais over the overhyped European clubs.

[messias]

It's simple. The Brazil League isn't the best becouse our big clubs has a little problem... a marketing problem... while we care playing soccer they care about making money and propaganda! :cool:

[SoccerScout]

Some Stats.

Last 10 years in:

Brazil: 6 Different National Champs

Argentina: Only 4 in the Clausura

England : Only 3! (Chelsea, Man U and Arsenal) Gee who will win this year?? This is definetly the equivelant to a State Championship in Brazil in terms of same ole same ole winners.

SPAIN: 4 (and only 5 in the last 20 years!!)

Furthermore:

Real Madrid has won the Spanish league 29 Times....those numbers rival state Championship numbers in Brazil where for example Inter has won the Gaucho Championship 37 Times and Gremio 34 Times. The team with the Most Brazilian National Championships have only 5.

[messias]

And Scotland?!?! Only 2 in a 100 years?!?! hahahaha

[leg_breaker]

Its not a coincidence that Brazil is the most respected Soccer nation in the World.

Brazil is respected because of their national team. Most people couldn't even name Brazilian clubs. The Brazilian league is balanced because no team is rich or organised enough to put together a good team and stop all the players going to Europe. It's a 'tallest blade of grass' situation.

Even the top teams in Brazil have pitiful crowds and crumbling stadiums. It's hardly a league that anyone should aspire to emulate. Unless you're into hooliganism.

But carry on bigging yourself up by comparing yourself to countries with a fraction of your population.

[leonidas]

Brazil is respected because of their national team. Most people couldn't even name Brazilian clubs. The Brazilian league is balanced because no team is rich or organised enough to put together a good team and stop all the players going to Europe. It's a 'tallest blade of grass' situation.

Even the top teams in Brazil have pitiful crowds and crumbling stadiums. It's hardly a league that anyone should aspire to emulate. Unless you're into hooliganism.

But carry on bigging yourself up by comparing yourself to countries with a fraction of your population.

players would go to europe regardless because there is just that much more money there--it isnt even a football thing. it's an economic situation where there just isnt enough money, or there is little point in showering a team with money if you dont see any returns. and that's also connected with the stadia. if you have a good one, fans will likely show up. outside of two or three grounds, brazilian clubs for the most part play in horrendous stadia. if you have the money to make a good stadium, problem solved. until then, you will see teams playing in cavernous 60,000 seat stadiums which aren't even a third full.

i think Internacional is a good example of a team who loses 4-5 key starters routinely each season, sometimes during the season, and yet they are still able to field a championship team. that isnt an accident. it's a testament to a well-run club. the same applies to Sao Paulo and Santos, and therefore, it should come as no surprise that the most organized clubs in brazil are the ones that are the most consistent. Clubs like Palmeiras, Gremio, Corinthians, and Flamengo are always in the hunt...and i would say they have a better chance of winning the league than the usual Big 3 which are found in most leagues in Europe. it's the variability which makes the leagues exciting. it's why having a well-respected club like mine get relegated and then fight back and finish in the top 4. that's why the Italian league is all of a sudden exciting. penalize the top clubs for cheating and you have Palermo near the top, seemingly out of nowhere. or sevilla in spain, who have benefited from selling their top players and created a foundation for the future.

football parity creates hope for the fan. otherwise, what's the point in being a bolton or everton or whatever 2nd tier team in any league if you never win anything? is finishing in 6th place something to celebrate? maybe if you're a reading fan, yes.

[Mengão86]

In the 1980's, teams were able to keep their players. Zico went to Europe for 2 years and HATED it. He came back to Brasil right after that. Sorry, there is nothing attractive about European football to our players other than MONEY.

[SoccerScout]

Brazil is respected because of their national team. Most people couldn't even name Brazilian clubs. The Brazilian league is balanced because no team is rich or organised enough to put together a good team and stop all the players going to Europe. It's a 'tallest blade of grass' situation.

Even the top teams in Brazil have pitiful crowds and crumbling stadiums. It's hardly a league that anyone should aspire to emulate. Unless you're into hooliganism.

But carry on bigging yourself up by comparing yourself to countries with a fraction of your population.


Look whos talking about Hooligans...a F'íng Brit.

