100% Werder Bremen thread 06/07 (part 3) [R]

[footyfan1]

Oguchi Onyewu is their best defender.

That says it all really. Butwe're going incredibly OT now....

Yeah. Incredibly OT, so I won't tell you what I think of your "Gooch" comment. :mad:


So, does Werder smoke Bochum like they did in the match at Bochum this season???

[Hendrik]

So, does Werder smoke Bochum like they did in the match at Bochum this season???
As usual: If they get an early goal they could easily put 3, 4 or 5 past them. If not and Bochum put in a good defensive performance the underdog might get something out of this game.

[footyfan1]

As usual: If they get an early goal they could easily put 3, 4 or 5 past them. If not and Bochum put in a good defensive performance the underdog might get something out of this game.


Well, I do believe this is the match for Werder to put up or shut up as far as the Bundesliga title goes.

I think Werder will get some help from their Northern Germany rivals (HSV) tomorrow night in Gelsenkirchen. :)

[Arjen_Robben1]

I never thought of it that way. Maybe because even when he was with FCN, I always thought Frank Baumann was an overrated wuss!

I actually think Bremen's defense is a bit more "stressed" because their offense isn't controlling match tempo as they did in the first part of the season.




Seeing "squidward's" reply, I'd say I'm partially with both of you. Yes, Benfica and Tottenham are teams who can beat Bremen on any given day, but on paper Bremen are better.

I'd venture to say Bremen and Sevilla are the two best team "on paper" left in the tourney.

But of course, we know being better "on paper" doesn't mean jack shit in this sport.

Especially in a tournament.

The big difference between Baumann and Jensen is not on the defense but on the offense, I just believe that Baumann marshalled the midfield and sustain the attack better and longer than Jensen who doesn't have that much of a presence there.

I believe Tottenham is a BIG darkhorse in the Uefa cup. Yeah, their league form has been abysmal this year. But that still doesn't discount the fact they are such a potent team, they've just woefully underachieved. Any team with Malbranque, Berbatov, Keane, Defoe, Dawson, King, and lennon is not one that I'd overlook.
Man, with all these players how did they manage to go 2 1/2 months in the Prem without a win? :confused:

[Brandon313]

well they did their thing the other day, Berbatov is just so persistant. and when they are on their game, we could see trouble!

[footyfan1]

The big difference between Baumann and Jensen is not on the defense but on the offense, I just believe that Baumann marshalled the midfield and sustain the attack better and longer than Jensen who doesn't have that much of a presence there.

OK. I see where you're coming from. I can't say that I totally agree, but I do believe that is a strong opinion.


I believe Tottenham is a BIG darkhorse in the Uefa cup.

I agree with that too. And this time they get to watch the others can do nothing but help.


Yeah, their league form has been abysmal this year. But that still doesn't discount the fact they are such a potent team, they've just woefully underachieved. Any team with Malbranque, Berbatov, Keane, Defoe, Dawson, King, and lennon is not one that I'd overlook.

Totally agree. Just the type of team who can get hot at the right time and steal a tournament. And they may not run into Werder before the final.


Man, with all these players how did they manage to go 2 1/2 months in the Prem without a win? :confused:

Didn't they lose some of them for a bit of that period??

[squidward123]

And I agree, but the UEFA Cup is not seven out of ten, it's a two-leg playoff and one final match.

Anything can happen in those.....

Or do you actually believe the best team in every tournament wins every time??? :o

Ok, consider this...

when you say that team A can beat team B 7-8 times out of 10, you assume that the matches are of equal importance.

however, if you are in a scenario of a two-legged tie, or a one match knockout situation, I would still definitely back team A to win those matches and get through.

Because the 2-3 games out of 10 that team A might lose are nowhere near of equal importance as the two legged tie or the one knockout match.

So for eg. If germany plays sweden 10 times in a string of friendlies or league games of equal importance, then germany would win 7 and lose 3.

