Paul Gardner should watch more Studio 90

[Bora Fan]

If he did - he'd notice that our U15 and U17 teams are progressing nicely in terms of developing a more diverse cross section of the available soccer talent.

Didn't notice an overabundance of tall, strong, and rich white kids relying on Mom's minivan and their own overdeveloped body - to get an edge over other kids who have that "latin" flair that Gardner prizes above all else.

In fact with all the changes in terms of youth culture over the past few years - it's hard to even generalize about any of the kids who all blend equally into the mainstream urban rap gangsta persona that doesn't care if you are white/black/yellow/red/brown so long as you're not a sucka.

I just hope these kids are damn good - because that's the only thing that we should expect out of them and use as a criteria for selection to wear the US jersey.

BTW - so far so good - see the Brazil clips www.ussoccer.com

[seven256]

[QUOTE=Bora Fan;10230287]

Didn't notice an overabundance of tall, strong, and rich white kids relying on Mom's minivan and their own overdeveloped body - to get an edge over other kids who have that "latin" flair that Gardner prizes above all else.

QUOTE]

ill believe that when i see it... i assume you havn't looked a typical "odp" team in the last, say, 20 years

[Bigrose30]

Didn't notice an overabundance of tall, strong, and rich white kids relying on Mom's minivan and their own overdeveloped body - to get an edge over other kids who have that "latin" flair that Gardner prizes above all else.

Um...I actually did notice that in the video.

[JohnR]

I am soooo relieved to know that ODP no longer admits tall white players. That will certainly improve U.S. soccer overall. My boy still struggles in believing that he need not apologize for his skin color and height, but wtih the help of posts like yours I will surely be able to educate him so that he will be properly ashamed of his body flaws.

[Mr.Bill]

I am soooo relieved to know that ODP no longer admits tall white players. That will certainly improve U.S. soccer overall. My boy still struggles in believing that he need not apologize for his skin color and height, but wtih the help of posts like yours I will surely be able to educate him so that he will be properly ashamed of his body flaws.

Most intelligent post I have read in quite some time.

[Mr.Bill]

Bigsoccer is all about the funny stuff for me. Between this and Comedy Central it never stops.

[Bora Fan]

I'm not making race an issue - I'm trying to debunk Gardner's flawed crusade that the US can only succeed if it plays like Brazil and captures some of the "latin" magic that is being lost in the inner cities.

Clearly - if you watch the whole video - you'll see that more than half of the kids are not white - and perhaps the USSF is doing fine assessing talent across the US whether it is located in the inner city or suburbs.

The times are changing and have been changing while Gardner has clung to the life raft of his absurd notion that soccer needs to reflect America's latin roots more.

Soccer is doing just fine - and if you look at the young kids in the program - they look like the black/white/brown/yellow/red America that I see these days.

No big deal.

[JohnR]

No big deal.

Cool.

Just realize that the pendulum has swung in the other direction. My kid scored/created 10 goals in 3 matches in Regional ODP play and was then cut, in part because he was tall/skinny (he was told that directly), in part because he was on the younger half of the calendar, and possibly in part because he was white.

At the time he was cut, they were keeping a Pool of 70 candidates, and he was 1st or 2nd among all attendees in offensive production.

So I get sensitive on the subject.

Personally, I think we'd have a much better system if we just mixed up the kids for a whole bunch of matches, kept a plus/minus system, and then figured out which players figured out how to win. Dean Smith said that the first time he realized that Michael Jordan would be Jordan was when he noticed that every practice team Jordan was on, Jordan's team would win.

Yes, that would be good. A pure meritocracy, no coaches' tastes getting in the way.

Well, I can dream.

[ill quixote]

Cool.

Just realize that the pendulum has swung in the other direction. My kid scored/created 10 goals in 3 matches in Regional ODP play and was then cut, in part because he was tall/skinny (he was told that directly), in part because he was on the younger half of the calendar, and possibly in part because he was white.

At the time he was cut, they were keeping a Pool of 70 candidates, and he was 1st or 2nd among all attendees in offensive production.

So I get sensitive on the subject.

Personally, I think we'd have a much better system if we just mixed up the kids for a whole bunch of matches, kept a plus/minus system, and then figured out which players figured out how to win. Dean Smith said that the first time he realized that Michael Jordan would be Jordan was when he noticed that every practice team Jordan was on, Jordan's team would win.

Yes, that would be good. A pure meritocracy, no coaches' tastes getting in the way.

