Off season shake up at Old Trafford?

[rudeboy]

SAF has been taking about a shake up at Old Trafford. I am not sure who I would like to bring in that would fit into the mindset and team of United but I know who I would like to see leave.


1. Rio Ferdianad. This was a very bad and expensive purchase that hasn't panned out. He had a good world cup but that is it. He is very inconsistant in back and doesn't seem to fit in with the team.

2. Juan Veron. Again, another expensive purchase that hasn't really panned out. Two seasons at old trafford and nothing to really show for it.

3. Barthez. Barthez has made vast improvements from his play last year's form but needs to move on to allow other golies to come in and develop

4. Keane. Keane-o needs to retire. He doesn't have the pace to keep playing. He would make a great addition to the coaching staff, plus he is a liablitiy on the field with his anger.

5. Blanc. Needs to retire, too old and he is french

6. Fortune. Fortune needs to transfer so that he can actually get some playing time.

These are people I think need to leave. Any one agree or disagree?

[Father Ted]

Originally posted by rudeboy
SAF has been taking about a shake up at Old Trafford. I am not sure who I would like to bring in that would fit into the mindset and team of United but I know who I would like to see leave.


1. Rio Ferdianad. This was a very bad and expensive purchase that hasn't panned out. He had a good world cup but that is it. He is very inconsistant in back and doesn't seem to fit in with the team.

2. Juan Veron. Again, another expensive purchase that hasn't really panned out. Two seasons at old trafford and nothing to really show for it.

3. Barthez. Barthez has made vast improvements from his play last year's form but needs to move on to allow other golies to come in and develop

4. Keane. Keane-o needs to retire. He doesn't have the pace to keep playing. He would make a great addition to the coaching staff, plus he is a liablitiy on the field with his anger.

5. Blanc. Needs to retire, too old and he is french

6. Fortune. Fortune needs to transfer so that he can actually get some playing time.

These are people I think need to leave. Any one agree or disagree?

1. I don't agree on Rio, the defence is much better than last year, we've conceed the least goals in EPL.
2. Veron will probably stay mainly because we will not get near what we paid for him. Also he did better this year.
3. Barthez has got to go.
4. Thank Keano, but you're done.
5. He is already retiring...plus he hasnt played that much this year.
6. Fortune - a non factor really.

[Motterman]

Disagree on Rio and Veron. All the rest I agree.

Rio is still young. He hasn't had a week-in and week-out central defensive partner, add in the time he missed early on in the season and it's not that bad. Now, 30 mil on a defender who has not been that bad is a disaster of sorts. However, despite the fact that he didn't look good enough against Real Madrid, we still have the best defensive record in the League. Keep him.

Veron. He improved immensely in his league appearances this year, and has, until last night, been a diamond in Europe. We bought him for Europe and that's where he shines. If we get another player for the "slot" position behind Ruud, then I think we could probably sell Veron. However, I'd rather see a strike partner for Ruud so Veron has 2 targets to pick out up front.

Keano - claimed he was back to his best and then didn't do the business against Real. Would he accept playing in the back line - as a sub?

Fortune - thanks, but you're no Jesper Blomqvist

Blanc and Barthez - Au Revoir

[cachundo]

Finally, a thread all its own. The United-Real thread is morphing into a postulation of what should/should not happen next year. Let's post those kind of thoughts in here instead.

It seems like the obvious question is:

"What changes, if any, need to be made to win the 2004 Champions League?"

One needs to realize that United played against, arguably, the best club in the world, and "won" a leg. But that result was not enough to overhaul the results from the disastrous away leg, and the goals conceded at home.

Remember, we beat Juventus - twice. There's proof that we can win against the best in Europe. We just can't win against the class of a Real Madrid. Even if we didn't meet Real on this stage, with all that class Real displayed on both legs, I have little doubt that a United-Real final would have still meant a victory for the Spaniards.

So what's the magic formula? Is it new players? Is it new tactics? Or maybe a little bit of both?

Forward . As good as Ruud is, and has been, in all competitions, does he really need a partner on top? Would Ruud have scored more/less playing with a Solskjaer/other in a partnership? When you look at other teams, Real really play with just Ronaldo on top, with Raul just behind. Inter has Vieri alone on top. Is there really a great need to acquire another forward to pair up with Ruud for CL competition?

Midfield . I think this is where the moves are going to be made. Personally, I'd keep Giggs, Becks, Scholes, & Veron. That's four world-class mids right there; four more than most other clubs have. Butt - I'd keep but not start. Keane - time to retire or move to the defense. I would really like to get a defensive-minded mid from Europe, in the mold of an Edgar Davids.

