L' Election Présidentielle 2007 / French Presidential Election [R]

[AllezParisAllezPSG]

the "Best-of" of the Guignol de l'Infos's sketches on the three main candidates...

Sarkozy (mms://vipmms.canalplus.fr/canalplus/guignols_070226_a.wmv)


haha, the HP commercial w/ sarkozy is absolutely great... i still think Jay Z is the man in that commercial though...

[Douai]

Sondage: Présidentielle 2007-1er Tour
Nicholas Sarkozy (UMP) 28%
François Bayrou (UDF) 23%
Ségolène Royal (PS) 23%
Jean-Marie Le Pen (FN) 13%

Source:
France 2: 20 Heures (News)

[Breakwood]

I think if Bayrou makes it to the second vote he'll take it. The socialist voters will back him, as opposed to Sarko.

[ilv2]

bayrou président de la république! LOL, a month or two ago, that was just crazy talk, but the way he's doing it pretty logical and very well played.

one of my classmates pointed out this site: www.commentonfait.fr, which analyzes the proposals of each candidates and allows internet users to debate the feasability or method of implentation. Who came in as the candidate with the most reasonable and astute program? Bayrou!

on another note, there's a poll released every other day it seems :rolleyes:

[Douai]

I think if Bayrou makes it to the second vote he'll take it. The socialist voters will back him, as opposed to Sarko.

Yeah, if Bayrou keeps this up he will be in a very good position.

[Douai]

"Après 40 ans de vie politique, M. Chirac ne briguera pas un troisième mandat"

http://www.lemonde.fr/web/article/0,1-0@2-823448,36-881463@51-843695,0.html

[Anthony]

I have a question on the way polls work in France.

In the US, during the last election, people were asked (i) Bush, (ii) Kerry, (iii) Nader, (iv) other, or (v) undecided. Different polls use different methodologies to determine how to decide where to place the vote (for example, someone might be asked "is your support for X strong or weak") but in the end, you have a number of people called "undecided".

In the French polls, while thw articles note a large number of people who may change their votes, the results themselves do not show any undecideds. Do the pollsters simply force someone to make a choice, then have them note how strong or weak the support is, or do the polls have a separate set of results on undecideds?

Thanks.

BTW -- one other thing I noticed was that in announcing he was not runing for reelection today, Chirac did not endorse Sarkozy. Does he hate Sarkozy so much he prefers the Socialists to win? Or is Chirac so unpopular that he figures an endorsement would hurt Sarkozy?

[guignol]

one other thing I noticed was that in announcing he was not runing for reelection today, Chirac did not endorse Sarkozy. Does he hate Sarkozy so much he prefers the Socialists to win?well, they don't go on vacation together that's for sure!:D

ironically i think they did (literally) some time ago, but in 1995 sarko supported balladur for president, and since then they've been at daggers drawn, and often used.

[Douai]

"Sarkozy "touché" par l'intervention de Chirac"

"PARIS, 12 mars (Reuters) - Nicolas Sarkozy a dit lundi avoir
été "touché" par les propos tenus par Jacques Chirac lors de
l'annonce qu'il ne briguerait pas un troisième mandat."

http://www.france24.com/france24Public/fr/nouvelles/france/20070312-france-reactions-politiques-discours-Chirac.html

[Douai]

"Nicolas Sarkozy sera-t-il adoubé par Jacques Chirac ?"

http://www.lemonde.fr/web/depeches/0,14-0,39-30076626@7-37,0.html

[Douai]

Supposely, Le Pen called Chirac the worst president in history.Do you agree with this statement?

[Pierre-Henri]

I don't. Chirac is some sort of conman, but he has a real, great, gigantic quality : he hates fanatics. He really hates them. He opposed Bush and is a true enemy of Le Pen for this reason.

Plus, he is not responsible of all the difficulties in the country. France is not a monarchy... well, not completely a monarchy. I mean, the president doesn't do everything. The Unions, for example, are also responsible for a lot of trouble here. And the weight of bureaucracy is so huge in France that even the president can't do a lot.

I don't say that Chirac was a good president. "Supermenteur" is a well deserved nickname. But I won't use him as a scapegoat. Real responsabilities are shared among many people, left and right.

[Douai]

"Le Pen s'assure d'une candidature aux présidentielles"
"PARIS, 14 mars (Reuters) - Jean-Marie Le Pen, président du
Front national, a annoncé mercredi avoir déposé 535 parrainages
d'élus au Conseil constitutionnel en vue de l'élection
présidentielle."

http://www.france24.com/france24Public/fr/nouvelles/france/20070314-le-pen-signatures.html

"Dominique Voynet a déposé ses signatures au Conseil constitutionnel"
"Dominique Voynet, candidate des Verts à la présidentielle, a annoncé jeudi qu'elle disposait de 648 signatures et s'est réjouie d'avoir pu y arriver sans l'aide du PS, en déposant au Conseil constitutionnel quelques dizaines de parrainages tout juste arrivés."

http://www.france24.com/france24Public/fr/administration/article-afp.html?id=070314191310.q20sqhm0&cat=france

[Anthony]

Question --

I know the deadline for signatures is tomorrow. Do they just accept the signatures or is there a challenge phase.

