Rivalry that were limited by time frame.

[Excape Goat]

This thread is about the rivalries that were limited by time frame. I meant rivalries such as the current one between Barcelona and Chelsea, or AC Milan and Olympique Marseille in the early 1990's.

So which one was the greatest?

Real Madrid-Benfica early 1960's.
AC Milan-Olympique Marseille early 1990's.
AC Milan-Barcelona early 1990's(This one is interesting that the rivalry spilled into the Spain-Italy quaterfinal at WC 1994)

Was there a rivalry between Ajax and Bayern Munich in the early 1970's?


I actually ranked the current one between Barcelona and Chelsea very high in the order based on the fact that both teams kept drawing against each other.

[Bertje]

Well Ajax once beat Bayern 5-0 in a friendly at Munich in 1972. That didn't make Bayern very happy. Not much later after that Ajax scored four times in the European Champion's Cup against them, ending 4-0 in one of the very best matches ever. Didn't make them very happy either. For the return Cruijff didn't want to play, because it wasn't needed. Didn't... you get the picture.

And then there is ofcourse Cruijff's 'farewell' match in 1978. Most of the same Bayern players defeated us by 8-0. That didn't do much for our love for them. You can say there was a rivalry, but I think it has more to do with Dutchmen and Germans in general.

[Gregoriak]

Well Ajax once beat Bayern 5-0 in a friendly at Munich in 1972.

Due to the Olympics being held in Munich in September 1972, the German domestic league only started in late-September 72. When Ajax played Bayern in that friendly, the domestic Dutch league had already started while Bayern had just been in training for a week or so. This may explain the result.

That didn't make Bayern very happy. Not much later after that Ajax scored four times in the European Champion's Cup against them, ending 4-0 in one of the very best matches ever. Didn't make them very happy either. For the return Cruijff didn't want to play, because it wasn't needed. Didn't... you get the picture.

When you watch the 4-0, it is interesting to see that Bayern was the dominating side in the first 55 minutes. Ajax were pretty lucky winning that game by four goals if you consider the complete 90 minutes (and Sepp Maier made two or even three crucial blunders). 2-1 or so would have been a more deserved score.

[Excape Goat]

Well Ajax once beat Bayern 5-0 in a friendly at Munich in 1972. That didn't make Bayern very happy. Not much later after that Ajax scored four times in the European Champion's Cup against them, ending 4-0 in one of the very best matches ever. Didn't make them very happy either. For the return Cruijff didn't want to play, because it wasn't needed. Didn't... you get the picture.

And then there is ofcourse Cruijff's 'farewell' match in 1978. Most of the same Bayern players defeated us by 8-0. That didn't do much for our love for them. You can say there was a rivalry, but I think it has more to do with Dutchmen and Germans in general.

I guess it was liked Benfica and Real madrid where the champ vs the pretender type of rivalry. I assumed that Cruyff had left for Barcelona by time Bayern Munich came into being. Perhaps, the rivalry would be Cruyff vs Ajax back then.

[Bertje]

When you watch the 4-0, it is interesting to see that Bayern was the dominating side in the first 55 minutes. Ajax were pretty lucky winning that game by four goals if you consider the complete 90 minutes (and Sepp Maier made two or even three crucial blunders). 2-1 or so would have been a more deserved score.

The goalkeeper is also part of a time and that means his blunders are just as much blunders of the team as a blunder of for example a midfielder. You also seem to forget another ball was kicked off your goalline after another blunder from Maier.

[Bertje]

I guess it was liked Benfica and Real madrid where the champ vs the pretender type of rivalry. I assumed that Cruyff had left for Barcelona by time Bayern Munich came into being. Perhaps, the rivalry would be Cruyff vs Ajax back then.

Cruijff never really had problems with Ajax. Later on he had some trouble with the board (and earlier he also had some), but he often trained with Ajax when he was in Amsterdam.

[Excape Goat]

Cruijff never really had problems with Ajax. Later on he had some trouble with the board (and earlier he also had some), but he often trained with Ajax when he was in Amsterdam.

Didn't he have some problems with his teammates? Or am I thinking of someone else?

[Bertje]

Well, the main reason for Cruijff's departure was just the thought of making more money in Spain. Yet their was also a break in the group. Piet Keizer, who used to be captain but had turned down the captainship, had problems with Cruijff being the biggest star and Cruijff appointing himself as leader of the group and got help from some less talented players, mainly Arie Haan (a trick the bastard would repeat at Anderlecht).

Cruijff decided to leave, but he never had a real problem with Ajax, just some individual problems with some players.

[621380]

The goalkeeper is also part of a time and that means his blunders are just as much blunders of the team as a blunder of for example a midfielder. You also seem to forget another ball was kicked off your goalline after another blunder from Maier.

yes blunders are blunders and maier did some in this game....so it was still a deserved win for ajax....additional i have point out in perspectice that gerd müller was still affected from a particulare broken calfbone..doctors found it out only 2 weeks before this game with ajax....the injury he suffered 2 weeks earlyer in a leaque match in berlin , (4 weeks before the ajax match)..he was taken out of 2 leaque games with pains.....there was a wrong diagnostic of doctors after the berlin game..
müller pretty much was useless in this game against ajax, but anyway bayern has played with him in this match and it hasent worked out...............

