US Soccer Should Emulate...France

[timmy17]

Of all the countries I've heard pundits say we should emulate (Brazil - because they are Brazil; Argentina - Diego + youth development; England - I guess because of Becks + they speak English; Germany - they are athletic and we wanted JK), one other winner and recent finalist never really comes up - France.

It would seem to me that France is the perfect model for us. A mix of domestic and immigrant players; a good representation of African-French players (is this the correct PC term - sorry); a second-tier pro league with some good teams; many of the best playing abroad. I suppose it's easier when you have a player like ZZ, but it's not all him.

Anyway, what is it that makes the French so good? Their youth system? Their domestic league? The coaches? The cheese? I don't know, but it's funny that I've never really seen much analysis of it.

N.B. - I'm not suggesting S.G. should go out and hire the French coach, just wondering about the system.

[hollistonrevsfan]

I think you hit on the main reason France is so good- Immigrant players. The majority of their roster this summer had dual citizenship somewhere else, usually in Africa or the Carribean.

Zidane- Algeria
Henry- Martinique
Abidal- Martinique
Malouda- French Guiana
Gallas- Guadeloupe
Chimbonda- Guadeloupe
Wiltord- Guadeloupe
Saha- Guadeloupe
Thuram- Guadeloupe
Makelele- Zaire
Diarra- Senegal
Vieira- Senegal
Boumsong- Cameroon
Trezeguet- Argentina

* I can't guarantee all these guys do have dual-citizenship, this was just based on a quick rundown of their roster on Wikipedia. The situation with Martinique, Guadeloupe and French Guiana is interesting because France technically owns these terroritories but they still run their own teams (just not in official FIFA competitions). France can then snatch up the best players for their team. We own territories in Central America so I wonder if we could do the same.

[timmy17]

Yep, I do this immigrant players could be the primary factor. Germany is just starting to open up. Italy (though they just won it all) does not seem as open. So I think that in the long run, having the ability to tap immigrant players like Altidore and Adu _and_ develop our national youth will serve us well. I also think that - as Bruce has said - we have yet to see the full impact in soccer that African-Americans have made on other sports in this country.

[DaPrince84]

France was great before their was a prevalence of immigrant players on the squad... Michel Plantini, Eric Cantona, Max Papin, etc...

the US should try to create our version of Clairefontaine...

[USvsIRELAND]

I agree!

Lets go colonize Africa and reap the benefits in World Cup 2046!!!

[Ringo]

would we have to be surrender monkeys, too?

[JoeW]

1. Actually, Bruce Arena has said there is not an influence of great hispanic players just waiting to be discovered.

2. I think you're drawing the wrong lesson from French--about the immigrants. While that has helped their national team recently (and it has helped the Dutch too), the real reason both of those nations have produced real talent is seen in #3 (especially for the French). There are plenty of countries that use first and second generation immigrants. Mexico and some of the South American Nations are among the few that still have a big stigma against players who aren't native born citizens. And at anyrate, we did get Freddy Adu from Ghana (among others).

3. What has made the French such an applicable nation for us to follow is this: soccer was not historically a great past-time for the French (like it was for the English or Brazilians). They haven't had a series of rich clubs buying talent to win championships, gain prestige and thus earn national attention.

In fact, when the "98 WC was held in france, there was some speculation it would be a bust b/c the French care more about cycling and rugby. You see, with Holland, at least it's a football made culture. But with France, it was a sport that until recently was at best 3rd in the French sporting eye and interest.

Instead, the French planned and created good soccer players. They didn't call it Plan 2010 (or more appropriately Plan 1998). But they built a soccer academy. They had great teachers of the game like Hidalgo. Their national federation coaches (like Hidalgo and Houllier) followed the youth up to the senior level. They emphasized skills and technical ability for everyone on the team (and the Platini, Six, Rocheteau generation was the first real example of that--they were just unlucky in WC and Euro competition).

The French are a brilliant example of how to PLAN for greatness. How to create an academy that works. How to build talent and what to teach and what to look for. I believe that it is from the French that the concept of 3 types of speed in football came about: speed of foot (how fast you run), speed of technique (how quickly you control the ball and can manuever with it), speed of thought (ability to read play and make decisions).

