The downside of the Adu move and MLS (USMNT implications)

[B Rock]

My apologies for a new thread, but with the overwhelming optimism surrounding Adu's move to RSL I thought I'd present the deal and MLS's infulence on our younger talent in a different light.

The two main premises are that:
1) MLS has a tendency to develop one dimensional midfielders in comparison to Europe.
2) This one dimensional quality does not, in most cases, translate well to national team competition.

Many are stating that Adu's freedom to play regularly in an AM role will be quite benefical to his development as a future USMNT player. I couldn't disagree more. I believe that his transfer to RSL will result in a complete lack of defensive responsibility and awareness. He will be lined up in his prefered position and will be enouraged to create while offensively inept converted defenders like Carey Talley will be given the defensive load. It will, likely, be a central midfield agreement much like the more recognizable Lampard/Makelele or Zidane/Makelele ones from Chelsea and France or Riquelme/Mascherano and Riquelme/Senna one from Argentina and Villareal.

The result of this formation is that Adu will become comfortable in a position in which only the best in the world can be accomodated. The work Nowak did to try to develop him into a two way player will be quickly undone. The potential of Adu to play any position other than his preferred AM role will soon be eliminated.

This, in itself isn't horrible, but when you see other young talents like Justin Mapp being treated in a similar way there must be some concern raised. Similar to Adu, Mapp was a work in progress on the flank so the Fire gave up on that experiment and moved him to AM as well.

The truth is that most MLS teams play a diamond midfield to one extent or another and the reason is frighteningly clear: There isn't enough offensive talent in the league, so the avaliable amount is accomodated while defensive midfielders are often just converted backs with little to no offensive accumen.

Think of all of the one dimensional midfielders who will be regular starters next season in an AM role: DeRosario in Houston, Mapp in Chicago, Adu in Salt Lake, Guevara for Chivas, Gomez in DC, and Cancela in Toronto off the top of my head. In addition Mathis will split time at that position for Colorado depending on Fernando's enigmatic mood.

The problem with MLS development is that there is no patience, players with any amount of natural offensive ability are given positions where their defensive inadequacies are glossed over. The experience of Mapp and Adu will be repeated.

Contrast these with the experiences of Bradley, Feilhaber, and even Spector. Feilhaber has actually had to overdevelop his defensive tendencies as he's been forced to play DM behind VDV for Hamburg. On the flip side, Bradley has had to develop more into a box-to-box midfielder for Heerenveen. Spector was taken from a striker for his high school and club side and turned into a defender by Manchester United.

I think the fact that arguably the three best young American attacking players will all translate to the same position on the USMNT, a position which our coach may not even choose to field (most national teams prefer a more balanced midfield) raises concern in my mind of MLS's ability to actually develop players rather than simply throw them in the fold and play them to their natural strengths.

Conclusion: Bradley and Feihaber will be more useful to the USMNT in 2010 then Adu or Mapp. MLS development encourages one dimensional play that doesn't translate well to national teams except in extraordinary (world class) circumstances.

[alocksley]

Take what you said and reverse it. I am worried about Feilhaber, Bradley and Spector never having a chance to display what they can do offensively. We need the Adus and Mapps of the world playing in creative attacking midfield roles. This is a position that we have failed to develop properly (unless you consider Donovan properly developed). Defensive mids we got. By the bushel.

[B Rock]

Take what you said and reverse it. I am worried about Feilhaber, Bradley and Spector never having a chance to display what they can do offensively. We need the Adus and Mapps of the world playing in creative attacking midfield roles. This is a position that we have failed to develop properly (unless you consider Donovan properly developed). Defensive mids we got. By the bushel.

This is what I expected in response. Ask Brazil what a ton of attacking power did without control of midfield in 2006.

You can not, I repeat you CAN NOT, throw a midfield out there with a bunch of one-dimensional attacking players and one ball winner at DM and expect to be competitive because you will never win the ball in order to create anything.