Defense . I echo the sentiments of most here. The defense is still young, so there's a tremendous upside to the defense. Another year might see a dramatic improvement to all the incumbents. Rio may never be worth the amount that SAF paid for him, but next season might see him make the case for England's best defender. O'Shea has been a revelation. Brown is OK for now and for next year. I have never been a fan of the Nevilles, and I wouldn't shed a tear if SAF sold them. Keane pairing with Rio is an intriguing idea. However, I'd rather use the money they're paying Keane to raid cash-strapped Lazio for Stam. Bring back Jaap! Or if the rumors about 'Giggs-to-Inter' turn out to be true - get two among Coco, Materazzi, and diBiagio.

Goalkeeper. When he's bad, Barthez really looks bad. My question is - is Barthez going to get better? Personally, I think we've seen the best from Barthez. Perhaps it's time to take a closer look at Ricardo, or at another GK.

Just my $0.02.

[Fussballman 7]

I really hope we made a hard bid to get Ronaldihno.

[sch2383]

I say bring in Brad for Barthez, but I guess we would only have the money for that if we sold Giggs or Beckham.

As for Keane, I say give him a summer to get in shape and get healthy and lets judge him then. Remember how he played against Aresnal, he didn't looked washed up then. Yeah, he probably won't rule the midfield again like he did, but I don't want to see him end like this.

Also bringing in Ronaldinho would just crowd up the lineup, unless we play him up top, but that would mean SAF changes formation. I guess we will only see what SAF's plan is in time.

[bc939kdl]

Keane should leave I think, he looks really washed up. Anyone know why Becks wasn't brought in until late in the game?

[idi amin]

Keep Van Nist, o Shea, 1 Neville, Veron and gut the team. rebuilding from close to scratch will be better than tinkering a little every year and winning nothing. With that Beckham money from Madrid buy D'allesandro (River Plate),Postiga,Deco(Porto) and Duff and maybe you match the Man u of old which used to win actual silverware. Just some constructive criticism.

[BrianJ 22]

Originally posted by rudeboy


1. Rio Ferdianad. This was a very bad and expensive purchase that hasn't panned out. He had a good world cup but that is it. He is very inconsistant in back and doesn't seem to fit in with the team.

4. Keane. Keane-o needs to retire. He doesn't have the pace to keep playing. He would make a great addition to the coaching staff, plus he is a liablitiy on the field with his anger.


6. Fortune. Fortune needs to transfer so that he can actually get some playing time.




I agree with those three.

Rio: He did help strengthen the defense but I don't believe any defender is worth 30 million

Keane: He hasn’t been charging up the field and stealing possession like he used to. Keane also suffered a lot of injuries this season.

Fortune: He is a decent player. However, United's standards are so high even a player like fortune can't fit in. He deserves to play more with another club.

....................................................
Who I think might leave

Giggs: He is 29 and had a dream football career with United. But I think its time SAF give some young left footed a chance.

[BrianJ 22]

Originally posted by bc939kdl
Anyone know why Becks wasn't brought in until late in the game?

Because of Roberto carlos...1 on 1 situations

[sch2383]

I don't see the reasoning for getting rid of Rio. Yes, he hasn't played up to his price tag, but I think we need to give him time. We have already paid the fee, we might as well give him time to develop.

[NNCRed]

With either Giggs or Beckham leaving (or perhaps both) and maybe Duff coming in, I would like to see Chadwick get a good look at the other wide midfield spot. It would be a lot of fun to see Duff and Chadwick running at defenders from the wings, ideally creating more space for RVN and co. in the middle.

[SankaCofie]

Originally posted by rudeboy

4. Keane-o... He would make a great addition to the coaching staff, plus he is a liablitiy on the field with his anger.



how can you say that he'd be a great addition to the coachign staff... and then point out the he's a headcase in the same sentance? what, suddenly his lunacy is beneficial when its from the sidelines??

[JBlazini24]

Ronaldo and Raul are a forward pair, as are Vieri and Crespo. Sure, one might play slightly behind the other, but they're still a pair of forwards.

No one is paired with RVN. We need another threat, whether it's next to RVN or right behind him.

I like the idea of Rio and Keane in back. We'll need to get another midfield destroyer though, so let's hope we get Davids. Didn't I read in an article that he "admired" Man U, or something like that? GET HIM.

Don't wanna see Giggs or Beckham go, but I guess I'll have to face facts and realize their days are numbered. I'd much rather see Veron out -- I never liked the signing and I doubt I ever will.

DUMP BARTHEZ.

[Dark Savante]

I posted this fin the Man U vs Real thread:

I do think changes will be made in the summer...I think the shopping list should be as follows..

-1 world class Goalie preferably a proven star
-1 world class right back see above ( O Shea has been brilliant on the left)
-1 defensive midfielder (pls try to get davids!)
-1 Ronaldinho if he will go to O T - atrue dribbler in the centre would devestate teams
-1 of the top 10 strikers in the world alongside VNR (you spend the money you get the quality!)