[621380]

The goalkeeper is also part of a time and that means his blunders are just as much blunders of the team as a blunder of for example a midfielder. You also seem to forget another ball was kicked off your goalline after another blunder from Maier.

yes blunders are blunders and maier did some in this game....so it was still a deserved win for ajax....additional i have point out in perspectice that gerd müller was still affected from a particulare broken calfbone..doctors found it out only 2 weeks before this game with ajax....the injury he suffered 2 weeks earlyer in a leaque match in berlin , (4 weeks before the ajax match)..he was taken out of 2 leaque games with pains.....there was a wrong diagnostic of doctors after the berlin game..
müller pretty much was useless in this game against ajax, but anyway bayern has played with him in this match and it hasent worked out...............

[Bertje]

yes blunders are blunders and maier did some in this game....so it was still a deserved win for ajax....additional i have point out in perspectice that gerd müller was still affected from a particulare broken calfbone..doctors found it out only 2 weeks before this game with ajax....the injury he suffered 2 weeks earlyer in a leaque match in berlin , (4 weeks before the ajax match)..he was taken out of 2 leaque games with pains.....there was a wrong diagnostic of doctors after the berlin game..
müller pretty much was useless in this game against ajax, but anyway bayern has played with him in this match and it hasent worked out...............

Ajax was also missing its best central defender, so that pretty much evens things out.

As soon as Ajax started to up the tempo (Cruijff started playing upfront instead of in midfield) Bayern got a beating.

[621380]

Due to the Olympics being held in Munich in September 1972, the German domestic league only started in late-September 72. When Ajax played Bayern in that friendly, the domestic Dutch league had already started while Bayern had just been in training for a week or so. This may explain the result.



.

the friendly game (0:5)against ajax was one of the first games (the third)in the new season for bayern ..the leaque has startet few weeks later..this explains a bit the high homedefeat.. a other important reason was .... bayern has played 24 hours earlyer a game against bayern rival 1860 munich..5 days later in amsterdam bayern was defeated only 2:1. müller scoring the goal for bayern.....

maybe bertie can point reasons for the high 0:8 defeat of ajax against bayern in cruijffs farewell game in den haag 1978..

rummennige some months ago (very late)has apolygized for the 8:0 defeat of ajax against bayern..(rummennige,müller and breitner was the goalscorers, beckenbauer(in usa) and hoeness didnt play for bayern)...but he has pointed out the situation wasnt very friendly 1978 against the bayern team and cruijff had pointed out he await from bayern a good game ......

here is a link

http://shortnews.stern.de/web/id/621350/robot/1/x_id/Fu%C3%9Fball:%20Bayern%20M%C3%BCnchen%20entschuldigt%20sich%20nach%20fast%2030%20Jahren%20bei%20Ajax%20Amsterdam/start.cfm

[621380]

[QUOTE=Bertje;10289960] For the return Cruijff didn't want to play, because it wasn't needed. Didn't... you get the picture.

QUOTE]

my resources claim cruijff was injured and this was the reason he did not play in munich...cruijff wasnt intrest travelling to munich and watching the game...president jaap van praag has awaited from cruijff to be in munich, but cruijff wasnt intrest....the story is a bit diffrent than your story..

[Bertje]

Well, he was injured, but he was injured so often. He didn't have some huge injury and Cruijff used to be a bit of a whiner, so most of the time he'd just get the needle and go play.

[Gregoriak]

The goalkeeper is also part of a time and that means his blunders are just as much blunders of the team as a blunder of for example a midfielder. You also seem to forget another ball was kicked off your goalline after another blunder from Maier.


Yes, the goalkeeper is a major part of a team. That's why Ajax found it so easy to score against Bayern in that game. ;) It was a lucky coincidence for Ajax that Sepp Maier had his worst ever game in Europe that night. A result like 2-0 for Ajax would have mirrored the events on the pitch more adequately.

[unclesox]

Because they border each other, Holland and Belgium are rivals but the period of the 70s and 80s saw some good battles.
-- Belgium lost out to Holland on goal difference in 1974 World Cup qualifying despite not conceding a goal!
-- Holland knocked Belgium out of the 1976 European Nations Cup at the quarter-final stage.
-- Belgium were again beaten by Holland in 1978 World Cup qualifying, though in more convincing fashion this time.
-- Belgium topped their 1982 World Cup qualifying group ahead of Holland this time, Holland losing out to France for the second qualifying spot in the group.
-- For the 1986 World Cup, Holland and Belgium met up in a playoff with the winner going to Mexico. After losing the 1st leg 0-1, Holland were leading 2-0 in a festive De Kuip Stadium when Georges Grun's header five minutes from time quieted the crowd and put Belgium through on away goals.

More recently, while preparing to co-host EURO 2000, the two nations met in a 1999 friendly that produced 9 yellow cards, one sending off and ten goals (each side scoring five). :cool: