Tony Meola - WC 2006 Goalie

[Wahoo]

Originally posted by flanoverseas
but then you rated him first among US goalie performances-for his play 8 years ago :confused:

Not really. What I said was:

If you look at the 3 goalies we had on the roster for the 2002 WC. Each is about the same age and has been the #1 at the World Cup.
Meola was the #1 in 1990, and 1994.
Keller was #1 in 1998.
Friedel was #1 in 2002.
Based on their performances during their respective world cups, Tony's may have been the most impressive. This doesn't mean he is the best of the 3. The sporting world only cares about "What have you done for me lately?" and obviously Tony shouldn't be the #1 today.

Look to 2006 and the roles each could play. The #1 for this team could be Friedel, Keller, or one of the younger keepers like Cannon or Howard.
If Friedel or Keller is the #1, I would be suprised if the other accepted the #2 job.
Tony would very likely accept the #3 job again in 2006 where his experience and demeanor could be vital to the development of a younger keeper and help with unity in the team.

The comment about calling him "Near post Tony" after all these years was a secondary/unrelated issue. It doesn't apply anymore.

[Casper1377]

Originally posted by BenC1357


If you listed all of Meolas "credentials you'd be searching the web for stats all freaking day. Your stats for Thorton don't even compare.

I wouldnt go so far as to call you dumb, but come on. Thorton is not the best keeper in MLS. Meola probably isnt either. People call Meola fat? I've stood right next to him a handful of time, I assure you he is no where near fat. Thorton, has a belly.

I understand the points you're making. It did occur to me after posting that Meola has some incredible stats as well and a list of them as long as my arm...and that is generally why I don't put much faith in stats alone; Anybody can prove anything they want with them. Stats and counter-stats all day long...so I totally agree. However, I wanted to show that Zach is a great 'keeper as well and deserves to be recognized as one.
Also, I want to make it clear I've never called Meola fat or anything similar. That wasn't part of my argument. I also agree that Zach could probably stand to shed some pounds. You'd have to be blind not to see he's a big guy. But he's also a muscular and strong guy to go with it. It probably surprises no one to know he's the strongest guy on the team. And very, very quick I might add. He has incredible reflexes as he's proved and continues to prove. I can only imagine he'd be that much quicker if he were a bit lighter. But I digress...
As for him not being the best 'keeper in the league...I still think he probably is. If not him than who else? I would accept that Tim Howard and Zach proabably share and rotate that position from week to week. They are both ultra-talented. Maybe their are 1 or 2 others in their caliber. The MLS may not have a "definitive" best like Kahn in the Bundesliga, Dudek for Poland or Schmeichel used to be in the EPL. But Thornton does deserve league-wide respect from other than Fire fans.
as Jaime Foxx puts it: "Ya better recognize...will..you?" :)
There are several good 'keepers in MLS and all of them shine from time to time and game to game, but very few have shown it consistently over entire seasons and careers. Zach defintately has achieved this. I think Zach is also brilliant at the "intangibles" of the game like field generalship and running a defense. He's not afraid to take chances, a hit or dive at an attacker's feet. He doesn't seem to ever get intimidated by anyone.
Ultimately I just want to say he deserves his roster spot on the U.S. nat.'s and definately a legit shot at #1.

cheers

[SoFla Metro]

Originally posted by geordienation
By 2006 he will have eaten all the pies, so it's possible. Has he ever had authentic German Bavarian cream pie?

[SoFla Metro]

Originally posted by GoHawks4
Remember this:

It's not the size of the pig in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the pig. This will hurt Tony

[SoFla Metro]

Originally posted by BenReilly

but Keller is still our best keep, sulking or otherwise. Bruce Arena disagrees with you.

[SoFla Metro]

Originally posted by sydtheeagle
All this means is that some lucky bunch of supporters are going to get to sing "Who ate all the Pies?" in four years time.
auf Deutsche (courtesy of Babelfish)

Wer aß alle Pie?

[bostonsoccermdl]

I believe in 4 years Howard will more than fixed his occassional positional and concentration errors. These things get fixed with experience, and in 4 years these will be a thing of the past and you cant deny that he is probably the most athletic U.S. keeper ever. This will make him #1, with a friedel or Keller (probably not both due to egos..)supporting assuming they havent retired or fallen out of the picture..