That little lot would cost ALOT of money but it would bring Man U up to the expenditure and squad quality of the teams they compete with in the CL's latter stages and not have then ruled by heart and passion so much but also by a fearsome team who WILL nail you whenever you make mistakes (see all the chances they had last night but failed to score from!)

HEre's hoping.

It cannot go unoted that all the teams left in CL have an elite forward line with 2 world class strikers upfront!! Inzaghi and Sheva Vieri and Crespo Del Piero Trezeguet Ronaldo & Raul... Double distraction = devestating effect. in 99 when Yorke was looking like baby pele and Cole was scoring goals as well Man U looked lethal on every attack and oppostion had trouble containing them.. Now Van Nistlerooy is the best striker Man U have ever had (he will break ALL records in double quick time) and if you put a proven star up front with him the results would be amazing. It doesn't really matter to me if it's an elite support striker or an out and out striker as long as they score goals and are a constant threat. Support Strikers are rarer tho (the rauls Del Piero's Saviolas etc) If Shevhecko could be pried away from AC Milan that would be one of the best partnerships in the world both on paper and in proof.

--------------Rutsu???
-----Keane/Silvestre--Ferdinand--
--????----------------------O Shea--
-------------Davids------
------Scholes---------Giggs??
------------Ronaldinho
---------VNR--------Sheva

Scholes and Ronaldinho would switch positions instinctively.. Just a guess at a team even tho i doubt whether Giggs will be at MAn U next season along with Beckham i think he will be sold. Not sure who for the right back position (if only cafu was 8 years younger lol) . Although Davids is getting older he has that Cafu type engine and is not due to break down for at least another 4 years and with all the experience he has he'd protect the backline as well as 99KEane...Could Ferguson handle such a temprament tho?

[Motterman]

Ted Beckham on his son's demand to be transferred being reported by the UK Press: "I don't think he wants to go anywhere. He loves it at United - that's where his heart is. On Wednesday after the game he told me he was disappointed, devastated really, about not being chosen for the game. I think he should have played, but I would say that being his dad. Sir Alex Ferguson usually gets it right, but this time I think he got it wrong. He made a difference when he came on and hope he stays in the team on Sunday against Tottenham, where I have got a few mates, and I hope David puts three past them. My gut feeling is he will stay. He never said a word to me about Madrid. The other night, I'm not being funny, most people including me believe he should have been brought on at half time at least. He changed it round and more started happening when he got on the pitch. He's never said he wants to leave United and all this stuff in the national papers is just nonsense. He has been there 11 years. Everything gets blown up. All that stuff about a boot being kicked in the dressing room. That was built up into something it wasn't. There are tempers in the dressing room after games and this sort of thing happens."

[Father Ted]

For those of you in favor of moving Keane back to the defence, forget it. He can be used there in emergency situations but in all reality he is finished. He is not the Keane of 99 and he is being kept in the team because of loyalty. Time to move on.

[Dark Savante]

Originally posted by Father Ted
For those of you in favor of moving Keane back to the defence, forget it. He can be used there in emergency situations but in all reality he is finished. He is not the Keane of 99 and he is being kept in the team because of loyalty. Time to move on.

I find your attitude towards Keane to be extremely harsh and unloyal to a player who was simply the best defensive midfielder in the world for at least 3 years out in front ahead of Davids and before Viera became what he is today. I'll admit he can't play defensive mid anymore but to just ship him out is cold.. He is Ferguson's 'long lost son' and there's no way he would just get dumped as coldy as you think he should be...i mean what do you think Ferguson should say? "ah Roy lad your past it..it's been good havin yer but time for ye to **** off now!" lol that shouldn't and won't happen whilst Ferguson is boss. Keane has the experience, the reading of the game and mst importantly the respect of his teamates to play in a defensive role. somewhere he can conserve energy and lay the ball off to the people in midfield. Ferdinand would then excel cos he would have a defined role as well. Don't forget Keanes organisational skills are excellent he'd be brilliant in defence. He's still 4 times faster than a Heirro or Tony Adams and reads the game just as well so why would you suggest he should just be dumped like a lead weight?
:(

[cosmosRIP]

Fergie's targets: Who'll replace Becks? (http://soccernet.espn.go.com/headlinenews?id=265139&cc=5739)

[gildarkevin]

Originally posted by sch2383
I don't see the reasoning for getting rid of Rio. Yes, he hasn't played up to his price tag, but I think we need to give him time. We have already paid the fee, we might as well give him time to develop.

Exactly. If you sell Ferdinand now, there's no way you get anything near what you paid. All that happens is that you've sold an extremely talented, young defender whose talent won't peak for another 5 years anyway. And one who has finally meshed with his fellow defenders after some early season injury/getting to know you issues.

Did United overpay for him? Probably. But that was the man they wanted and that's who they got. Should they get rid of him. No freaking way.