Strikers for the NT thread

[squidward123]

You never know. Sometimes the right situation can change a guy.......

like kiessling in the NT setup - that's what I meant ages ago on the possible kiessling NT callup topic.

[footyfan1]

like kiessling in the NT setup - that's what I meant ages ago on the possible kiessling NT callup topic.

I know what the heck you meant.

And my response was that is not what the NT is for. You make it two ways:

1) Outstanding performance at your club.

2) The coach thinks you fit a highly specific role (a la Odonkor)



Kiessling fits neither of these scenarios. He'll only get a shot because of how the German press continues to push his overrated ass. He's done nothing to earn it at Bayer so far.

Yeah, yeah. Kiessling scored against BVB. Wow. And the other thing from that match is he should have had three goals. The one his stupid ass did manage to put away, Barbarez set him up so well, my 80 year old aunt could have put it away blindfolded.

Aaron Hunt has done more to earn that shot than Kiessling so far.

It's not Stefan Kiessling's fault the German press overrates him. He had a stretch of good matches with FCN and with the Germany U21 and the press is hungry for another striking star. I get that.

However, this boy showed at the end of last season that he is good, but not nearly as good as the German press makes him out to be.

He's plenty good enough for U21 play, but he's nowhere near one of Germany's top four or five strikers.

No f#cking way.

As I said, Aaron Hunt has done more to earn that shot than Kiessling so far. If Kiessling gets a shot, he can thank the editors and writers at "Bild" and "SportBild".

Kiessling will get better. Especially if he were at a club like Bremen. But from what I can see, he either:

1) Isn't being taught a damned thing at Leverkusen and I can't believe that with Skibbe there.

2) He's being taught and is too stupid to learn. I think that's what Meyer thought of him.

3) He's just in a slump. That's one long ass slump....

or

4) He just isn't good enough yet.

Right now, my choice would be #4.

And the strikers I want to see on the German team (Assuming Neuville will be replaced) are Klose, Podolski, Gomez, and since he has a specific role, Odonkor.

I think the other place will be fought for between Hunt, Schlaudraff, and yes, Kiessling. However, I think Loew will be remiss if he doesn't take a look at Karlsruhe's Giovanni Federico, and when they are healthy, Berlin's Kevin-Prince Boateng and Koln's Patrick Helmes, who I've heard has been linked with both Bremen and Stuttgart for next season.

To be quite honest, I rate all three of those players above Kiessling.

Again, Kiessling is a guy I think is good, but not as good as the press makes him out to be.

And I realize it is not his fault he's overrated simply because he had one little hot streak in his career.

I keep telling you, there's a very good reason he spent most of the second half of last season on the Nuernberg bench even when he wasn't injured.

Leverkusen found that out the hard way in the first half of this season.

Shit. That boy had to be the biggest disappointment in the league after Nelson Valdez......

[aloisius]

2) He's being taught and is too stupid to learn. I think that's what Meyer thought of him.



Man is that guy a legend or what?

[squidward123]

what I kind of meant footyfan is that carew was being portrayed as a guy who might be a "stab in the dark" for bremen.

but he might work out if he moves to bremen.

kiessling I know hasn't got the credentials so far, as you've shown.

but if he were to be given a chance he might work out.


But for me, the order is :

Klose
Podolski
Neuville
Hunt
Gomez
Kiessling

Helmes when he is healthy is for me ahead of hunt too.

["Eisenfuß" Eilts]

Kiesling, Helmes, Hunt and Neuville are complete different types of strikers.

I always find it funny (sorry, no offense, but this is the truth ;) ),
how people make a ranking of them.

They have different strengths and weak points.
If a coach has clue of football he will choose the one,
who fits best into his system or who give him
an additional tactical option (like Odonkor at the WC).
Clearly class and shape at club play a very important role,
but this is not everything.

So making a ranking is bs for me,
but we can discuss about, who fits best into Loew system
or if Loew should change his system and which players,
he should nominate then.
But this fits IMHO into the German NT thread.

Cheers, "EE"

[footyfan1]

what I kind of meant footyfan is that carew was being portrayed as a guy who might be a "stab in the dark" for bremen.

but he might work out if he moves to bremen.

kiessling I know hasn't got the credentials so far, as you've shown.

but if he were to be given a chance he might work out.