These midfields I keep seeing of Donovan/Mapp/Adu with a ball winner of Feilhaber are hilarious.

[Martin Fischer]

...Contrast these with the experiences of Bradley, Feilhaber, and even Spector. Feilhaber has actually had to overdevelop his defensive tendencies as he's been forced to play DM behind VDV for Hamburg. On the flip side, Bradley has had to develop more into a box-to-box midfielder for Heerenveen. Spector was taken from a striker for his high school and club side and turned into a defender by Manchester United.....

Since Feilhaber and Bradley are holding midfielders and Spector is a defender (the US Under 17 team turned him into a defender, not ManU), I really can't see the point of the comparison. None of them remotely play the same position as Adu.

Adu will never be a national caliber player in a role where defense is critical. He will either play as a withdrawn forward, an attcking outside midfielder in a box 4-4-2 or the attacking midfielder in a 3-5-2. He wasn't going to play any of those roles consistently for DCU (at least with Nowak making the decisions), so this will help to determine if he is USMNT quality and, if so, work regularly on those skills that are more critical to those roles.

[omias]

[ Spector was taken from a striker for his high school and club side and turned into a defender by Manchester United.

Strange... my perception has always been the USMNT changed him to a defensive position at age 15 or 16 while in residency.:rolleyes:

[BenfromUSA]

Look, MLS just does not have enough talent to be doing experimental development for the national team, until then we need to put players in positions where they are most suited to thrive. Until MLS clubs start developing real youth systems, the american talent level in the league will be increasing at a slow pace. The way you get talent for your national team is by having full pledged club youth systems which produce first team stars, who in turn, get selected for the national team. You take care of two birds with one stone rather than using MLS first team ball as national team training.

[deron]

In addition Mathis will split time at that position for Colorado depending on Fernando's enigmatic mood.

The engine of Colorado's midfield last year and in 2005 was Kyle Beckerman where he played a decidedly two way role. Mathis played some a-mid, some withdrawn forward, some injury time, and a fair amount of benchtime.


My complaint is that the US seems to specialize in taking our talented players and devolving them into 'tweeners.

I think there's a certain lazy attraction to playing as a tweener for talented players. There's also a certain American I'm the quarterback uniqueness about it. It's a position tailor made for guys who won't do the heavy lifting on defense, and won't take the beating or do the running of playing up top. The problem with having tweeners is that they need to be spectacular everytime. If they aren't spectacular we're better off keeping them on the bench and getting the extra team player on the field.

[JoeW]

I don't think Nowak's work on movement off the ball, one-touch passing, positioning and work-rate get lost by moving him to A-mid.

I think the potential downsides of this move are as follows:

1. Ellinger isn't much of a pro coach. Nowak was once interviewed about Adu and his development. Nowak was trying to point out how much better Adu had become at decision-making, reading the game, adapting tactically and he told this story. He asked Freddy when he first joined DC United "okay, you're up 1-0. How does that affect how you play?" And Adu responded "I just play my game, the score doesn't matter." I'm all for playing for the love of the game and enjoying yourself. But I've got U12 players who are smart enough to realize that if you're up 1-0, there are likely more opportunities for breakaways as the opposition leaves space in back, that there are a host of differences that emerge in the game. But after lots of meaningful games with the U-17 team and a couple years with Ellinger, Adu didn't know any of that.

I think if you look at how RSL played in year one, how even though they improved in year two, I'd chalk that down more to improved personnel (adding Klein and Cunningham and Ballouchy for instance). Tactically, I view RSL as one of the more simplistic teams in the league. I'm gravely afraid that their offense is going to become: kick the ball downfield to Adu or Cunningham and let's see if one of them can create a goal. We could end up with a very tactically naive Adu, one that doesn't have the vision to anticipate a good run or lay off a brilliant tru-ball or figure out how to break down a world class defense. Oh, he'll have the technical ability to hit that thru-ball, but you can't hit that pass unless you anticipate the run and the run doesn't get made if teammates believe it won't be rewarded. So I worry that Ellinger may just use Adu as a trained seal "get the ball to Freddy guys and he'll create a chance for us to pass it to Cunningham." I hope I'm wrong.

