L' Election Présidentielle 2007 / French Presidential Election [R]

[Douai]

Read the rest of my post. That is how I feel so.

I read that.Do you believe that the United States is more socially conservative than France?

[Anthony]

I read that.Do you believe that the United States is more socially conservative than France?

I am not using political in the political sense but in the cultural sense. I have found European acquiantances to be more profoundly conservative than Americans, even those Europeans who are Socialists. I believe it comes from the fact that in America everything is so new, in Europe you are surrounded by reminders of the past everywhere you look. It gives you a different outlook on life.

[guignol]

i just read your exchange with great interest, so am almost embarrassed to change the subject...

but i saw mlle royal on TV last night in between the BFC-PSG match, and the same thought came to my mind as for kerry... i'm going to vote for that???

because i am. because where kerry was the lesser of two evils, marie-ségo is by far the least of four or more. sadly.

[Anthony]

i just read your exchange with great interest, so am almost embarrassed to change the subject...

but i saw mlle royal on TV last night in between the BFC-PSG match, and the same thought came to my mind as for kerry... i'm going to vote for that???

because i am. because where kerry was the lesser of two evils, marie-ségo is by far the least of four or more. sadly.

Looking it at it from afar (and I do not understand French, I must read it in the English language press), I get the feeling that there is some "buyer's remorse" on the part of the socialists.

As for your comment on Kerry, I understand. During one of the debates, my wife thought I lost it when I started screaming at Bush "Finish a sentance -- can't we reanimate Reagan for just 15 minutes!"

[from the plaines]

This is completely off topic but I just wanted to ask while it was still on my mind. Guignol when it comes to your avatar, what style of art is that? I have really only seen it when it comes to French things. Like the Rugby and Soccer league logos and on CDs covers and other things to do with music.

[Douai]

"Au moins onze candidats au premier tour de l'élection présidentielle"
http://www.lemonde.fr/web/article/0,1-0@2-823448,36-884181,0.html

[Anthony]

"Au moins onze candidats au premier tour de l'élection présidentielle"
http://www.lemonde.fr/web/article/0,1-0@2-823448,36-884181,0.html

Today was the deadline, right?

[Douai]

Today was the deadline, right?

Yep.

[Anthony]

Yep.

One thing I am curious about (actually, I am curious about a great many things, but one thing at a time)

The signatures come from elected officials and given how local goivernment is organized in France, there are a huge number of local mayors and councilers. I understand that. However, how does someone like Arlette Laguiller get the right number of signatures? Are there that many elected Trotskeyites in France or do officials generally give signatures easily. Alternatively, would a UMP mayor give her a signature hoping to split the left vote?

[Douai]

However, how does someone like Arlette Laguiller get the right number of signatures? Are there that many elected Trotskeyites in France or do officials generally give signatures easily.

I was not aware that Laguiller obtained at least 500 signatures.I have heard that there is a lot of bribery and "arm breaking" done to obtain enough signatures.


Alternatively, would a UMP mayor give her a signature hoping to split the left vote?
Possibly, that isn't a bad idea, and that most likely occurred.

[Anthony]

I was not aware that Laguiller obtained at least 500 signatures.I have heard that there is a lot of bribery and "arm breaking" done to obtain enough signatures.

Has not she been on the ballot every election since 1974?

Will they have presidential debate?

[Pierre-Henri]

However, how does someone like Arlette Laguiller get the right number of signatures? Are there that many elected Trotskeyites in France or do officials generally give signatures easily. Alternatively, would a UMP mayor give her a signature hoping to split the left vote?

We even have a sectarian communist mystery party, le "Parti des Travailleurs", which is here at every election, even if you never hear about it otherwise.

The pool of possible signatures is huge, since we have 36 000 municipalities in France. It includes mayors from some tiny villages with 200 inhabitants or so, who are really pleased to give their signatures to anyone. Those redneck mayors simply don't care about politics.

[Nanbawan]

there are a huge number of local mayors and councilers. I understand that. However, how does someone like Arlette Laguiller get the right number of signatures? Are there that many elected Trotskeyites in France or do officials generally give signatures easily.

You gave the answer to your own question. When a mayor gives his signature, that does not mean he supports the guy he's given it to. Although, Le Pen once again somewhat mystified the media about his issues to get his, it is true that since 'sponsors' are publicly published afterwards, some people had problems related to the fact of having helped such or such candidacy.

The 'parrainage' is there to prevent foolish candidacies. Laguiller or Besancenot do have some 'legitimacy' in the electoral process given their results in other elections regardless of whether one finds them useful or not.

One of the other problem is that in the end, for the two past weeks, the questions of those signatures completely overshadowed the actual political debate. Some people consider that they should be dealt with earlier or simply replaced by a national public petition for each candidate.

