L' Election Présidentielle 2007 / French Presidential Election [R]

[Pierre-Henri]

With Houston choosing a soviet-like name (Dynamo) I thought Texas was also a communist state.

What will be their next MLS teams ? Lokomotiv San Antonio ? Dallas Partizan ? Austin Spartak ?

[Douai]

Yeah. Moving to the USA in order to avoid capitalism.... that's really clever, indeed. Not mytho-de-gauche at all :p .

And you, Nanbawan ? How many countries on earth are more leftist today than France ?

1) North Korea.
2) Cuba.
3) Venezuela.

Your choice ?
He has a point, Nanbawan.Most governments in the entire world are conservative.

[Douai]

Composition du gouvernement Fillon

Voici la composition du gouvernement dirigé par François Fillon, qui compte quinze ministres dont huit hommes et sept femmes. Il compte également quatre secrétaires d'Etat et un haut commissaire.


- Alain Juppé, ministre d'Etat, ministre de l'Ecologie, du développement et de l'aménagement durables

- Jean-Louis Borloo, ministre de l'Economie, des Finances et de l'Emploi

- Michèle Alliot-Marie, ministre de l'Intérieur, de l'Outre-mer et des collectivités territoriales

- Bernard Kouchner, ministre des Affaires étrangères et européennes

- Brice Hortefeux, ministre de l'Immigration, de l'Intégration, de l'Identité nationale et du Co-développement

- Rachida Dati, garde des Sceaux, ministre de la Justice

- Xavier Bertrand, ministre du Travail, des Relations sociales et de la solidarité

- Xavier Darcos, ministre de l'Education nationale

- Valérie Pécresse, ministre de l'Enseignement supérieur et de la Recherche

- Hervé Morin, ministre de la Défense

- Roselyne Bachelot-Narquin, ministre de la Santé, de la Jeunesse et des sports

- Christine Boutin, ministre du Logement et de la Ville

- Christine Lagarde, ministre de l'Agriculture et de la Pêche

- Christine Albanel, ministre de la Culture et de la communication, porte-parole du gouvernement

- Eric Woerth, ministre du Budget, des Comptes publics et de la Fonction publique


- Roger Karoutchi, secrétaire d'Etat auprès du Premier ministre, chargé des Relations avec le Parlement

- Eric Besson, secrétaire d'Etat auprès du Premier ministre, chargé de la Prospective et de l'évaluation des politiques publiques

- Dominique Bussereau, secrétaire d'Etat auprès du ministre d'Etat, ministre de l'Ecologie, du Développement et de l'aménagement durables, chargé des Transports

- Jean-Pierre Jouyet, secrétaire d'Etat auprès du ministre des Affaires étrangères et européennes chargé des affaires européennes

- Martin Hirsch, Haut commissaire aux solidarités actives contre la pauvreté.

http://www.france24.com/france24Public/fr/nouvelles/monde/20070518-gouvernement-sarkozy-france-fillon-kouchner.html

[Nanbawan]

Yeah. Moving to the USA in order to avoid capitalism.... that's really clever, indeed. Not mytho-de-gauche at all :p .

It has little to do with capitalism in his case ; I think it's mainly due to Sarko's position on immigration and expulsion of children, suburbs, etc.

And you, Nanbawan ? How many countries on earth are more leftist today than France ?


You seem to make the same error as many to only consider right and left by the economy policies ; on many values and issues, France is still a pretty conservative country.

French are mostly right wing petits bourgeois, if they aren't, they dream about reaching that status. Anyway, I would be in exile, so that could be anywhere since I would not be supposed to 'integrate' myself.

So, maybe the witch hunt has already started ; one of Libé reader complained on the website forum the other day that someone said he was a 'sale gauchiste' as he was reading his newspaper in the bus. Ambiance...

1) North Korea.
2) Cuba.
3) Venezuela.

Here we go again...:rolleyes:

Well, Cuba or Venezuela, it's not far from Martinique and Guadeloupe ; la pura vida, compañero !! And I'm sure there's good money to be made !! Ha ! Ha !

Your choice ?


Rennes (http://elections2007.ouest-france.fr/presidentielle/35/commune35238.html) ! :D


Nothing to do with how people voted in my coastal hometown...Putain de bourgeois ! Oh, retirees and elders too.

The funny thing is that I spent two years in high school at Rennes and I was surrounded by plenty of little fascists (and proud of it) from the aristocrat and bourgeois establishment. Needless to say that I kept quite unpleasant memories from this time. Yet, the truth is that Le Pen and the far right make some of their lowest scores in the capital city of Brittany, less than Besancenot ! So, I realised that I was among the milieu that constitutes the tiny far right electorate in Rennes...Pas de bol !

But you might be on something though. My repulsion for Sarko and his ilk might radicalise me for a while. But on the whole, I try to determine my thoughts with my convictions on Life, Truth and the essence of humanity. And yes, to make it short without a long ass post, I'm not satisfied with the way the World is going, I have not surrendered my mind yet. I don't like what drives all that and I'm not ashamed to hope for something better and express myself about it whenever I can or just feel like it.