2. A second fear is that Ellinger views Adu as a forward. He can play forward in MLS. But I think he's going to be a long way from ready to play forward against good international competition. While he's quick, he's not fast, He's not tall, He's gotten better at this but he's easily ridden off the ball and has (fairly or unfairly) gotten a rep as a diver (even internationally). Don't get me wrong, his technical skills are amazing. But if all it took were technical skills to be a great forward, than Brazil would score 8 goals every match and we'd see teams with lots of 5'7" forwards. He may in time become a forward but only after he's played internationally at A-mid I think.

3. A third fear is what happens if a big name club makes a low-ball (in MLS' eyes) offer come August 2007. Adu wants to go and MLS says "nyet--too cheap." Does Adu put it behind and soldier on? Or does he sulk about how the league and his team are denying him his dream? Adu is very mature for his age but he's still a teenager and I"m convinced a lot of his attitude funks are due to that element--being a teenager with a lot of visibility and toys that other teens don't have.

Having said those three things, I personally believe it's a good move for Adu b/c he gets PT at a-mid, it's an outstanding move for DCU, it's probably good for MLS and I think it benefits RSL (but mostly on the ticket/stadium front). How this deal turns into something that tremendously benefits RSL and a negative for DCU is if Freddy Adu turns into Maradona--and gives up his dream to play in Europe, ending a long and fruitful career in RSL. In which case DCU gave up the next Maradona and 1-2 decades of brillance for an allocation and a likely first round pick. But I don't think Freddy will be Maradona (version 2.0) and I don't think he's going to stick around in MLS for more than a year--unless he disappoints as a player and there are no foreign suiters.

[appoo]

there is no downside.

I hated the fact that Nowak was placing such an emphasis on defense and discipline on Freddy. It was killing his game. I'm glad Freddy will be in a position where he can be creativly free and won't have defensive responsibility.

[Martin Fischer]

This move becomes a negative for DCU if:

1. Adu shines in his new role and
2. DCU signs nobody any good and/or Moreno hits the wall.

Not an exceedingly low possibility IMHO.

[Martin Fischer]

there is no downside.

I hated the fact that Nowak was placing such an emphasis on defense and discipline on Freddy. It was killing his game. I'm glad Freddy will be in a position where he can be creativly free and won't have defensive responsibility.

IMHO, this is just as dumb as those who say Adu can't play.

[appoo]

IMHO, this is just as dumb as those who say Adu can't play.

have you ever seen Ronaldo criticized for not being good enough defensivly? (which he sucks at btw). Or Arjen Robben? or Joe Cole?

And Nowak went TOO far with creative discipline. Yes, you always need at least some discipline out there, but it was being completly coached out of Freddy. If Nowak wants his team of Robots, thats fine. It's what he got in the the last half of the year and playoffs. I don't want any american who is a pure attacking midfield player under him though. He'll coach the attacking right out of them. unless he's South American anyway.

[Adam Zebrowski]

don't forget adu is more than just mls...

eseentially he's got u-20 qualifying in january...

then he's off to real salt lake...

and finally the u-20 's in canada, presuming usa advances....

adu will be AM for usa u-20 in january...

proceeds to play in early mls season leading up to canada....

i'd see this as a major bonus...

long term, what adu becomes will be defined by what he does in europe...

real salt lake is justr a side trip along the way....

pee stop along the way

[nobody]

My complaint is that the US seems to specialize in taking our talented players and devolving them into 'tweeners.


