Steven Cohen - Hillsborough and Heysel comments on FSC

[footyspecial]

Twenty years after Heysel and 16 years after Hillsborough Steven Cohen a presenter on the Fox Football Fone In show has accused Liverpool fans of "directly causing the worst two disasters in English football history." He went on to say that he's sick of Liverpool fans ramming their success down his throat and that "there's a disgusting side of Liverpool's history that I'll be happy to talk about."

If Mr Cohen had any knowledge of the game or it's history he would have known that Lord Justice Taylor's report into the Hillsborough disaster found that no substantial evidence was presented to support any claims of fan misbehavior on that day.

Personally, I hope Fox take appropriate action and Mr Cohen is never given another opportunity to propergate his vile and factually incorrect "opinions" on television again.

[bdm36]

It's more likely that interest in Cohen's rambling, hyperbolic, self-promoting schtick will dry up, and he'll just go away.

Cohen and Geber work better on radio and podcast than on FSC. Still, I became disillusioned and get my updates and opinions from other podcasts like Soccer Shout and Beautiful Game.

Personally, I hope Fox take appropriate action and Mr Cohen is never given another opportunity to propergate his vile and factually incorrect "opinions" on television again.

[JayRockers!]

Did he do it on TV, or on the radio show?

Thx,

Jay!

[simont]

Did he do it on TV, or on the radio show?

Thx,

Jay!

He did it on the tv.
SimonT

[Jabinho]

He went on a rant about the Palestinians on the TV show a couple of years ago that was out of place.. I haven't heard him get "political" again so maybe they have talked to him or maybe he knew it was a mistake, perhaps not.. Maybe Nick told him something... ;)

Anyway, Lord Justice Taylor not only found nothing to back up the claims of fan misbehavior but went out of his way to refute them..

[luciusmagister]

This Cohen guy is a rambling hmm what's the word? SCHMUCK! Right. WTF does he know? I don't watch or listen to those guys as I gave them a chance sometime back and they sucked. They are not worth a second of my time. Ditto for Fox and the SUN.

[jammybastard]

Ok, let's cut the crap!

How many of you weighing in on Cohen's comments actually saw it live? Or even on the rebroadcast?

Probably none.

I watched it, and it's important that his comments are framed the context in which they were delivered.

The discussion was originally regarding the state of English football in the EPL and in Europe. Both hosts agreed that while the EPL is the dominant league in Europe right now (as is their bias) they also admitted that English teams suffered a setback by being banned from Europe due to the riot at Heysel.

Of course things heated up from there, because the fat wannabe-scouser immediately thought the glory hunting pikey twat was accusing Liverpool fans of causing the riot which WAS NOT Cohen's original point. The problem is that Cohen's point was lost in the faux outrage that remained for the remainder of the show.

The reason the whole thing devolved into a mess is because of the character faults of Geeber, Cohen, and the lack of guidance by their Producer Nick Webster.

If you watch the show you know that they pikey and the scouser have a habit of always trying to one-up each other, making more and more outrageous comments until one of them folds. Usually the scouser pulls out, leaving the pikey to gloat in his percieved verbal superiority.
What happened the other night was a case of this bad habit spiralling into a serious problem.

Cohen brings up Heysel only to use it as an illustration of why English football was out of Europre, Geeber defends , and counters with Hillsborough.
Cohen, who always has to out-do Geeber, adds that Liverpool fans have a history of violence and hurting English football domestically and in Europe.
That was how it started.

Taken on it's face, that's a correct generalisation.
Liverpool fans were invoved at Heysel and Hillsborough.
So were other fans, or hooligans, as well.

The problem is that Cohen wasn't interested in having a substantive discussion on the subject. What he really wanted to do was get Geeber to shut up, and thought that his usual tactic of being "outrageous" would work.
I think Cohen thought they he would get his dig in at Geeber, Geeber would shut his pie hole, and they would go back to discussing English football in Europe.

This time though Geeber didn't clam up. He pushed Cohen to clarify his opinion, and Cohen doesn't respond well to challenges. If you are a caller, he will cut you off as soon as he can, but with Geeber he gets a rush of blood to the head and spins out of control.