A bon entendeur...

[Nanbawan]

He has a point, Nanbawan.Most governments in the entire world are conservative.

Hmm, no. There are many liberal governments in Europe ; the thing is that they're more pro free market in their economic policies than France regardless of the actual level of public spending.

The other thing is that being a foreigner in another country gives a different perception vis à vis domestic politics. At the moment, Sarko just releases the kind of things I've always disliked in the french mentality. And I agree, some of it can be found in many other countries but since I'm french, I'm obviously more sensitive and affected when it happens here.

Anyway, I did not say that I was about to flee ; it's just that if there's an opportunity, it shall add weight in the balance.

http://www.fahnenversand.de/fotw/images/f/fic%5Esplr.gif

La Résistance starts now ! :cool:

[Anthony]

Nanbawan how about this.

As it is fairly certain that a Democrat will be elected next year, can I flee to France and you can flee to the US.

We can swap homes.

I live in Chicago, in a nice part of the city, a short walk from the Zoo (the largest free zoo outside of the National Zoo in the US), Lincoln Park and Lake Michigan.

Illinois is not a People's Republic like North Korea or Boston, but Chicago has not elected a Republican mayor since the 1920s (liberal NY has had a GOP mayor for 14 years now.)

[ilv2]

He has a point, Nanbawan.Most governments in the entire world are conservative.

Firstly, what is your definition of conservative? And how, given this basis, are you making such a general judgement on "most governments" in the entire world.

---

Hope still lies in the scandinavian countries! :D The myth of the millions of employed, well-fed, and happy swedes living in their fantastic ikea furniture has spread like wildfire.

[Anthony]

The myth of the millions of employed, well-fed, and happy swedes living in their fantastic ikea furniture has spread like wildfire.


And they just elected a center right coalition that has called for cutting back the welfare state.

[Nanbawan]

Nanbawan how abou tthis.



You would not want to live in my house ! ;)

Well, except for the exceptional view that I enjoy : The Mont-Saint-Michel, the Normandy coast line and the Bay with the emerald sea. :p

I heard Washington State coast was a little bit like Brittany. Or simply North California like so many of my compatriots...Hmm, no. I'm crossed with the French ! LOL !

Maybe Northern Italy. Hmmm, the cuisine, yum !

My mom lives in Geneva and I've been there yearly since my childhood but there are too many banks ! I like going there on vacation but for some reasons I never felt like I would enjoy staying there.

The cheapest and simplest solution may just be to turn off the TV whenever it deals with...him for the next 5 years. ;)

PS : Le well tried !

[Anthony]

My mom lives in Geneva and I've been there yearly since my childhood but there are too many banks !

My wife's cousin's husband is a US diplomat in Gevena. They live right where the lake and the river cover together, opposite the old section of the city. On a clear day, you can see Mont Blanc (or Monte Bianco as my Italian cousins would prefer me to say!).

As for the banks, that is part of the reason I could live and work there, though I prefer Zurich (which for some reason I have not yet been able to explain, is my favorite city in Europe).

[ilv2]

And they just elected a center right coalition that has called for cutting back the welfare state.

If I remember correctly, they also introduced a measure similar to the CPE. But honestly, I don't see a whole lot to convince me that there is a huge movement to the right because of a couple tax cuts and some changes in employment law.

Ikea - standardized, fashionable furniture for all, even the poor and needy! The ultimate utopian social dream ;)

[Nanbawan]

On a clear day, you can see Mont Blanc (or Monte Bianco as my Italian cousins would prefer me to say!).


I don't live in a very rich quarter but I can see the Mont Blanc too from my mom's appartment.

in January, I left Geneva with a view on Mont-Blanc to spend a night at a friend's place in Paris where he has a view on the Eiffel Tower and came back in my house with the view on Mont-Saint-Michel. None of us is rich, so I found that funny when I thought about it.

[Nanbawan]

What will be their next MLS teams ? Lokomotiv San Antonio ? Dallas Partizan ? Austin Spartak ?

Red Star Fort Worth !

[Anthony]

I don't live in a very rich quarter but I can see the Mont Blanc too from my mom's appartment.

in January, I left Geneva with a view on Mont-Blanc to spend a night at a friend's place in Paris where he has a view on the Eiffel Tower

If you believe Hollywood, everyone in Paris (maybe everyone in France) has a view of the Eiffel Tower from their window!

and came back in my house with the view on Mont-Saint-Michel. None of us is rich, so I found that funny when I thought about it.

But you are rich in scenery. In the winter (when the leaves are gone), you can see the Hancock Tower from our house.

[Pierre-Henri]

It has little to do with capitalism in his case ; I think it's mainly due to Sarko's position on immigration and expulsion of children, suburbs, etc.

:confused: On all these issues, the US policies are worse than the french ones. How can one possibly say : "I go to the USA, because their ghettoes are better than the french ones" or "because social inequalities are less cruel there ?". Noah goes to the USA for only two reasons : take advantage of capitalism and pay less taxes. Period.