[SoFla Metro]

Originally posted by Alan S


I think another part of the reason Tony was the 3rd Keeper, was Bruce did not want to show any favoritism to any of the potential keepers developing in MLS for 2006. If he had chosen Nick R. or Tim Howard, that would have made them the likely #1 for 2006. By not selecting any of them, all now feel they have an equal chance. He has said he didn't bring them because he thought it would do their development better to actually play in games for a month rather than sit on the bench for a month.

[CGoal]

In my opinion.. Tony went to Japan because BA knew that Keller and Freidal were battling out for 1 and 2 and that the loser would be a little hurt and might effect that person... And that #2 might even be a little pissed off and not be into the games as much because they are not #1.

Bringing Tony aboard was a security blanket in the sense that #2 may walk and we still have experience.

I am all for keeping Tony around. But he must show that he is worthy. He may be another security blanket in '06

[flanoverseas]

I said: but then you rated him first among US goalie performances-for his play 8 years ago

Then you saidOriginally posted by Wahoo


Not really. What I said was:

If you look at the 3 goalies we had on the roster for the 2002 WC. Each is about the same age and has been the #1 at the World Cup.
Meola was the #1 in 1990, and 1994.
Keller was #1 in 1998.
Friedel was #1 in 2002.
Based on their performances during their respective world cups, Tony's may have been the most impressive. This doesn't mean he is the best of the 3. The sporting world only cares about "What have you done for me lately?" and obviously Tony shouldn't be the #1 today.
hmmm. Anyway...Tony wasn't very impressive in '90 and was responsible for the Romania goal which sends us on to play against Brazil (maybe, who knows what would've happened had they not scored there), but that was a horrible goal to give up. And since I was there I still hold it against him (mockseriousness)

The comment about calling him "Near post Tony" after all these years was a secondary/unrelated issue. It doesn't apply anymore. True, but guess what Bill Buckner, Roberto Baggio, Scott Norwood are going to be remembered for despite exceptional careers?

[andylovesoccer]

First problem is this, Meola DOES still get beat to the near post. Don't ask me to name games, because I couldn't. I am picturing very clearly, him getting beat near post on two different occassions. This may have occurred at the end of last season, but, regardless, the problem didn't disappear eight years ago, or even four years ago. His positioning is still mediocre, which it definitely shouldn't be for a keeper of his age. Yeah, he had one spectacular year in 2000. But that is it. And there is NO WAY I can accept that any of Meola's WC games, tournaments, apperarances, etc. are better than Friedel's performance this year in Korea. The guy stopped two penalty kicks for Pete's sake, and single handedly kept us in the Korea match. Oh yeah, his foot skills suck REALLY bad. If Meola is on the 2006 WC team, it will be as a peacemaker (like this year). He will not play in WC 2006.

[andylovesoccer]

I finished typing my previous message and turned to the window sill. Aghast, and shocked nearly to horror, I could only yell out, "Where's my fugging pie??!!!??!!!"

Must be Tony's revenge.......

[flanoverseas]

can someone give a history on the pie joke so I can laugh too?

[andylovesoccer]

There is a chher that goes something like this, actually, exactly like this:

Who ate all the pies?
who ate all the pies?
You fat bastard, you fat bastard
You ate all the pies!!!

He really enjoys the fans getting involved in the game and especially appreciates when you scream that in his ears for forty five minutes. And if you get tired of that, there is another fairly simple one that he enjoys just as much. And it works great, despite what his supporters say about his weight.

He's fat, he's round
His a$$ touches the ground.
It's Meoooola, Meoooola

And just for fun, I came up with this one just this moment, and I will dedicate it to you, flanoverseas.

(to the tune of the Slinky theme song)

Meola, Meola
He's fat and a crappy goalie
Meola, Meola
On him you can score easily
(unless you are DC with a 6,000,000 minute goalless streak)

[TravisMinor_23]

Originally posted by Casper1377


We're not laughing with you, Sweep, we're laughing AT you. Idiot...Thornton is arguably(likely) the best 'keeper in MLS. Let's see...


Zach Thorton plays with one of the best defenses in MLS most years. Last year he had Bocanegra, Curtin, CJ Brown, Whitfield, and Gutierez all spending time on his backline, all have also at one point or another been argued for callups on this very BigSoccer forum. Having Armas destroying attacks also doesn't hurt. Anyone who knows soccer knows that goalie stats mean nothing. Who is better? A goalie who faces 9 horrible long range shots and one tough shot and lets the goal go in but saved the other nine for a .900 save perecentage. Or is it a goalie like Howard who commonly is pelted with tough shots but might have a little lower save percentage. Anyone who judges a goalie by stats is ignorant, there really isn't another word for it. Thorton is an average keeper at best. His mobility is less then can be accepted at the international level and he sometimes takes bad angles to the ball. I went to this year's Colorado-Chicago game in Chicago, Fire won 2-1 but Thorton made NO good saves and the goal that beat him was weak. He also was beaten by another shot just to see it slide by the post. If Thorton is our starting keep in 2006 may God help out national team......