And you made my point....people are dumb enough to oooo and aweeee Brazils National team and disrespect the Club teams...wehn it is THE CLUB teams that are responsible for the sucess of Brazilian Soccer...without the clubs there would be no succeful national team.

But I will not continue this debate with a fan of BOLTON...a team that never won anything, a small club that will never win anything unless some Russioan Billionaire buys them.

Viva o Brasil!!

England and Spain can kiss my a$$ two countries that combined have won 1 World Cup....UNO...UM...ONE.....in a combined 36 WC's....all that money...all that Örganization and thats all they can do...oh a a highly questionable WC played at home. Sad. pathetic.

[AuriVerde]

As you said: viva o Brasil!

I consider this to be one of the best threads ever created around these boards.
Brasil is huge,our players are the most talented and there are so many great players appearing every year that we can feed not only our league,but the "eurosnobs' leagues either.
Deal with that.

[BTV802]

I have nothing but respect for the Brazilian league. It's the Paulista right? It develops rediculously talented players, and when these players inevitably move on to the Europoean leagues, they bring a style and flair that many of the European players either lack or emulate poorly. I do wish more of these players with move to smaller European clubs first like Ronaldo (PSV) and Ronaldinho (PSG) did instead of going straight to the giants like Robinho (Real Madrid). I'd like to see a player like Kerlon or Nilmar come to Ajax, unfortunately we seem to develop some solid young players of our own.

[Ombak]

I have nothing but respect for the Brazilian league. It's the Paulista right?Paulista is for São Paulo - ie a state league, not a national league.

[sidis]

in some wasy we are loosing our stars and this help to low the hype around he league.

but we are the most rich league outside europe, and we are more rich than much european leagues like portugal (porto, benfica and sporting are richer than brazilian teams, but the other teams including second division teams are awful!!!).

the greatest problem of our league is that we don't have other league to compete with us in south america:
argentina: too polarizated, boca and river, and one other team are competitive.

we need to reorganizate the americas soccer, unify concacaf and conmebol, then we will equilibrate the GDP and population of two continents and could compete with europe in tv rights.

[LMGOAL]

Brazil is respected because of their national team. Most people couldn't even name Brazilian clubs. The Brazilian league is balanced because no team is rich or organised enough to put together a good team and stop all the players going to Europe. It's a 'tallest blade of grass' situation.

Even the top teams in Brazil have pitiful crowds and crumbling stadiums. It's hardly a league that anyone should aspire to emulate. Unless you're into hooliganism.

But carry on bigging yourself up by comparing yourself to countries with a fraction of your population.

Most soccer fans should know at least the last 3 world club champions all from Brazil, Corinthians (Sao Paulo state) Sao Paulo (S.P. state) and Internacional also known as Inter (Rio Grande do Sul state) The last 2 have also won the Libertadores de America cup.

[sidis]

i don't agree with this.

[Colorado_GAUCHO]

Great topic! My man SS sure knows his stuff! And as for the Michael Bolton groupie...

gal, you better quit being so in love with Brasil. I know it's hard for you since you have never seen England winning a WC (And never will) and your team is a joke. But you don't have to hate. To everyone else there one thing I got to say, I started following Brasileirao in the early 80's when no Brasilian players where going abroad, that started on the second half of that decade and only players 8 or 9 on a scale 1 to 10 would go. Now is a total joke, any 4 or 5 is playing in Europe or Asia, or whatever. What does that tell me? First that they suck, second that they love Brasilian futebol and want to be like us. After all it never bothered me that the players where leaving, I can talk about my own club past 5 years. We had an amazing forward (Daniel Carvalho that plays for the NT and CSKA) he left and Nilmar took his place then he left and Rafael Sobis took his place after the last was gone Pato took his place and I'm sure as soon he's gone we'll have another one. That's why we are the might Brasil. That's why we are the best. If this was England we would still be playing Carvalho we there would be no room for us to ever know the other talent. We can afford to sell because there's plenty. The line will keep moving and the stars will keep appearing here and there. Every Brasileirao is fun because he got to see this. It must suck to be english and see a lonely player every 20 years, and it must suck even more to be a michael bolton groupie and see none whatsoever...

keep hating! meanwhile we will keep being the best

DA-LHE INTER! Brasil RULES!