But if it was a 2 legged tie in an important knockout tournament, or a world cup quarterfinal or something, then germany would win both those as the 3 swedish wins in the earlier context don't translate to any wins in this context.

The better team over the 10 games will also win over a lower number of games by raising their games to match the level of significance of the match.

So yeah I do believe that the best team through each of the rounds of matches against each opponent that they play, does win the cup.

[footyfan1]

Ok, consider this...

when you say that team A can beat team B 7-8 times out of 10, you assume that the matches are of equal importance.

however, if you are in a scenario of a two-legged tie, or a one match knockout situation, I would still definitely back team A to win those matches and get through.

Because the 2-3 games out of 10 that team A might lose are nowhere near of equal importance as the two legged tie or the one knockout match.

So for eg. If germany plays sweden 10 times in a string of friendlies or league games of equal importance, then germany would win 7 and lose 3.

But if it was a 2 legged tie in an important knockout tournament, or a world cup quarterfinal or something, then germany would win both those as the 3 swedish wins in the earlier context don't translate to any wins in this context.

The better team over the 10 games will also win over a lower number of games by raising their games to match the level of significance of the match.

So yeah I do believe that the best team through each of the rounds of matches against each opponent that they play, does win the cup.


I think you have too much time on your hands.........

[squidward123]

I think you have too much time on your hands.........

haha, no it's just something that occured to me randomly one day.

so what do you think..I think it's a good argument.

[footyfan1]

haha, no it's just something that occured to me randomly one day.

so what do you think..I think it's a good argument.

I don't agree.

[The Old Lady Hertha]

Me neither.

Ask Hertha when they lost to Odense
Ask Hertha when they lost to Groclin
Ask Hertha when they lost to Rapid Bucharest
Ask Schalke when they lost to Nancy

You're trying to argue using reasoning when you should already know that most things in the UEFA Cup don't really apply.
The UEFA Cup is definitely a tricky preposition for any good team.

[squidward123]

Hmm ok.. so you believe in the "anything can happen just because it's a one match or 2 match situation" theory.

I don't. I think that the better team raises their game depending on the importance and will win the knockout situation MOST of the time. "Team B" might also recede into their shells a little more in a "bigger match" situation.

The whole theory that over 2 legs or 1 match, that "anything can happen" is because people instinctively go with the assumption that the 2 or 1 games in the knockout situation are of equal importance to the 2 games out of 10 that "team B" won earlier.

[The Old Lady Hertha]

Hmm ok.. so you believe in the "anything can happen just because it's a one match or 2 match situation" theory.

I don't. I think that the better team raises their game depending on the importance and will win the knockout situation MOST of the time. "Team B" might also recede into their shells a little more in a "bigger match" situation.

The whole theory that over 2 legs or 1 match, that "anything can happen" is because people instinctively go with the assumption that the 2 or 1 games in the knockout situation are of equal importance to the 2 games out of 10 that "team B" won earlier.

No, I think me and footy have seen enough UEFA Cup ties and even Champions League cupties to know that any logic that you try to apply to a 2 legged tie is just a waste of time, I know you're trying mate, but you just can't. How the hell did Porto and Monaco make it to a Champions League final just a few years ago? Why have we talking about this hex on German teams in European competition? Schalke, Hertha should not be out of the UEFA Cup at such an early stage, but they are, and there's no real logical explanation.

In fact, the only time I remember Hertha being knocked out of the UEFA Cup in this century was a tie against Inter Milan, and we HAD INTER Milan until they scored in the last minute. :mad: All the other ties were against "supposedly inferior" teams (Groclin, Odense, Rapid Bucharest, forgot the other team).

[rossgreen]

Is it true that Frings is reluctant to sign a contract extension and looks to be going to Juve?

If he does, who/what kin of player would you want to replace him with?

[The Old Lady Hertha]

Is it true that Frings is reluctant to sign a contract extension and looks to be going to Juve?

If he does, who/what kin of player would you want to replace him with?

