Whos better Lampard or Gerrard?

[three lions]

Not entirely correct. Under Eriksson, Lampard won England Player of The Year two years runnnig between 2005 and 2006. I could never understand why he got ripped so badly by the fans. The problems were always issues with the twam as a whole, not with his individual form.

I would tend to agree with Bigman on this one... Sven's use of the 4-4-2 with Lampard and Gerrard in the middle was for the most part non effective. He was never consistent, and had many poor games. In Capello's 4-2-3-1 system, Lampard has been given a specific role in which to concentrate on, and he has played consistently well in that system. Lampard has become a more effective and energetic player, thanks in a huge part to Capello..

[ranny fash]

The other big issue with the Gerrard/Lampard/Sven/442 conundrum, was that the player on the right side of that midfield 4 was always a Beckham who was waaay past his best, and whose game had become so one dimensional that the other midfielders hardly had a kick for the 90 minutes, what with the endless 50-yard passes flying over their heads and into touch.

But I think that debate has just possibly been touched on before?

[billyireland]

No, not enough. I would like to put forward a motion of continuing this conversation quite a while longer.

[ranny fash]

Ha, can't tell if that was sarcastic or sincere!

[Harry Boulton]

The other big issue with the Gerrard/Lampard/Sven/442 conundrum, was that the player on the right side of that midfield 4 was always a Beckham who was waaay past his best, and whose game had become so one dimensional that the other midfielders hardly had a kick for the 90 minutes, what with the endless 50-yard passes flying over their heads and into touch.

But I think that debate has just possibly been touched on before?


See, whilst Beckham was perceived to be "way past his best", he was still the only midfielder who was contributing anything. He was still setting up a fair few of Englands goals, be it from deep crosses or from set-pieces and at least he was aware of the space in behind him. His pace, or what ever pace he had, had left him so he was protecting his flank and staying deep, which is more than could be said for laurel and hardy in the centre.

Lampard and Gerrard were generally running round like headless chickens either running into each other or leaving mah-husive gaps behind them, and the player on the left was either Scholes, Hargreaves or Cole, neither of which are comfortable there and or contributing much.

What they needed, all of them, was a manager to give them a role to play, rather than assign them a position on the pitch.

Now, you have Lampard dictating the possession in the centre of the park because, as we've touched on, positionally he's a more diciplined player than Gerrard. On the right we have some pace in either Walcott or Lennon, which helps to stretch the play. And Capello's handling of Gerrard is bordering on the genius. He starts out on the left, but that's just a starting position for him. He's allowed to come inside and play with the front players, Rooney and Heskey, which brings out the best in his game. His understanding with Rooney is becoming more and more impressive by the game. Gerrard himself has said that he's very happy with the role Capello has given him.

[mshankb]

All Beckham has done for the last 4-5 years is get in everyone's way.

[thebigman]

All Beckham has done for the last 4-5 years is get in everyone's way.

yeah, he never tried hard and gets assists or anything, what a shit player

capello knows nothing using beckham!!!

sakc capello!!!

[mshankb]

I'm talking about when he was a guaranteed starter despite being way, way past his best, when he would constantly drift inside and crowd the centre, when he would come back to the 18 yard box to pick up the ball.

[thebigman]

yeah, but most midfielders on that team were all over the shop

especially gerrard, people talk about beckhams positional discipline back then, but gerrard was running around like a headless chicken

[three lions]

the biggest recipe for disaster was when the Downing, Lampard, Gerrard, and Beckham midfield was thrown together.. Becks on the right and Beckham Lite playing on the left, with Lampard and Gerrard not working well together..Thankfully, those days have long past..

[ranny fash]

I'm talking about when he was a guaranteed starter despite being way, way past his best, when he would constantly drift inside and crowd the centre, when he would come back to the 18 yard box to pick up the ball.

Spot on.

Beckham......absolutely class player at his peak, nobody better at patrolling the right and pinging perfect crosses in. Remember, this is what he is (still!) great at.

But for some reason some dipshit decided to play him more centrally (I partly blame Real for this, and partly the media over-hyping of beck's ability), thus giving Becks himself the overconfidence to continually drift inside and further back in search of possession. This is not, never has been, and never will be his game! He simply doesn't have the football brain, or indeed the ability to be effective playing that way. So why Eriksson and McLaren persevered with this insane tactic is totally beyond me.