By the time the show ended both hosts should have been embarrassed that their original point, which was a good one, was lost and instead Cohen and Geeber fielded a couple of calls by clearly outraged ex-pats who correctly pointed out that Cohen should clarify his statements or risk the ire of Liverpool supporters.

Again, when confronted, Cohen will not back down no matter how rediculous it makes him look.
The show ended with him saying essentially "Sorry, but that's how I feel. This is America and I'm welcome to my opinion, etc..." when what he should have done was take a step back and said, "I don't blame Liverpool fans for Heysel and Hillsborough at all, but I do blame those tragedies for setting back EPL teams prospects in Europe".

That was his original point, but his ego stopped him from taking a step back and making that clear.

If anyone from FSC reads this, and I know some do, I want to make clear that Tuesday night's show was one of the best you've ever done. Instead of just cruising through the usual football bs they finally touched on a very important issue and I'd encourage you to tackle these issues in the future.

The tradgedies and issues around Heysel and Hillsborough are not common knowledge in the USA, and yet they are very, very important episodes in the history of the game and should not be forgotten. It's encouraging to see even a crude discussion about them on FSC which never has any content regarding the history of the game.

Important links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillsborough_disaster
http://www.contrast.org/hillsborough/history/index.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heysel_Stadium_disaster


Educate yourself, and never forget.

[JayRockers!]

That's all well and good. But I've heard his opinions on Hillsborough enough on his radio show to know that he squarely blames Liverpudlians for that disaster (and Heysel as well). Sure, he admits that the shoddy police work, stadium controls and fencing had their part to play, but it's always the Liverpool supporter who gets blamed by Cohen. Whether it's done in jest, to get a rise out of Nick, or he actually believes it, I don't know.

I do know that no matter how he dresses up his opinion for TV, he still has a history of placing the blame squarely on the shoulders of Liverpool fans.

And sometimes it's not funny.

Thx,

Jay!

[DC_Red]

It's well known that while the Scousers may not have been to blame for Hillsborough, Heysel was their fault. Hillsborough was innocent fans dying, while Heysel was hooligan Scousers charging and killing innocent Italians.

[ManU62280]

The thing with Heysel is that there is plenty of blame to go around. Liverpool fans went there looking for revenge. The police and UEFA should have known this. The match should never have been played at Heysel with the condition of the stadium.

Also if I remember right there were about 10,000 Liverpool fans who showed up at Hillsborough without tickets and tried to push their way into the stadium.

Cohen was saying that there is a dark side of Liverpool's history (as there is with most English clubs) and they never take any responsibility for it.

If you don't like the guy then don't watch or listen to him. I don't like Bill O'reilly, so I don't sit there every night and watch him and get all pissed.

[Heartofmid]

I found it kind of strange that the point of English club teams dominating the Champions League before Heysel and not dominating since did not lead to any conspiracy theories about the Heysel disaster. It's well noted that both teams were dead set against Z sector being designated for "neutral" fans. I would have found this discussion much more interesting than Nick & Steven's sniping at one another, but I guess you can't have everything.

It's true that Liverpool hooligans were to blame, but the stars really had to align for the tragedy to unfold. The ground had not been upgraded in years, the police were simply not prepared to deal with any problems, the buffer zone consisted of chicken wire, the touts had more control of the ticket situation then the officials, even the unusually hot weather contributed to more beer consumption by fans. Also, throw in the terrace culture at the time, and the hell that Liverpool fans had to go through in Rome at the previous final, and you have a disaster waiting to happen.

I agree with Jammybastard that not much is known about this here in the US, but it seems to be a "JFK moment" for those everywhere else.

[Epikoinos]

on today's WSD, Steven said he has a large number of death threats in his e-mail and might have to talk to L.A. police about them.

[Heartofmid]

on today's WSD, Steven said he has a large number of death threats in his e-mail and might have to talk to L.A. police about them.


Because of his Heysel comments on Tuesday's TV show, or just his comments in general?

[jammybastard]

Because of his Heysel comments on Tuesday's TV show, or just his comments in general?

Steven, who my mate from Manchester refers to as "the pikey twat", probably gets plenty of hate mail on a weekly basis.
My guess is that he got his ass kick alot when he was a kid, and he's making up for it on the air everyday.

[Californiaspurs]

I posted this on another thread (the one in the Liverpool FC section, thinking it was this section). Anyway, if any FSC types are reading, they can take it on board as one viewer's thoughts on the incident................