I don't know about the first part, but I do know that they already have his replacement in Leon Andreasen, who's guiding Mainz to safety as we speak.

[squidward123]

No, I think me and footy have seen enough UEFA Cup ties and even Champions League cupties to know that any logic that you try to apply to a 2 legged tie is just a waste of time, I know you're trying mate, but you just can't. How the hell did Porto and Monaco make it to a Champions League final just a few years ago? Why have we talking about this hex on German teams in European competition? Schalke, Hertha should not be out of the UEFA Cup at such an early stage, but they are, and there's no real logical explanation.

Porto and monaco were really good at that time though. They'd have won 50-55% of the matches against any other big team at that time. Same for bayer in 2001.

If you don't like that theory, then consider the fact that I said that MOST of the time, the better team over 10 matches will go through, so that does leave a little room for the other team to progress instead.

As for schalke and hertha, they weren't in great form earlier in the year were they? Especially schalke, only became really good in recent weeks. We're not talking about two teams that have been really good for a few years..like bayern or bremen.


In fact, the only time I remember Hertha being knocked out of the UEFA Cup in this century was a tie against Inter Milan, and we HAD INTER Milan until they scored in the last minute. :mad: All the other ties were against "supposedly inferior" teams (Groclin, Odense, Rapid Bucharest, forgot the other team).

Ok, but think of all the world cups, euro championships, European cups and the new CL and the old UEFA cup.

Look at all the names of the winners. Why have brazil, germany and italy dominated the world cup lists? Only 7 world cup winning countries.

Why have germany dominated the european championships list.

Why have real madrid, ac milan, bayern, liverpool, ajax etc dominated the EC list? They're all the same teams that won their leagues etc and would win the majority of matches over 10 games.

So MOST of the time, the team that wins over a league or 10 match format, wins the cups too I reckon.

[squidward123]

Is it true that Frings is reluctant to sign a contract extension and looks to be going to Juve?

If he does, who/what kin of player would you want to replace him with?

Er, where does it say that?? Frings has said about 100 times that he's in bremen for good. He is Werder Bremen in many ways.

[The Old Lady Hertha]

Porto and monaco were really good at that time though. They'd have won 50-55% of the matches against any other big team at that time. Same for bayer in 2001.

If you don't like that theory, then consider the fact that I said that MOST of the time, the better team over 10 matches will go through, so that does leave a little room for the other team to progress instead.

As for schalke and hertha, they weren't in great form earlier in the year were they? Especially schalke, only became really good in recent weeks. We're not talking about two teams that have been really good for a few years..like bayern or bremen.



Ok, but think of all the world cups, euro championships, European cups and the new CL and the old UEFA cup.

Look at all the names of the winners. Why have brazil, germany and italy dominated the world cup lists? Only 7 world cup winning countries.

Why have germany dominated the european championships list.

Why have real madrid, ac milan, bayern, liverpool, ajax etc dominated the EC list? They're all the same teams that won their leagues etc and would win the majority of matches over 10 games.

So MOST of the time, the team that wins over a league or 10 match format, wins the cups too I reckon.

Okay, I'm done arguing with you, I don't think you understand what I'm trying to say, and you've done make me want to do my work now, thanks. :D

[squidward123]

Schalke, Hertha should not be out of the UEFA Cup at such an early stage, but they are, and there's no real logical explanation.

Ok well you're happy to say that there's no "logical explanation" and accept that. I'm not, that's all.

You haven't really rebutted the points I made. I did point out that the best teams almost always won the important cup comps at every level. I mean why are we expecting chelsea, man utd etc etc to go through next week in the CL and how much do u want to be that they won't progress..

But anyway, get back to work then :)

[Hendrik]

Is it true that Frings is reluctant to sign a contract extension and looks to be going to Juve?

Don't listen to those Juve rumors, they're being linked with anyone these days.

What was it, something like Naldo, Mertesacker, Frings, Diego and Klose for Kovac, Bojinov and 25 million.

:D