I tend to agree with this and look at Donovan as shining example number one. He came out as a forward, scored against Mexico on his debut and promptly started tearing the US scoring records to shreds. Then, rather than keeping him in a position he was successful, he got moved back a bit since he could pass well. Then he got moved back a little more since we didn't have anyone else to hold the ball when Reyna was gone. Then, his club team tells him to move back to forward...but set up plays too...maybe a deep forward...but do some of that thing you do in the midfield too...

We end up with a talented guy jerked all over the field and never stuck in his most productive spot and allowed to fluorish.

[scotto]

Think of all of the one dimensional midfielders who will be regular starters next season in an AM role: DeRosario in Houston...

You lost all credibility with me once you made that statement. DeRosario one dimensional? Please. I think you might want to ask other central midfielders in the league what it's like to play against his work rate and defensive tenacity for 90 minutes, and then also deal with his creativity once he wins the ball. This example was a poor choice to use to try to build your case.

[JoeW]

there is no downside.

I hated the fact that Nowak was placing such an emphasis on defense and discipline on Freddy. It was killing his game. I'm glad Freddy will be in a position where he can be creativly free and won't have defensive responsibility.

Appoo, it's folks like you that create expectations that make it more difficult for Freddy Adu to become a great player. You've got this image of what Nowak is like as a coach and how the team operates but it has no resemblance to reality.

Nowak played Adu before he was ready to play and he played him at A-mid and forward. Adu is a superskilled player but in terms of decision-making and tactics, he was so raw he was tartare. That doesn't make him bad, it means Nowak played him even when he was a liability to the team at times.

Last year he played outside mid b/d he (Adu) that was his best chance to get on the WC team and b/c he told Nowak "I want to start" and the only way to make that happen was to play him at outside mid. But hey--you think it's some kind of masterplot by Nowak to create robots--the Stepford Boys I guess.

Look at Adu when he came in as an offensive sub for DCU's away match in 2005 against Catolica in Chile. With DCU desperately looking for someone to take the ball and take it to defenders, buy the DCU defense a break and push back Catolica who was going for the score that would allow them to advance, Adu basically disappeared. No, he didn't choke. But he didn't know where to move off the ball, he didn't know where to "show" in order to make it most likely he'd see the ball (b/c he moved into a passing alley or anticipated who'd get the ball and what options he'd have). That has squat to do with defensive or discipline or being a robot.

Johan Cruyff is one of the creative geniuses of soccer--if we get a player with have of his ability (or similarly a coach) we will be truly blessed. Cruyff once said "in a typical professional match, a good player will touch the ball a total of no more than 2 minutes. I don't evaluate a player on what he does when he has the ball. I evaluate him on what he does the other 88 minutes he doesn't have the ball." I once heard Ivan Toplak (former national team coach of Yugoslavia, once referred to as the Brazilians of Europe) say something very similar, about how what separated the great from just the trained seals was what they did off the ball.

At the highest levels, the best teams are able to integrate each other--they play as a team. That means individuals adjust their game to what is going on, they compensate for other players, they maintain shape, they never stand still, they create chances WITHOUT the ball by their movement and runs, they breakdown defenses WITHOUT the ball b/c of the runs they make. This kind of game is a very smart, cerebral game. It's what it takes for a team to breakdown an experienced, skilled international defense that has a lead.

You're guilty of creating a tremendous downside for Adu--assuming that just b/c he starts and he's in a central position (either A-mid or withdrawn forward), RSL is going to see goals gushing out, they're going to be a force offensively, we're going to see great stuff from Freddy and he'll be one of the 4-7 best attacking mids in MLS this season (which BTW, to say he was 6th best is about average).

He's got amazing individual technical skills. He's improved many parts of his game and his best position is eventually A-mid. But right now he lacks many of the abilities you want in an A-mid:
--ability to read the flow and pace of the game
--ability to defeat tight marking aimed at denying him the ball
--shows well for the ball to insure he'll get lots of touches
--anticipates runs correctly
--makes astute runs forward into space when forwards have all the attention or have made clearing runs
--makes good decisions about when to take on the defender or pull up, when to hold the ball or attack the defense,when to switch play or maintain the point of attack, when to drop the ball back to support to clear space, when to dribble or first touch.