Well, I can dream.
That's actually quite brilliant.

[JohnR]

That's actually quite brilliant.

I don't think it would be the best system if you had a truly strong group of youth coaches, experienced in seeing 10 or 20 years' worth of players mature, develop, & change during the teen years, so that they knew what to seek in 12 or 15 year olds and what not. With these coaches meticulously graded, tracked, rewarded, & punished based on the accuracy of their past decisions.

In the U.S., though, it would be the best system.

[voros]

I'm not making race an issue - I'm trying to debunk Gardner's flawed crusade that the US can only succeed if it plays like Brazil and captures some of the "latin" magic that is being lost in the inner cities.

Clearly - if you watch the whole video - you'll see that more than half of the kids are not white - and perhaps the USSF is doing fine assessing talent across the US whether it is located in the inner city or suburbs.
What makes you think most of the non-white kids are from somewhere other than the suburbs?

We gotten close to nothing out of the cities so far. Maybe we'll start to improve with youth academies, but I'm not holding my breath.

[chinaglia]

Cool.

Just realize that the pendulum has swung in the other direction. My kid scored/created 10 goals in 3 matches in Regional ODP play and was then cut, in part because he was tall/skinny (he was told that directly), in part because he was on the younger half of the calendar, and possibly in part because he was white.

At the time he was cut, they were keeping a Pool of 70 candidates, and he was 1st or 2nd among all attendees in offensive production.

So I get sensitive on the subject.

Personally, I think we'd have a much better system if we just mixed up the kids for a whole bunch of matches, kept a plus/minus system, and then figured out which players figured out how to win. Dean Smith said that the first time he realized that Michael Jordan would be Jordan was when he noticed that every practice team Jordan was on, Jordan's team would win.

Yes, that would be good. A pure meritocracy, no coaches' tastes getting in the way.

Well, I can dream.

Here's a novel idea. What if we had truly professional teams that made their money by discovering the best talent out there? And, once they discovered the talent they actually trained and nurtured it so that one day those kids could make the first team and help the team win championships or could be sold to another team at a tidy little profit.

Oh, sorry, just got a little carried away there. Go back to life folks, nothing to see here.

[IndividualEleven]

..., and possibly in part because he was white...

:confused:

At the time he was cut, they were keeping a Pool of 70 candidates, and he was 1st or 2nd among all attendees in offensive production.

I remeber Marcus Storey putting up some sweet goals at MLS combine and still being thought lightly of.

[JohnR]

:confused:

I'll retract that argument. Some people on bigsoccer.com think like that, which is why we have these incessant posts about the white suburban kids ruining the game, not being authentic soccer players, etc., but I should not ascribe their views to the ODP coaching community.

[JohnR]

I remeber Marcus Storey putting up some sweet goals at MLS combine and still being thought lightly of.

Since I never heard of the guy, I guess the moral is that the scouts were correct. :)

[balatonsurfer]

Cool.

Just realize that the pendulum has swung in the other direction. My kid scored/created 10 goals in 3 matches in Regional ODP play and was then cut, in part because he was tall/skinny (he was told that directly), in part because he was on the younger half of the calendar, and possibly in part because he was white.


What if he's just not as good as you think he is, or your kid's lying to you? What if I said nothing to him regarding his height before I cut him? The guys we did take as our forwards had even higher production numbers than your kid.

[JohnR]

your kid's lying to you

Yep, he called me and lied about the goals that he scored, and the scores of the matches. You caught him.

At any rate, to return to point, you needn't worry about the tall white suburban player dominating the regional & national youth teams. It isn't happening now, and I don't quite know when the last time that it did happen.

[the Next Level]

What if he's just not as good as you think he is, or your kid's lying to you? What if I said nothing to him regarding his height before I cut him? The guys we did take as our forwards had even higher production numbers than your kid.

The kid is good. As good as or better than any who were selected ahead of him in Region II, IMO.

I fully expected him to 100% play at the Regional level - then see what happens playing against the best guys in the country. I was totally shocked to see him washed out at Regional camp.

[TheRightHandofDoom]

America's latin roots

America has latin roots?

[IndividualEleven]

I'll retract that argument. Some people on bigsoccer.com think like that, which is why we have these incessant posts about the white suburban kids ruining the game, not being authentic soccer players, etc., but I should not ascribe their views to the ODP coaching community.

I've seen those views expressed as well, and find it troubling that the game is considered to lack 'credibility' because of x percentage of whites playing it.