And I will tell you again that the national team is not where you go to "get a chance to work out".

The national team is for guys who have PROVEN they belong there through play at their clubs or for someone who is chosen by the coach to fill a very specific task, again, a la Odonkor.

And again, Kiessling fits NEITHER scenario!

He moved to LEVERKUSEN to get his chance to "work out" after they ran his sorry ass out of Nuernberg.

He hasn't "worked out" so far. Just why should he get a shot at the national team? Because he's a press darling??

Guys like Hunt have the numbers and the performances to back them up. Kiessling has nothing but nice news articles and s#itty performances on his resume this season.


But for me, the order is :

Klose
Podolski
Neuville
Hunt
Gomez
Kiessling

Helmes when he is healthy is for me ahead of hunt too.


And you are entitled to your opinion. As I said in my last message, I have Hunt and Schlaudraff as the top two for that final spot. I have Gomez well ahead of both Hunt and Kiessling. I have Federico and Helmes just behind Hunt, but both ahead of Kiessling.

And yes, I stand by that. I think there are two strikers in the 2. Liga better than Stefan Kiessling.

Federico will be in the 1. Liga next season without a doubt. Whether it be with KSC or another club who signs him as his contract is expiring. And I believe Federico plays mainly as an attacking midfielder who can play striker too.


Many think Helmes is following in Podolski's footsteps as far as talent development goes. If Bremen are truly trying to get him, I understand why. When I saw Helmes play, he reminded me more of Klose than Podolski.

And word is already out that Leverkusen want Helmes to make up for the mistake they made with...............

KIESSLING!

One thing I know already. Stefan Kiessling had better find himself this half of the season.

Or next season, he'll be looking for another club and I don't think Werder are in the habit of picking up scrubs off the scrap heap these days........

BVB are, but Werder are not.

Boy, talk about my nightmare scenario coming true! LOL!! :D

[Hendrik]

Are you sure Federico would play for Germany?

[footyfan1]

Are you sure Federico would play for Germany?

I don't think the Italians are going to cap him unless he moves to Serie A.

If the Germans ask first, I think he will.......

[footyfan1]

Kiesling, Helmes, Hunt and Neuville are complete different types of strikers.

I always find it funny (sorry, no offense, but this is the truth ;) ),
how people make a ranking of them.

They have different strengths and weak points.
If a coach has clue of football he will choose the one,
who fits best into his system or who give him
an additional tactical option (like Odonkor at the WC).
Clearly class and shape at club play a very important role,
but this is not everything.

So making a ranking is bs for me,
but we can discuss about, who fits best into Loew system
or if Loew should change his system and which players,
he should nominate then.
But this fits IMHO into the German NT thread.

Cheers, "EE"


EE, I thought I covered the "coach will take who he thinks fits best into his system" thing with my Odonkor comments. I made it a point to do so.

But tell me, what is Loew going to do to his system that will make him want to take an overrated young striker with two goals in the first half of the season to his name?

We know why he took Odonkor and that showed. Why in the name of God would he take Kiessling ahead of Aaron Hunt??

And you are right. This belongs at the NT thread.

["Eisenfuß" Eilts]

@DF: That would be fine. Thanks :)

EE, I thought I covered the "coach will take who he thinks fits best into his system" thing with my Odonkor comments. I made it a point to do so.

But tell me, what is Loew going to do to his system that will make him want to take an overrated young striker with two goals in the first half of the season to his name?

We know why he took Odonkor and that showed. Why in the name of God would he take Kiessling ahead of Aaron Hunt??


Well, i am also no real Kiessling fan,
but there can be found some reasons,
why Jogi Loew nominates him and not another.

A possible reason for Loew:
Aaron Hunt has better dribbling skills and can preparate goals very good.
But Aaron´s playing style needs some space and this is the space,
that Lahm and Schweinsteiger use in the NT.

I totally agree with you, that Kiessling had a horrible half-season
for all the hype, that was made about him.
But he has good skills for a penalty area striker,
perhaps Loew needs such player to complete his squad.