The result of this? England losing possession cheaply all the time, and our best players never getting on the ball at all. Brilliant!

In a nutshell, Lampard and Gerrard as a midfield in a 4-4-2 was always going to be a difficult one. But playing Beckham in the same team destroyed any chance of it ever working.

Capello is the best thing to happen to England since Brian Clough.

[billyireland]

Except that Brian Clough never happened to England. ;)

[ranny fash]

See, whilst Beckham was perceived to be "way past his best", he was still the only midfielder who was contributing anything. He was still setting up a fair few of Englands goals, be it from deep crosses or from set-pieces and at least he was aware of the space in behind him. His pace, or what ever pace he had, had left him so he was protecting his flank and staying deep, which is more than could be said for laurel and hardy in the centre.

Lampard and Gerrard were generally running round like headless chickens either running into each other or leaving mah-husive gaps behind them, and the player on the left was either Scholes, Hargreaves or Cole, neither of which are comfortable there and or contributing much.



See the thing is, England were rubbish then. We should have been scoring more goals and playing better. Beckham playing the way he did for england in that period, totally stopped the team from working*. He might have been setting up a fair portion of England's goals, but to be honest, we didn't score many, and they were mostly from set pieces.

Beckham doesn't and has never, offered anything in his game other that extremely high quality deliveries from the right. You can't play a system that relies so heavily on such a one-dimensional player and expect to get anywhere. We had other players who offered so much more creativity, but they never got the chance to get the ball down and play, largely because of Beckham's shift from just sticking to the right touch line, to coming inside and demanding possession. It just did not work at all!

Since Capello has come in, he has seen this problem, and sorted it. Beckham is now effective when he plays for England. I think he still plays well, when he is told to stick to doing what he does best. Stick to the right, boy!

*OK, Beckham's greedy possesion play AND Sven's stupid tactics both contributed heavily to England being completely one-dimensional and useless.

[ranny fash]

Lampard and Gerrard were generally running round like headless chickens either running into each other or leaving mah-husive gaps behind them, and the player on the left was either Scholes, Hargreaves or Cole, neither of which are comfortable there and or contributing much.

What they needed, all of them, was a manager to give them a role to play, rather than assign them a position on the pitch.

Now, you have Lampard dictating the possession in the centre of the park because, as we've touched on, positionally he's a more diciplined player than Gerrard. On the right we have some pace in either Walcott or Lennon, which helps to stretch the play. And Capello's handling of Gerrard is bordering on the genius. He starts out on the left, but that's just a starting position for him. He's allowed to come inside and play with the front players, Rooney and Heskey, which brings out the best in his game. His understanding with Rooney is becoming more and more impressive by the game. Gerrard himself has said that he's very happy with the role Capello has given him.


This, I agree with pretty much entirely!

[ranny fash]

Except that Brian Clough never happened to England. ;)

It was a joke! God....:D

[thebigman]

i remember beckham playing quite well centrally in madrids system and he has the ability to play balls from there

but we dont want to accomodate beckham, we want to accomodate superior players like rooney or gerrard which capello is doing by playing rooney in a deeper position behind a target man (thank god) and giving gerrard a free role

[billyireland]

It was a joke! God....:D
Less of that stuff 'round here, now...

[leg_breaker]

I'm talking about when he was a guaranteed starter despite being way, way past his best, when he would constantly drift inside and crowd the centre, when he would come back to the 18 yard box to pick up the ball.

And yet he still single-handedly beat Ecuador and Paraguay when Gerrard and Lampard couldn't hit the broad side of a barn.

[Matt Clark]

Capello is the best thing to happen to England since Brian Clough.
Brian Clough made Ron Greenwood happen to England.

Plus, I'd have thought the semi-finals in 1990 and 1996 are still rather more impressive than one serene qualifying campaign. Eriksson managed those too. More than once, in fact.

Capello is great. But let's postpone the coronation for now, eh?

[ranny fash]

it was over the top and a jokey remark not to be taken seriously