Politics

[colinh9]

Taken to off topic.

You can blow the human rights bit out your ass. You can't find me one person in Iraq or the Middle East that says they were
better under Saddam. Sure, it's taking longer than expected but Jesus we just crippled a regime that was in power for like 20 years.

I've got a better one that liberals and democrats seem to stray from, what would you have done differently?

Have you been paying attention to what is going on in Iraq at all? Although we won't admit it, Iraq is in a Civil War, and Kofi Annan himself said it was worse now than it was under Saddam. Let me quote what Kofi said in this interview:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/programmes/newshour/news/story/2006/12/061205_kofi_transcript.shtml

Oh and I think when you have the secretary-general of the UN saying this you know it is accurate.

DOUCET: Is it civil war?

ANNAN I think, given the level of violence, the level of killing and bitterness and the way that forces are arranged against each other. Look at a few years ago, when we had the strife in Lebanon and other places, we called that a civil war; this is much worse.

DOUCET:
Was it a mistake? Some Iraqis say that life is worse than it was under a dictator.

ANNAN I think they are right in the sense of the average Iraqi's life. If I were an average Iraqi obviously I would make the same comparison, that they had a dictator who was brutal but they had their streets, they could go out, their kids could go to school and come back home without a mother or father worrying, "Am I going to see my child again?" And the Iraqi government has not been able to bring the violence under control. The society needs security and a secure environment for it to get on - without security not much can be done - not recovery or reconstruction.
DOUCET: Because there's no denying the risks at stake here - you met Middle East leaders this summer, they said to you that the whole region had been radicalised and destabilised. In fact, they said it was a disaster.

ANNAN This is the feeling of the leaders in the region and in the streets as well. The people are worried - they are worried about the future, they are worried about the broader Middle East, they are worried about the tensions with Iran, they are worried about Iraq, Lebanon, Palestine, and some would even stretch it as far as to Afghanistan. So we have a very worrisome situation in the broader Middle East and we also need to look at them as a whole, not as individual conflicts. There are linkages between these crises.

[ToonUSA]

First, we have this thread already. http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=332085&page=7

Secondly, Kofi Annan is a waste of space. Guy has never done anything to help anyone but himself.

ANNAN It was extremely difficult, because I really believed that we could have stopped the war and that if we had worked a bit harder, given the inspectors a bit more time, we could have.

That says it all. Have the inspectors ever found anything in any country? Nope. Hans Blix sent a group to Iran a few years ago and they found nothing. You know why they find nothing? They give the countries they are INVESTIGATING too much freaking credit. If these people were honest you wouldn't be investigating them. They take their word for it and say "o well we don't see anything" when for all they know they could be standing on a nuclear weapon, or it could be just lying safely in a valley somewhere. *cough* Meccah *cough*

[colinh9]

First, we have this thread already. http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=332085&page=7

Secondly, Kofi Annan is a waste of space. Guy has never done anything to help anyone but himself.



That says it all. Have the inspectors ever found anything in any country? Nope. Hans Blix sent a group to Iran a few years ago and they found nothing. You know why they find nothing? They give the countries they are INVESTIGATING too much freaking credit. If these people were honest you wouldn't be investigating them. They take their word for it and say "o well we don't see anything" when for all they know they could be standing on a nuclear weapon, or it could be just lying safely in a valley somewhere. *cough* Meccah *cough*

Yeah in the process of invading Iraq we've really found a lot of WMDs.

Oh wait no we haven't. Anythign we've found was used against the Soviets in the 80s. Leftover poisons that could only kill people that drank them. Sweet.

Tell me one thing Bush has done to truly make america a better place. And I'm not talking about better place for big buisness.

[ToonUSA]

Yeah in the process of invading Iraq we've really found a lot of WMDs.

Oh wait no we haven't. Anythign we've found was used against the Soviets in the 80s. Leftover poisons that could only kill people that drank them. Sweet.
Huh? Soviets and Iraq? Did you mean Afghanistan?


Tell me one thing Bush has done to truly make america a better place. And I'm not talking about better place for big buisness.
No child left behind
Increased funding for the National Science Foundation
National Institutes of Health
Homeland Security
Amber Alert
Adam Walsh Child Protection and Safety Act
Job Creation and Worker Assistance Act of 2002
Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief
Pension Protection Act
Military Commissions Act of 2006
Medicare Prescription Drug, Improvement, and Modernization Act of 2003
Energy Policy Act of 2005

This good or do you want more?

[BayernWake]

Homeland Security


Post-hoc fallacy. Correlation does not equal causation.