[footyfan1]

Well, i am also no real Kiessling fan,
but there can be found some reasons,
why Jogi Loew nominates him and not another.

A possible reason for Loew:
Aaron Hunt has better dribbling skills and can preparate goals very good.
But Aaron´s playing style needs some space and this is the space,
that Lahm and Schweinsteiger use in the NT.

I totally agree with you, that Kiessling had a horrible half-season
for all the hype, that was made about him.
But he has good skills for a penalty area striker,
perhaps Loew needs such player to complete his squad.


Does he really have good skills for a penalty area striker?? You have to tell me how you came to that conclusion. I followed him in Nuernberg last season and in Leverkusen this season and I never saw that.

I think he has good speed and decent instincts, but he lacks coolness.

Yes, he has the tools to become better and to one day be worthy of a national team spot, but right now, I don't even believe he deserves a shot.

He scored a goal in his last appearance in Dortmund, but I'll bet you most people who saw the match remember his three misses when he should have easily buried two of them. On some of those chances, I was thinking, "He's finally going to make me eat my words", just to laugh my ass off as he blew two chances before he finally scored. And he blew another golden opportunity after he scored.

But, to be fair, in that match he finally showed some of his qualities. On the bad side, he also showed why his ass was benched in Nuernberg in favor of Saenko and why Skibbe benched his ass in favor of Voronin.

There are others who can do that "penalty area" job just as well, if not even better and we named some of them.

[The Old Lady Hertha]

Why are we talking about Kiessling when Gomez is clearly better in the box and has the "coolness?" Kiessling right now has less hope that Kuranyi :eek:

["Eisenfuß" Eilts]

There are others who can do that "penalty area" job just as well, if not even better and we named some of them.

Yeah, i agree, my post was based on the question,
why Loew could choose Kiessling instead of Hunt.

btw:
I would nominate:
Klose, Podolski, Neuville (because he´s a good joker),
Schlaudraff and Gomez

[squidward123]

Ok, I was thinking when I got to the NT page, "wtf, I don't recall starting a thread like this :D"

anyway, you missed this post from me :

Yeah EE is right, ranking the players like this is stupid because it's not like Loew has to start from scratch. He already has his striking team and he needs to decide who to pick that fits into any gap there is.


Yeah I forgot about schlaudraff too. He'd be somewhere behind gomez, hunt and helmes.

I really rate helmes.

I hope bremen do sign him.

What is federico's background? err doesn't exactly sound german..giovanni federico...

[Borussia]

Are you sure Federico would play for Germany?

Of course he would!

[footyfan1]

Yeah, i agree, my post was based on the question,
why Loew could choose Kiessling instead of Hunt.

btw:
I would nominate:
Klose, Podolski, Neuville (because he´s a good joker),
Schlaudraff and Gomez


I can go with that EE. When I first made my list, a post that did not seem to make it here, I specifically said "assuming Neuville would be replaced....."

[The Old Lady Hertha]

Kiessling has missed quite a few sitters from what I've seen though. His strength and tallness do make him a good box striker, but his technique is very shaky, much like Hanke.

[footyfan1]

Why are we talking about Kiessling when Gomez is clearly better in the box and has the "coolness?" Kiessling right now has less hope that Kuranyi :eek:

Not really true TOLH. For some reason, the press here is in love with Kiessling. Like they were with Kuranyi before he left Stuttgart.

It seems with Kiessling, everyone is looking at what he MIGHT do, not was he HAS done......

[footyfan1]

Kiessling has missed quite a few sitters from what I've seen though. His strength and tallness do make him a good box striker, but his technique is very shaky, much like Hanke.


What 'strength'? When Kiessling is challenged in the box in the Bundesliga in the times I have seen him, more often than not, he goes down faster than whore giving a 20 Euro blowjob.

I like the Hanke comparison, but forced to choose between those two, I'd take Hanke.

[IlTedesco]

I like the Hanke comparison, but forced to choose between those two, I'd take Hanke.

Given the current circumstances I agree. Hanke probably is actually the more limited player of the two, but at least he's a fighter whereas Kiessling at the moment often seems very phlegmatic.