Whos better Lampard or Gerrard?

[the_hanibal]

Which system would that be? The 4-3-3 Chelsea used the last 2 years, the midfield diamond Mourinho insists upon this season, or the traditional 4-4-2 he played in under Ranieri?

I THING THE MIDFIELD DIAMOND

[leg_breaker]

Lampard plays pretty much the same role in every system. He doesn't get messed about like Gerrard does. Gerrard is more dynamic, more dangerous and more of a big game player. He can fit into any system, whereas Lampard needs any system to fit into him.

[United Pumps]

Gerrard is a complete player who is better than Lampard at everything. Lampard scores lots of goals but that's mainly because he's working with players such as Drogba, Essien, Terry, Cech and Cole. Gerrard gets to work with such greats as Pennant, Zenden, Finnan and Crouch.

[snigacookie]

lampard is only good because hes surrounded by better players that give him unbelievable passes. Gerrard is a box-to-box player which is something Lampard will never be.

[Walter3000]

I've never watched a Chelsea match.

fixed

[comme]

Doing so will indicate who the better player is. It might also answer the questions surrounding Lampard only being able to 'perform' in one system.

So the better player is the one who is more versatile then?

What a complete and utter load of rubbish.

[fharP0ST]

what a wonderful goals by Gerrard. He is best.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

So the better player is the one who is more versatile then?

What a complete and utter load of rubbish.

Another pathetic response to a post of mine. Why don't you drop it and actually contribute to a thread for a change? My post stands and you know the point I was making. Deal with it.

[Heinz]

Just like the Ballack/Lampard partnership?

.

What's wrong with the Ballack/Lampard partnership ?? After all, they are one of the reason that we won the League Cup and still remain in the other 3 competition. It may not look fancy but as long as we keep winning then it works. Otth, As a player, Gerrard will defnitely like a chance to win quadrupble rather than just have only CL to play for :p

[Teso Dos Bichos]

Ballack is one of the best central midfielders in the world. He has struggled this season in the system that Chelsea insist on using, as would Gerrard. Their inability to perform for England should also not been ignored. The only player who benefits from the current system is Lampard. It's sad when great players are being misused to play Jose's 'safe' football.

[United Pumps]

What's wrong with the Ballack/Lampard partnership ?? After all, they are one of the reason that we won the League Cup and still remain in the other 3 competition. It may not look fancy but as long as we keep winning then it works. Otth, As a player, Gerrard will defnitely like a chance to win quadrupble rather than just have only CL to play for :p
They are too similar as players. Ballack is a bit more defensive but apart from that not much seperates them. It's ridiculous when they are playing Makelele, Lampard, Ballack and Essien in midfield as they have absolutely no width and the only pace exists with Essien, who is more of a defensive midfielder. Considering Makelele and Essien are DMs, whilst Ballack is pretty defensive it is no wonder that Lampard shines. Sadly the system works, although this is more down to Terry and Cech.

[schafer]

Ballack is one of the best central midfielders in the world. He has struggled this season in the system that Chelsea insist on using, as would Gerrard. Their inability to perform for England should also not been ignored. The only player who benefits from the current system is Lampard. It's sad when great players are being misused to play Jose's 'safe' football.

That's not actually true, mind. Lampard has been forced deeper than usual and has far more defensive responsibility in covering the left channel than he did in the 4-3-3. His optimal position is the most forward playing of a centre 3. Yet he's put in very good performances playing deeper despite the fact that all he can do is score goals.:rolleyes:

The diamond doesn't really benefit anyone, other than Ballack at the start of the season when it kept him on the field despite some abysmal performances. Ballack was simply a player we didn't really need, despite his class. The centre of the midfield was never really a problem position.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

It has not drastically changed Lampard's game. The system still plays to his ability to get into shooting positions and contribute with goals, while covering for his deficiencies with the extra body in midfield. Ballack is better at coming from deep and getting into scoring positions in and around the box (as he has proven previously at club and NT level) but the lack of wingers and his role in the side has prevented him from doing so for Chelsea. It would likewise prevent Gerrard from driving forward and playing his natural game. The midfield system keeps things tight and allows Lampard to play his game. It does not benefit anyone else. At least we agree that the system is not the best for the available players. Our only disagreement is with one player, which was to be expected.

[schafer]

It has not drastically changed Lampard's game. The system still plays to his ability to get into shooting positions and contribute with goals, while covering for his deficiencies with the extra body in midfield. Ballack is better at coming from deep and getting into scoring positions in and around the box (as he has proven previously at club and NT level) but the lack of wingers and his role in the side has prevented him from doing so for Chelsea. It would likewise prevent Gerrard from driving forward and playing his natural game. The midfield system keeps things tight and allows Lampard to play his game. It does not benefit anyone else. At least we agree that the system is not the best for the available players.

There's no doubt that Lampard and Ballack are both excellent in terms of scoring from midfield, but Lampard has been playing deeper than Ballack (who is usually at the 'tip' of the diamond) and yet has more goals. It doesn't really benefit either of them, as they both play better with width, but so far this season, Lampard has adapted the best. Obviously, Ballack is at a major disadvantage in that regard, coming to a new league and all.