-BW, the moderate

[colinh9]

First off I had a whole response typed out and xed it out, so I will argue all these soon but I'm not doing it again now. Basically half of the stuff you said have hidden agendas or really haven't done anything great for this country. I'd also like to see you explain why you beleive they are good for this country, but I'll let you wait till I really argue your points

And I meant Iran-Iraq conflict, leftover weapons we sold to Saddam to fight Iran. Those are the only weapons we have found in Iraq. Lesson here, don't post political arguments when you are a little tipsy.

[ToonUSA]

First off I had a whole response typed out and xed it out, so I will argue all these soon but I'm not doing it again now. Basically half of the stuff you said have hidden agendas or really haven't done anything great for this country. I'd also like to see you explain why you beleive they are good for this country, but I'll let you wait till I really argue your points


What hidden agenda does the Amber Alert have? This doesn't make any sense. The programs I listed all benefit the American people and yet you seem to have some fervent distrust and believe that they all have a hidden agenda. Do you really want me to go down that list and explain 1 by 1 why every one of those is good for the country? I hope not because I'm not going to.

[colinh9]

What hidden agenda does the Amber Alert have? This doesn't make any sense. The programs I listed all benefit the American people and yet you seem to have some fervent distrust and believe that they all have a hidden agenda. Do you really want me to go down that list and explain 1 by 1 why every one of those is good for the country? I hope not because I'm not going to.

I said some of them have hidden agendas. But did President Bush come up with the Amber Alert idea by himself or did he sign it into law? I really don't know.

No Child Left Behind for example, in the end takes money away from underperforming schools, which is often the poorer ones who haven't bought textbooks since Lincolns assasination, and gives it to the richer schools.

How is the military commisions act a good thing? It allows us to say ******** the Geneva convention and allow torture. I'm sure that really bodes well with foreign enemies. When Americans are tortured it is an absolute outrage, well we set the example. Right now we are a bunch of hypocrites.

Homeland security? In what sense? I think this country is in more danger than ever. Other countires are scrambling for WMD because we are giving off the feeling that that is the only way to protect yourself. The Middle East hatred is growing, and we've created a horrible situation in Iraq.

Medicare! What a joke.

I'm not about to go down that entire list either, but while a few of those things contain some good things for america, a lot do not. President Bush has done 100x more damage than good.

[ToonUSA]

I said some of them have hidden agendas. But did President Bush come up with the Amber Alert idea by himself or did he sign it into law? I really don't know.
I'm pretty sure he just signed it in, but it's still a good thing.

No Child Left Behind for example, in the end takes money away from underperforming schools, which is often the poorer ones who haven't bought textbooks since Lincolns assasination, and gives it to the richer schools.
It holds schools accountable. It makes lazy teachers have to teach and help their students. The students of these schools also aren't the poor victims. If they cared they could do better. Now, I know they have tough family lives to deal with but I don't see how you could try and blame the Goverment for trying to fix the problem.

How is the military commisions act a good thing? It allows us to say ******** the Geneva convention and allow torture. I'm sure that really bodes well with foreign enemies. When Americans are tortured it is an absolute outrage, well we set the example. Right now we are a bunch of hypocrites.
We didn't invent torture. Nor are we the only country to practice it on occasion. Who cares how it bodes with foreign enemies. We don't torture people as badly as we could or others do. Americans are subjected to 100 times worse torture if they are captured, and somehow you think that by us stopping it will make everyone else stop? Last time I checked the US tortured terror suspects to get information on possible future attacks. Other countries torture our brave young men and women for pleasure. They enjoy hurting Americans as they think it is hurting America directly. The ideology of other nations can't be changed. No matter what we do.


Homeland security? In what sense? I think this country is in more danger than ever. Other countires are scrambling for WMD because we are giving off the feeling that that is the only way to protect yourself. The Middle East hatred is growing, and we've created a horrible situation in Iraq.
Where the hell do you get that from? Do you know what Homeland Security does? Other countries aren't just scrambling to get WMD's now. They have been trying to accquire them for years and now they are starting to get closer. Iran has been attempting to do it since the early 90's and before. The Russians aren't helping by dealing to the North Koreans, Chinese, and Iranians. Not to mention Iran doesn't even want to the Nukes to deal with us. Ever heard of Israel?

Medicare! What a joke.
Your opinion.

I'm not about to go down that entire list either, but while a few of those things contain some good things for america, a lot do not. President Bush has done 100x more damage than good.
This is a baseless and ignorant statement. Prove this or don't say stupid things like this.