None of those things I just listed involved defense or discipline or being a robot. Lighten up on the expectations of this kid. If he goes to RSL and is expected to light the world on fire, than that's a big, big downside to this trade. He'll show some flashy moves, some sublime touches, might even score some nice goals. But at times, the RSL offense will stink, he'll disappear for long stretches, he'll complain about the tight marking and tactics he'll see from D-mids in the league (that he didn't see as an outside mid). And if people are patient and Ellinger teaches, he'll continue to improve by leaps and bounds. But if Ellinger and Adu and the RSL fans expect greatness and dominant play from game #1 or the first month, than they're guilty of creating expectations that will hold Adu back.

[Baysider]

Interesting question.

IMO, MLS and the US tend to produce three basic kinds of midfielders:

1) Good at attack, weak on defense
2) Weak on attack, good on defense
3) Mediocre on attack, mediocre on defense.


Sure, we would love to have the good-on-attack/good-on-defense midfielders but these are rare in the US for the same reason quality forwards are rare in the US: We just don’t produce that many outstanding soccer players. And I guess I’m of the school that by the time players hit MLS, you can teach them certain things, but it's hard to change their nature.

In a way I disagree with the original poster’s take on MLS. IMO, most of the coaches want two-way midfielders. The problem is, given the talent pool, this mostly produces defensive-oriented midfields, as the coaches want to make sure that defense is covered. At best, you get a flat-four midfield with type (3) midfielders and it’s mediocrity all around.

Alternatively, you can go for a formation that allows for specialization, such as a diamond or wide box, or a 4-2-3-1. Given our talent pool, this may make more sense, both for MLS and the national team. I think this is why you see people proposing this kind of formation all the time.

Mapp----------------Dempsey
------Bradley-Fielhaber----

I'm actually not sure how common the diamond is in MLS. Probably no more common than the 3-5-2 or the wide box, although they are all trying to work about the same problem.

[IndividualEleven]

I'm actually not sure how common the diamond is in MLS. Probably no more common than the 3-5-2 or the wide box, although they are all trying to work about the same problem.

RBNY and Houston run diamonds with cams.

[B Rock]

have you ever seen Ronaldo criticized for not being good enough defensivly? (which he sucks at btw). Or Arjen Robben? or Joe Cole?

The Joe Cole thing is particularly hilarious, considering Mourinho benched him and called him out for his lack of a defensive work rate until he improved it. So yes, I have heard it.

To compare Adu to Ronaldo is hilarious, he looks like he will truly be a once in a generation player who seems to be able to skin top quality opponents at will, one of the few players in the world who you would accomodate in a squad at all costs.

Arjen Robben was developed into a specialized 4-3-3 winger and will struggle to hold a spot in a more traditional formation. Jose won't compain about him, but he'll find himself distinctly second choice to the preferred midfield of Makelele/Essien/Lampard/Ballack.

But thats not the point. The point is that the three brightest US domestic attacking players are being groomed for a role which may not even be avaliable in future USMNT tactical formations and certainly can accomodate one at most.

We need to stop giving our most talented players a free ride in the middle of the field, which is exactly what they get.

[Martin Fischer]

...But thats not the point. The point is that the three brightest US domestic attacking players are being groomed for a role which may not even be avaliable in future USMNT tactical formations and certainly can accomodate one at most.

We need to stop giving our most talented players a free ride in the middle of the field, which is exactly what they get.

Who are the three? Only Justin Mapp currently has this role and Adu potentially makes 2. Who else?

And is having two guys who are best at this role really such a tragedy?

It's not like we don't have other youngish players who do other things who are talented -- Donovan, Dempsey, Clark etc.