[SoccerScout]

Great topic! My man SS sure knows his stuff! And as for the Michael Bolton groupie...

gal, you better quit being so in love with Brasil. I know it's hard for you since you have never seen England winning a WC (And never will) and your team is a joke. But you don't have to hate. To everyone else there one thing I got to say, I started following Brasileirao in the early 80's when no Brasilian players where going abroad, that started on the second half of that decade and only players 8 or 9 on a scale 1 to 10 would go. Now is a total joke, any 4 or 5 is playing in Europe or Asia, or whatever. What does that tell me? First that they suck, second that they love Brasilian futebol and want to be like us. After all it never bothered me that the players where leaving, I can talk about my own club past 5 years. We had an amazing forward (Daniel Carvalho that plays for the NT and CSKA) he left and Nilmar took his place then he left and Rafael Sobis took his place after the last was gone Pato took his place and I'm sure as soon he's gone we'll have another one. That's why we are the might Brasil. That's why we are the best. If this was England we would still be playing Carvalho we there would be no room for us to ever know the other talent. We can afford to sell because there's plenty. The line will keep moving and the stars will keep appearing here and there. Every Brasileirao is fun because he got to see this. It must suck to be english and see a lonely player every 20 years, and it must suck even more to be a michael bolton groupie and see none whatsoever...

keep hating! meanwhile we will keep being the best

DA-LHE INTER! Brasil RULES!


PERFECT PERFECT PERFECT...Very true!!

Look at the forward INTER has produced in the last 3 years:

Diogo Rincon (now in Russia)
Daniel Carvalho (CSKA)
Nilmar (Lyon now Corinthians)
Rafael Sobis (Betis)
Alexandre Pato (Inter)
Luiz Adriano (Inter)

What would be of these great young talents if Europe wasn't helping us keep the line Moving?

Back in the 70's/80's a player would stay on the same Brazilian team for 10 years! That means that Its likely players like Rafael Sobis, Nilmar might have gotten stuck on line with no place to play if the Euro werent "helping" by clearing the line!

Meanwhile the opposite happens in Europe...there is less and less space for HOMEGROWN players to play in Europe. Back in the day those teams were all Euro teams...now they are 40, 50, 60, 70% foreign....and with less space for young Euro talent to play. In the long run this will just make Euro National teams worse...and Brazilians Better..at least on paper. Look at the 2006 Brazil team...on paper the talent was immense...why they didn't produce is more of a motivational thing than soccer itself.

So Europe is having too much of a good thing for its OWN good...keep taking our players...you are just helping us develop players faster (as they now can play with 17, 18 years of age as when in the past they had to wait to actually play or quit soccer alltogether) while slowing down your own production.

Thanks Europe!

[sidis]

in 70's 80's probably sobis or nilmar will go to play in rio like renato gaucho does...

but only 1 or 2 of then.

[Colorado_GAUCHO]

I'll have to disagree, in that period Inter was the team to play. No players where leaving Inter to play in RJ, and during the 80's we had some very good squads (twice runner up on the Brasileirao one final against flamengo) and our players were not going to rio. I believe that they all knew then like they know now that is better to play in Porto Alegre because anybody would rather be paid 25 k and be paid on time and always than play for some rio team and be paid 50k that they won't the color of the money for months and in the end they will have it to take it to court to get paid anyways. Renato went to rj, but more because of his lifestyle, he's one of the coligays as you may know. So he's no longer renato "gaucho" and do not deserve to be called that. He's a long time carioca by now.

[SoccerScout]

I'll have to disagree, in that period Inter was the team to play. No players where leaving Inter to play in RJ, and during the 80's we had some very good squads (twice runner up on the Brasileirao one final against flamengo) and our players were not going to rio. I believe that they all knew then like they know now that is better to play in Porto Alegre because anybody would rather be paid 25 k and be paid on time and always than play for some rio team and be paid 50k that they won't the color of the money for months and in the end they will have it to take it to court to get paid anyways. Renato went to rj, but more because of his lifestyle, he's one of the coligays as you may know. So he's no longer renato "gaucho" and do not deserve to be called that. He's a long time carioca by now.

Agreed.

Did Falcao go to Rio? NO.

Did Batista go to Rio? No

Did Valdomiro go to Rio? No

Did Rubem paz go to Rio? No

Did Mauro Galvao go to Rio? Only 7 years into his Career.