I disagree, obviously, about Lampard's role not changing, he's has a far more specific role defensively than in previous seasons and there is less room in and around the edge of the 18 due to Sheva, Ballack and Drogba.

I don't really understand what you mean about 'keeping things tight'. If anything, it's a testament to Lampard that he's been able to maintain his performances in such a crowded midfield and maintain his scoring record w/o wingers, while Ballack has struggled in both regards.

[United Pumps]

I like how this has become Lampard vs Ballack.

[Walter3000]

They are too similar as players. Ballack is a bit more defensive but apart from that not much seperates them. It's ridiculous when they are playing Makelele, Lampard, Ballack and Essien in midfield as they have absolutely no width and the only pace exists with Essien, who is more of a defensive midfielder. Considering Makelele and Essien are DMs, whilst Ballack is pretty defensive it is no wonder that Lampard shines. Sadly the system works, although this is more down to Terry and Cech.

Which in itself is an ignorant post, as the team carried on for long streches without Terry AND Cech.

Lampard has "shined" when played in a natural 442(as was stated) hurting this argument about him needing the protection of 2 DMids, the 443 the last two seasons in which he was in midfield with any 2 of Makelele, Tiago, Smertin, Jarosik, and Essien, and when he was playing 433 with Guddy as a more attacking midfielder, it pretty much destroyed the theory that he needs 2 defensive mids behind him.

And now he is once again having an amazingly productive season despite a new system and formation, countless injuries to Chelsea's other stars: Cech, terry, Joe Cole, Robben, Essien recently, Ashley Cole and Wayne Bridge, other key backups, and the inclusion of 2 stars being played despite their form. The defense has seen 4 different players at Rightback, midfielders and fullbacks partnered in the center of defense, both leftbacks go down, and the top 2 keepers.

In midfield we've catered to a star and changed the system, despite underwhelming performances all season, lost our only two consistent attacking threats out wide, and played the utter disaster known as SWP.

And then there's the fact that we have had one reliable scoring threat besides Lampard all year.

But sure, it is the system that has made Lampard look good. through 3 systems, multiple complete overhauls in personnel over the years, multiple injury problems this season, it is a wonder how the biasedly ignorant can still chalk up his success to luck, a system, or better players around him.

[yasik19]

Which in itself is an ignorant post, as the team carried on for long streches without Terry AND Cech.

Lampard has "shined" when played in a natural 442(as was stated) hurting this argument about him needing the protection of 2 DMids, the 443 the last two seasons in which he was in midfield with any 2 of Makelele, Tiago, Smertin, Jarosik, and Essien, and when he was playing 433 with Guddy as a more attacking midfielder, it pretty much destroyed the theory that he needs 2 defensive mids behind him.

And now he is once again having an amazingly productive season despite a new system and formation, countless injuries to Chelsea's other stars: Cech, terry, Joe Cole, Robben, Essien recently, Ashley Cole and Wayne Bridge, other key backups, and the inclusion of 2 stars being played despite their form. The defense has seen 4 different players at Rightback, midfielders and fullbacks partnered in the center of defense, both leftbacks go down, and the top 2 keepers.

In midfield we've catered to a star and changed the system, despite underwhelming performances all season, lost our only two consistent attacking threats out wide, and played the utter disaster known as SWP.

And then there's the fact that we have had one reliable scoring threat besides Lampard all year.

But sure, it is the system that has made Lampard look good. through 3 systems, multiple complete overhauls in personnel over the years, multiple injury problems this season, it is a wonder how the biasedly ignorant can still chalk up his success to luck, a system, or better players around him.

couldn't have said it better myself. rep

[United Pumps]

Which in itself is an ignorant post, as the team carried on for long streches without Terry AND Cech.
Yes, as a United fan I hated the constant headlines, which weren't just limited to the tabloids but were regularly seen in the broadsheets - always a sign of their validity - claiming that Chelsea couldn't play without Terry and Cech during the injury period where Chelsea started dropping points. Also, I cried along with Mourinho in the post match conferences.

Lampard has "shined" when played in a natural 442(as was stated) hurting this argument about him needing the protection of 2 DMids, the 443 the last two seasons in which he was in midfield with any 2 of Makelele, Tiago, Smertin, Jarosik, and Essien, and when he was playing 433 with Guddy as a more attacking midfielder, it pretty much destroyed the theory that he needs 2 defensive mids behind him.
I'm sure that most supporters of the English national side would disagree with you.

[Walter3000]

I'm sure that most supporters of the English national side would disagree with you.

Since it had nothing to do with England, thanks, you just proved part of my point, ignorant people should stay out of these debates

[Teso Dos Bichos]

It has everything to do with England. If Lampard has 'shined' for Chelsea and his success has nothing to do with 'luck, a system, or better players around him', then why is he unable to do likewise for England? Could it be that his success for Chelsea is down to any of the three things you listed? Over to you.