Also, who can sign. Is it just local mayors or any elected officials?

[from the plaines]

He opposed Bush and is a true enemy of Le Pen for this reason.
.


From what I read I thought Le Pen was not a huge fan of the US and Bush. One other thing how right wing is Sarko and Le Pen? It seems like from what I have read from the BBC F24 etc that the US's and Europes ideas of right wing are very differnt.

[Anthony]

From what I read I thought Le Pen was not a huge fan of the US and Bush. One other thing how right wing is Sarko and Le Pen? It seems like from what I have read from the BBC F24 etc that the US's and Europes ideas of right wing are very differnt.

I agree. Though Sarkozy is prehaps the closest thing to an American style conservative in France (at least of the fiscal conservative kind)

You have to figure that in every country, the issues are different. So what makes something conservative in one country is not in another. Libertarians, "small government" conservatives or fiscal conservatives who are not as interested in social conservatism would be considered "neoliberals" or liberals in Europe.

For me, the big problem of "left v. right" is that we are trying to fit into the modern world the seating arrangement at French National Convention meeting over 215 years ago. At the time the issues were clearer and very black and white -- did you stand for (i) the old regime, (ii) constitutional monarchy or (iii) a republic.

And even then, my understanding is that the left right seating arrangement was temporary. Later, the deputies sat in an opera house and how high you sat determined your radicalism. Those who sat lowest (the "marsh") supported constitutional monarchy, those in the middle (the "plain" but better known to history as the Girondists) supported a moderate republic while those highest up (the "mountain" or Montagnards, but in popular memory, the "Jacobins") supported a radical repuiblic.

When issues are not as clear cut, as they often are today, it is difficult to fit in this dichotomy. For their faults, the Political Compass and the Nolan Chart are better.

[Pierre-Henri]

Le Pen is deeply anti-american. He hates The United States, as most of his followers do. He even publicly supported Saddam Hussein for this reason. Oddly enough, the two extremes (nationalists and communists) share the same hate toward the USA.

You question is very difficult to answer since the French and American people have very different political priorities. For example, we don't care about moral issues. Death penalty is rejected by everyone (but Le Pen), and gun control is not an issue at all.

So, how to describes Sarkozy and le Pen ? Personally (but many people disagree), I think they are very different.

Le Pen is nationalist, xenophobic, deeply conservative. Don't forget he is a very old man, and he tries to make us believe that everything was better before. He talks to people who are nostalgic of the "good old times", when France was a great country, when we weren't under filthy foreign (ie American) cultural domination, when kids were nice with people, when everyone had a job, when crime was non-existent, when there weren't all those foreigners-who-don't-think-like-us in the streets, and the like. Of course, this dream-France never existed, but the people who vote for le Pen are nostalgic of it nevertheless.

Sarkozy is another kind of right-wing man. He is what we call a "libéral", ie a capitalist. He openly takes the United States for model. He promotes free entreprise, strong economy, reduction of bureaucracy, less involvement from the State in all economic matters. He insists on individual responsability, opportunism and creativity.

In fact, all of his values are run-of-the-mill policies in United States, but they are rather new (and very provocative) in France. France is much more to the left than United States : most french people truly cherish their welfare state. Even the traditional right, with Chirac, endorsed a very protective state. Someone like Ted Stanger even says that we are a bureaucracy-addicted nation. Frankly speaking, he may be right.

[Anthony]

You question is very difficult to answer since the French and American people have very different political priorities.

And that I think is the key. Certain things which are taken for granted in the US are probably considered radical in France, and vice versa. Countries have different priorities.

And while France is probably to the left of the US, it also is a more profoundly conservative country in many ways. It seems to me that the French distrust change. A Spanish friend once told me that Europeans do not like change because everytime there is a change, some horrible happens (he was thinking about the Spanish Civil War, but it is probably equally appropriate accross the continent). Hence, France never became communist despite the popularity of the Communist Party.

I get the feeling that despite change, Americans have a more positive view of change and the future than Europeans do. It is cultural. I grew up in one of the first parts of the US to be colonized and the oldest house in my town SUPPOSEDLY was built in 1700 (but was really rebuilt many times). One house. Everything else was much later. The church I attened was built in 1924 and it was considered old (there were older Protestant and Quaker churches). In Europe, you are surrounded by the memories of the ancients -- it gives you a dfferent outlook I think.

[Douai]

And while France is probably to the left of the US, it also is a more profoundly conservative country in many ways. In what ways?Actually, the United States is more conservative than France.

[Anthony]

In what ways?Actually, the United States is more conservative than France.

Read the rest of my post. That is how I feel so.