And all along, they've had good teams (PSG, St. Etienne, Lyons) that have done stuff internationally but they've never had big clubs with huge pockets, they don't succeed by buying world-class talent to bring in fans or press attention, they're clearly a second tier league but play attractive soccer that stresses attacking and skills. And despite being second tier, failing to keep some of their best players domestically, they kick butt internationally as a nation (with the occasional non-qualification or failure to get out of the second round). They've produced 2 players (Platini and Zidane) who are arguably the best players of their generation (you could argue for others but if you said Platini for his cohort and Zidane for his, those would not be bad choices).

That is also why I hope it is Houllier who eventually ends up coaching us.

And to me, that is why French soccer is worth emulating.

[Autogolazo]

There was an interview with Thierry Henry a couple years back and he said that the system at Clairefontaine was the difference.

They would do things over and over and over. Like corner kicks, for example.

Henry said that he was never a good player in the air or on the receiving end of set pieces and that he basically wrote these things off for himself, but with Clairefontaine training he finally understood what he had to do to get good at them as an attacker with positioning (witness goal vs. Brazil in 2006).

In other words, Clairefontaine looked at these young world-class players' WEAKNESSES and tried to bring those up, rather than allowing the players to lean on their superior speed/quickness/size/dribbling, etc.

[Asprilla9]

**** SIMPLE DAYDREAM ... ALOUD ****

[think to self]

"Wow, wouldn't it be cool if, like, the guy who designed France's youth national team development structure was somehow available for the USA to hire?? What a thrill that would be. Alas, it's a pipedream."

[/end thought]

[Sachin]

I think you hit on the main reason France is so good- Immigrant players. The majority of their roster this summer had dual citizenship somewhere else, usually in Africa or the Carribean.

Zidane- Algeria
Henry- Martinique
Abidal- Martinique
Malouda- French Guiana
Gallas- Guadeloupe
Chimbonda- Guadeloupe
Wiltord- Guadeloupe
Saha- Guadeloupe
Thuram- Guadeloupe
Makelele- Zaire
Diarra- Senegal
Vieira- Senegal
Boumsong- Cameroon
Trezeguet- Argentina

* I can't guarantee all these guys do have dual-citizenship, this was just based on a quick rundown of their roster on Wikipedia. The situation with Martinique, Guadeloupe and French Guiana is interesting because France technically owns these terroritories but they still run their own teams (just not in official FIFA competitions). France can then snatch up the best players for their team. We own territories in Central America so I wonder if we could do the same.

French Guiana, Martinique, and Guadelope are considered part of Metropolitan France and are not separate nations. At least according to French law, they are as French as someone born to parents living on the Rive Gauche.

[Plan B]

French Guiana, Martinique, and Guadelope are considered part of Metropolitan France and are not separate nations. At least according to French law, they are as French as someone born to parents living on the Rive Gauche.

and some of those players were born in France-- Henry, Wiltord, and Gallas are all from the Paris area. I believe Abidal was also born in France. They have duel-citizenship because of their parents.

But, yeah, the comments about Clairefontaine and the coaching are otm.

[pollo1970]

I don't know much about the French youth academy, but it has obviously been very successful. However, we'd be remiss if we failed to mention that France's success can also be attributed to its willingness to develop black athletes.

[Ringo]

I don't know much about the French youth academy, but it has obviously been very successful. However, we'd be remiss if we failed to mention that France's success can also be attributed to its willingness to develop black athletes.

over here we have the opposite problem: too few black athletes WANT to be developed into soccer players. it's still seen as a white man's sport. I remember reading a quote from Eddie Pope where he went back to his elementary school to talk and the kids were shocked to learn that black people played soccer (and were among the very best at it).

[hollistonrevsfan]

French Guiana, Martinique, and Guadelope are considered part of Metropolitan France and are not separate nations. At least according to French law, they are as French as someone born to parents living on the Rive Gauche.

But to me, I see that as basically equivalent to a Puerto Rico or Guam. The United States has territories like this, but we don't seem to be getting the talent from them. I mean, the answer may be that soccer isn't any bigger in these places than it is in mainland U.S. but France seems to be getting a lot of talent from those few small islands.