[JayDelight729]

I agree with Travis. Thorton's stats look great, but that is because of a stellar defense. If Tim Howard was the goalie of the Fire, they'd have the best record in MLS by far.
Tim Howard will be our goalie in 2006 unless he gets hurt. Look for Friedel or Keller to be the backup and the 3rd goalie is not important(since he won't play) so it can be anybody.

Meola's last day in a US National Team Uniform was at RFK Stadium; 7 days ago.

[Casper1377]

seems like I just had a post agreeing with stats alone not being a good indicator of a 'keepers worth. But some like to read selectively and see only what they want to see. Go back a few posts and read cos only an idiot would blaze through all the other dialogue just to make his own post look clever just like only an idiot would judge a 'keeper only by his stats.
I posted those stats to show Thornton has the pedigree and experience and numbers to support my contention he's a great 'keeper, and the stats back that up. Not to PROVE my point, just to give it something tangible people can look at. That's all. End of story on that, ok?
You've been to one whole game where you saw Thornton play? I've been to or seen several season's worth. He didn't make one good save that game you saw? I'm sorry you weren't impressed, but who's fault is that that Colorado didn't challenge him very hard? Maybe the Rapids deserve your spite a bit more.
As for Thornton playing in front of good players...okay, fair enough. But, need I remind anybody, that this year the Fire has lost over 126 player games to injuries. Meaning they haven't had a giant portion of their players for most of the season. Not some of the season, over 50%. Way over. No Chris Armas, No Evan Whitfield(for the entire year too) no Peter Nowak for going on something like 6 or 7 weeks now...and Zach STILL kept them alive and in the hunt! Truth be known the team wouldn't be anywhere near the playoffs if it weren't for him. His team knows it(and appreciates it) and the fans know it. You should be able to see that too. In fact, Bocanegra(and Brown to an extent) is the only universally recognized top flight defender on his back line. The other two have mostly been Jim Curtin(2nd year) and Kelly Gray(rookie). And you make it sound as if poor Tim Howard has nobody to play for him. He's surrounded by nothing but crap. He's only got Petke, Balboa and Jolley on 'D' and Hernandez, Williams and Mathis in the middle. Yeah, that line-up sure blows :rolleyes:
I've never said Howard was anything but a great 'keeper himself(he makes fantastic saves), only that Zach was as good or better and deserves the same respect and to be considered for the top job same as Tim.
I wonder if there aren't other reasons for some people's bias. This is for the national team. What clubs they play for shouldn't be an issue.

at any rate, the job is and should be Friedel's until it can't be.

[TravisMinor_23]

Well, judging keepers is highly subjective. I honestly don't know what your purpose of posting stats were but my point was to tell other people they mean nothing. I've seen a number of Fire games this year, just the Colorado one stuck out in my head. If you want to use yesterday thats fine too. The first goal shouldn't have gone in...period. Say what you will about deflections but the ball was postmarked for the same side of the goal it went to despite the deflection. I played keeper for a number of years and still do (obviously not at a level like Thorton :D) and deflections are always tough, but that one should have been had pretty easily for a man with the type of reach Zach has. Its hard to argue with the second goal, really not much you can do when your defenders decide to leave Kries wide open...
But individual games don't matter. The bottom line in my mind is Thorton just doesn't make enough good saves to be considered for the USMNT job, is it his fault? Well not that he doesn't get more chances to, but if he would save a few more of the shots that do beat him he would be in the running. We need someone who has the ability to dominate a game, the USMNT isn't going to be the best team at the next WC, and there will probably be a game where GK will decide if we are to advance or not. I think Howard has a better chance of pulling off a string of spectacular saves then Thorton would ever have. But I guess its all opinion, and it really doesn't matter, the Bruce will have his way...

[Miloco]

Was Tony the one behind the goal when Kansas City was beaten by Morelia 6-1 last week?

[ultraviolet]

Originally posted by Miloco
Was Tony the one behind the goal when Kansas City was beaten by Morelia 6-1 last week?

yes, and he was also the one who stopped 2 penalty kicks v. DC...BTW, that was a new record.