At first I really enjoyed the Nick and Steve TV show, it was fresh, and I really liked the footie sports bar set. Even when they were closed to the public one week a Spurs fan still made it in and was sitting stubbornly at the bar quaffing an ale whether they liked it or not. Quality.

Recently the show has lost its luster and some flaws have become increasingly apparent that made me, for the first time, think that I will take or leave future programs. It's not a must-see any more.

One of the big problems is the glory hunterism of the show. Nick the Liverpool bloke has made it clear he is quite happy with the same 4 teams being at the top for evermore, so long as Liverpool is one of them.

Steve claimed to have been a Spurs fan who changed when he watched the Cup Final against Chelsea, a story that exactly mirrors the tale of a Chelsea fansite owner - too coincidental, and therefore there is a credibility problem in my eyes.

They dismiss lesser teams' fans with an amazing arrogance, and hung up on a Millwall fan with Steve dismissing the whole club as "thugs" and not worthy of being allowed to be discussed on air. He also talked about Third Landmark when the real name of the Scottish club was Third Lanark, pretty basic stuff for a footie fan of his age growing up in the UK.

By far the worst gaffe was of course his comment on Liverpool being tarnished by Hillsborough. Only this was more than a gaffe, it was adding unjustified insult to innocent victims of a terrible tragedy caused by other circumstances: namely poor policing and security that allowed unticketed fans on the street to pour through a gate into an already full terrace, crushing the people at the front because of the diabolical fences.

Steve should have been man enough to apologize as soon he realized just how horrible his blunder was, which he was rapidly becoming aware of, partly because of the genuinely shocked phone callers (a Spurs fan among them), but at the same time he was in denial and hoping to brush it off as just another controversial opinion.

Couldn't he just have been honest and said: "I was wrong. I apologize profusely. I wrongly lumped two tragedies together and wrongly blamed Liverpool for both incidents, when in fact Liverpool supporters were the victims, not the perpetrators, of the Hillsborough tragedy. I don't know what came over me to say that. I was trying to be controversial and outspoken because that's the Rupert Murdoch philosophy of getting ratings. Like The Sun, what I said was unforgivable, but I beg you to forgive me anyway, and I will never say something so stupid ever again. In fact, I have offered my resignation."

Instead he obfuscated and dug himself ever deeper into a hole. Bad move, mate.

On the other hand, if he really does believe what he said, Fox Soccer Channel needs to get someone else in, sharpish. Because what little credibility he had before that will have totally vanished.

I'm sorry this show has degenerated into the mess it now finds itself in, at the very time FSC is losing many of its plum assets: top English premier games.

I watch the channel more than all others combined, and there's a lot of really good things about the channel (and some not so good, I know), and I wish it every success.

But this is an issue that was well raised on this board, and I think it's one they will have to deal with. I trust they will do it right, and then move on to what it should all be about: our love for the beautiful game and, for my part, the English footie scene in particular.

[JayRockers!]

Californiaspurs-

You might want to avoid the World Soccer Daily podcast then. As I've said before, Cohen routinely blames Liverpool supporters for Hillsborough. Whether he's taking the piss (sometimes) or not (other times) it's tough to hear.

Thx,

Jay!

[Highbury]

I happen to really enjoy the podcast, which is actually quite successful (something like 17th on itunes) but have heard they have to hold back on the tv-show.

Regarding his comments, I do not think he understands how offensive they truly are. That said, he has been discussing this on the radio show before the world cup and has continued to have the same view on the disaster. I just thought he had let the topic die by now.

[footyspecial]

Great posts from real fans.

It's nice to see the "audience" are more educated than the source.

Californiaspurs-

"Third Landmark" sums him up!

[JayRockers!]

How'd his apology go? Did he manage to dredge it up again through the old "if I offendend anyone, I'm sorry. You just don't see my point of view" argument?

Thx,

Jay!

[jkritchey]

How'd his apology go? Did he manage to dredge it up again through the old "if I offendend anyone, I'm sorry. You just don't see my point of view" argument?

Thx,

Jay!
Nope, apologized completely said he was out of line and hurtful.

Not that it will assuage any LFC fan. I'm stunned by what I read on LFC boards about this.