[Davids26]

But to me, I see that as basically equivalent to a Puerto Rico or Guam. The United States has territories like this, but we don't seem to be getting the talent from them. I mean, the answer may be that soccer isn't any bigger in these places than it is in mainland U.S. but France seems to be getting a lot of talent from those few small islands.

Their are probably a few differences. First just in law and such. While he consider Puerto Rico, Guam, and The Virgin Islands as territories, the French consider these oversease departments and as much a part of France as Corsica or even Paris.

Secondly, I'd say the main sport on our territories differs depending on the island, but I'm pretty sure its not soccer. With Puerto Rico its basketball, Guam its rugby. USVI? Not sure, maybe basketball as well. Plus the development of sport in our territories might be different than the development of sport in the French overseas departments because of the difference in our relationship towards ours vs. theirs.

Just my 2 cents.

[thegreatcrab]

But to me, I see that as basically equivalent to a Puerto Rico or Guam. The United States has territories like this, but we don't seem to be getting the talent from them. I mean, the answer may be that soccer isn't any bigger in these places than it is in mainland U.S. but France seems to be getting a lot of talent from those few small islands.

The regions of Martinique, Guadeloupe, French Guiana, and Reunion (off of Madagascar) are considered French departments. One can look at departments like states. Saying Henry is a dual citizen of Martinique and France is the exact same thing as saying Brian Ching is a dual citizen of Hawaii and the US. It's just silly, no one in France says that.

The reason why these French departments have soccer teams is all because of Concacaf. They aren't Fifa sanctioned, and IMO shouldn't be playing in the Gold Cup, they aren't real countries, but are actually states with representation in the senate and national assembly in France.

Now the discussions about the French soccer academy are spot on. Clairefontaine is the ultimate training academy.

That and theres one other thing that makes them good, but we all know the reason. Its that soccer is so much more popular there than it is here. Cycling isn't year long, all my family and the French people I know don't talk about it outside of the Tour. And Rugby isn't all that popular from what I've seen, it's actually growing.

Anyways that's my 2 cents. The largest I ever wrote here on BS, but I couldn't pass up an article comparing my two teams (and I hope to god they never play each other or else i don't know who to support)

[hollistonrevsfan]

The regions of Martinique, Guadeloupe, French Guiana, and Reunion (off of Madagascar) are considered French departments. One can look at departments like states. Saying Henry is a dual citizen of Martinique and France is the exact same thing as saying Brian Ching is a dual citizen of Hawaii and the US. It's just silly, no one in France says that.

The reason why these French departments have soccer teams is all because of Concacaf. They aren't Fifa sanctioned, and IMO shouldn't be playing in the Gold Cup, they aren't real countries, but are actually states with representation in the senate and national assembly in France.


Fair enough, it was the mostly the fact that they had their own teams that threw me off. Ha, I'm considering studying abroad in France next year so I should probably figure out what the hell I'm talking about.

[sidefootsitter]

France was great before their was a prevalence of immigrant players on the squad... Michel Plantini, Eric Cantona, Max Papin, etc... They actually were in and out of luck with forwards. Sometimes they were a hit - Fontaine, Papin, Six, Rocheteau, Cantona - sometimes they were a miss - Stopyra, et al.

Getting African players however brought a new level of athleticism both into Le Championnat and Les Bleus. Even in their winning 1998, they had a white stiff like Stephane G'uivarch on the roster. Eight years later, it was Henry, Govou, Saha and Trezeguet.

the US should try to create our version of Clairefontaine... The US did ... the problem was that the USSF did not bring the French coaches to run Bradenton.

[cpwilson80]

Though the French system is great youth development model, I still think the German style of the past decade is the one we could most easily emulate.

To generalize, the German sides feature:


great goalkeeping
rock-solid central defense
a midfield with an emphasis on quick passing over dribbling
strikers with high work rates


The US is a hell of a lot closer to this than developing the second-coming of Zidane and Henry...though we have more than enough Makeleles ;)

[cpwilson80]

One final point on the German comparison: it's yet another reason why Klinsmann would have been a great fit.