However, I agree that France is in fact more conservative that many other countries. You say that this conservatism comes from "bourgeoisie". Well, it's probably true. But don't forget the bureaucratic conservatism of our centralized, sovietic-inspired system of government. I can tell you, for example, that the conservatism of left-wing unions, in universities and education nationale, can easily be compared with the most fossilized of bourgeoisies.

In academia, there are plenty of places where you simply don't go if you don't belong to the good aristocracy. There are plenty of promotions or pay raises that you don't get if you don't belong to the good union. I could give you names of left-wing union activists who were tenured in french universities without any Phd and without any significative publication. The IUFM, especially, are full of them.

So, the right-wing bourgeois conservatism... if you want. But don't forget the left-wing bureaucratic conservatism. I'm certain that's the main reason why Sarkozy was elected. People are sick of these people taking all the good places for themselves, their friends and their children. They are sick of the SNCF, RATP, EDF, etc. aristocratic advantages. And the fact that these people repeatly claim they are "talking in the name of the poors" is driving the French crazy.

And everytime jetset bobos like Yannick Noah say : "I hate capitalism, so I move to the USA", the UMP gains more voters.

Maybe one day, somebody in the PS will understand all of this. Maybe one day, the socialists will stop being stupid and connect themselves with reality once again. Maybe one day, they will understand they're nailing their own coffin. Maybe one day, they'll stop being the "parti des fonctionnaires" and start talking to the whole nation.

However, until this day comes, the UMP will tear them in shreds over and over again...

[Pierre-Henri]

(too late to edit the previous message).

Well, I had to go, it would be somewhere in the North-Eastern part of America : the Canadian Maritimes, Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire...

Or maybe I'll turn crazy and chose some place in the middle of nowhere : Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, Dakota... Montana looks great. Just give me a rifle and a log cabin, and I'm in for the real life...

... as long I'm not far away from proper health care service, a good library and book shop, decent hygienic commodities, interesting places where I can meet interesting people, a warm and comfy bed, a securing neighbourhood :) .

[Douai]

As it is fairly certain that a Democrat will be elected next year, can I flee to France and you can flee to the US.



I don't think thats true.Do you honestly think that most of the United States will vote Democrat next year?Most likely Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama will be on their presidential ticket.They both are very alienating individuals.

Firstly, what is your definition of conservative? And how, given this basis, are you making such a general judgement on "most governments" in the entire world.

Right-wing.I heard somewhere that most of the world is.It may not be true.I didn't verify that, because it would take awhile to find out the political-leanings of most of the world's governments.

[ilv2]

Perhaps I'm sounding like a wide-eyed college student, but I think Barack can be a next JFK type figure. And imagine the US, which is largely viewed as racist, as one of the first (or the first no?) occidental countries to vote in a black president! One can hope... that actually might motivate me to give a damn about US politics.

As for right-wing (i'm assuming socially, because you didn't make a mention to economic policy), just looking at the large portion of EU member states and Latin American countries, Canada - here, my knowledge of Asia and Africa is really limited - the social programs and positions that the governments hold are fairly moderate, even leftist especially when it comes to environmental policy. Even though liberal economic policy will inevitably force reform in social policy at home, IMHO the general slant - if one can actually establish one - is a center/center-left stance. A good example of this is Chile. Secondly, as mentioned, it's fairly difficult to prescribe a general diagnosis of the world's political tendencies. Each country's politics are so unique that even if one comes up with several indicators that facilitate a blanket analysis, there'll always be a billion legitimate things that'll allow a critic to effectively argue "yes, but..."

[Anthony]

I don't think thats true.Do you honestly think that most of the United States will vote Democrat next year?Most likely Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama will be on their presidential ticket.They both are very alienating individuals.


For one thing, the immigration issue is going to tear the GOP apart (which is sad, as from what I see, the current bill, which Bush, McCain and Kennedy all agreed on, is I think a very good one). And if there is not either real progress or a withdrawal from Iraq by year end, the GOP is going to really be at each other throats. All the Democrats need to do is avoid making really big mistakes

While Clinton is a divisive figure, Obama is not.

So yes, I completely expect a Democrat to be elected next year (though I only have come to this conculsion in the last 2 months or so -- if you look at my thoughts on the midterms last year, you will see that I expected a Republican to win the presidency).

[Douai]

While Clinton is a divisive figure, Obama is not.



I can't seem him winning any southern states if he makes it that far.


Fillon: "il ne faut pas sous-estimer la bataille des législatives"
AFP 19.05.07 | 17h52


http://www.lemonde.fr/web/depeches/0,14-0,39-30953087@7-40,0.html

Nicolas Sarkozy chez Airbus et ses ministres déjà sur le terrain
LE MONDE | 19.05.07 | 14h10 • Mis à jour le 19.05.07 | 14h10
http://www.lemonde.fr/web/article/0,1-0@2-823448,36-912258@51-907099,0.html