[Nanbawan]

Will they have presidential debate?

Only after the first round, if there's to be one.

[ilv2]

hah if its still the big two parties that get through, sego is going to get crushed in the debate.

there's a video on dailymotion of the two debating a topic and sego goes completely bezerk at one point, hilarious to watch, i'll try to dig it up..

[Pierre-Henri]

Everything she says is completely meaningless, empty, void. With her, political verbalism has reached a new standard. It's amazing, and rather disquieting, to read the socialist program. You read the "100 proposals" and, at every line, you want to shout : but HOW will she do that ? With what billions ?

And her "Cahiers d'espérance" ? Ohhh Lord, it's so cheesy, so vapid, so mushy that it almost makes me cry.

A few years ago, Finkielkraut wrote an article entitled : "la Révolution Cuculturelle". He was talking about education, but the socialists took the complete educational failure of this country as a model for all their policies, in all other fields. Everything that didn't work in education spread to the whole country ! Soon, the whole country as efficient as our baccalauréat and as welcoming as our universities !

"La Révolution Cuculturelle" is on its way. Good thing my passport is up to date.

http://sauv.free.fr/archives/0,2320,seq-2070-63553-QUO,00.html

[Douai]

I really don't see the PS making it to the next round.Pierre-Henri, do you support the UMP?

[Nanbawan]

A few years ago, Finkielkraut

You mean, at the time when Finkielkraut was still supposed to say relevant things ?

[Pierre-Henri]

I'm not a member of any party, I don't really support anyone, and will probably vote for Bayrou.

I've never voted for the right, but I must say that today socialists are giving me the willies. In my opinion, politics are a place for logic and rationality. Rational problems, rational diagnoses, rational solutions. Royal does the exact opposite : her speeches are 100% based on pathos, feelings, tears, empathy and the like.

Ségolène Royal is not a politician, she is a televangelist.

I don't aim at her especially: the PS as a whole has taken this very bad curve.

Plus, I have a personnal (and professionnal) reason to despise the socialists. I was forced to resign from a job, as a teacher, mostly because of the left-wing unions. Since I'm a Phd in humanities, they have to power to really impair my career, and even prevent me from getting a job.

This requires a small explanation. In the USA, academics who are on the job market can choose to teach at any level (Private university and colleges, state universities, community college, etc.). Being rejected by University A doesn't mean that College B won't hire you, since they're independant. In France, the academic system is 100% public, and 100% centralized. Before you can teach, you have to be vetted by a national agency (CNU : Conseil National des Universités). This agency is run by unions. It means that :

- you have to be supported by unions, who are mostly socialists.
- if you are not supported by them, there is no second chance. Since the system is centralized, there is nowhere else you can go.

Since I refused to obey the socialist-inspired programs and methods of the Ministery of Education (which are stupid to the point of insanity), I can't teach anymore in France, no matter how good I am. Period.

The things I say will undoubtly sound completely nuts to people who don't know how the French educational system works. If you can read french, this article will help you :

http://www.unsa-education.org/sien/sections/lille/libpedPF.htm

Quote : "La liberté pédagogique s'oppose à la notion de professionnalisme, de compétence professionnelle. Elle s'oppose à la notion de responsabilité."

Rough translation : "Educational freedom is incompatible with the idea of professionalism, it is incompatible with the idea of professional competence. It is incompatible with the idea of responsability."

This person is in charge of educational matters ("Secrétaire Fédéral") at the PS. He is also a prominent member of the UNSA, a big left-wing Union. He is a very powerful person. And he is not joking : he really hates freedom.

I don't think I'm a right wing person. But I know the socialists. I know how they think (they think they are the "Good" incarnated, and that everyone else is nazi), I know how they work (reality doesn't matter anymore to them) and I know how they treat anyone who disagrees with them.

Segolène Royal ? No, thanks.

Someone else, a congressman, former member of the PS, had the same kind of painful eye-opener :

http://www.lemonde.fr/web/article/0,1-0@2-823448,36-883857@51-883866,0.html

[Douai]

Being rejected by University A doesn't mean that College B won't hire you, since they're independant. In France, the academic system is 100% public, and 100% centralized. Before you can teach, you have to be vetted by a national agency (CNU : Conseil National des Universités). This agency is run by unions. It means that :

- you have to be supported by unions, who are mostly socialists.
- if you are not supported by them, there is no second chance. Since the system is centralized, there is nowhere else you can go.
Wow that's pretty strict.

Since I refused to obey the socialist-inspired programs and methods of the Ministery of Education (which are stupid to the point of insanity), I can't teach anymore in France, no matter how good I am. Period.
Can you list a couple programs and methods that you feel are stupid?I want to know how bad they are.