The Ultimate Soccer Player to Walk the Earth

[botch]

So what about Pele's record. Pele played during a time when people couldn't defend. You put Ronaldo in his era and Ronaldo would average 10 goals a game. Pele was ahead of his time but he wouldn't cut it today, he could adapt but out of all the players, Maradona would still stand out today.

Have you noticed that most pro football players cite Maradona as the greatest. Even 3 of the most influential of the last 10 years. Zidane, Ronaldo(even though his favourite is Zico) and Ronaldinho.

People who talk about football or somewhat know about football say Pele is the greatest because of what they hear and his goal record(which is flawed by the way), whilst people who play football always say Maradona is the greatest.

[Bertje]

So what about Pele's record. Pele played during a time when people couldn't defend. You put Ronaldo in his era and Ronaldo would average 10 goals a game. Pele was ahead of his time but he wouldn't cut it today, he could adapt but out of all the players, Maradona would still stand out today.

How about some arguments for that?

[Gregoriak]

So what about Pele's record. Pele played during a time when people couldn't defend. You put Ronaldo in his era and Ronaldo would average 10 goals a game. Pele was ahead of his time but he wouldn't cut it today, he could adapt but out of all the players, Maradona would still stand out today.

It's not a matter of bad defending during Pele`s era. The thing is that in the 1950s and most of the 1960s, offensive style of play was far more prevalent than it is today. Back then, you had 6 or 7 players committed to attacking and only 3 or 4 committed to defending. This ratio has obviously changed over the years. More goals were scored in the 1950s and 1960s because of that, not because "people couldn't defend" (a highly idiotic comment, btw). And no serious Pelé advocate is claiming that Pelé is the best because he scored over 1,000 goals (other players did that as well). Even if he had only scored half that many goals, he would still be the most complete player in the history of the sport. You will not find a player that came after Pelé that was as complete in every aspect of the game as Pelé was. Simple as that. This has nothing to do with the number of goals he scored.

Have you noticed that most pro football players cite Maradona as the greatest. Even 3 of the most influential of the last 10 years. Zidane, Ronaldo(even though his favourite is Zico) and Ronaldinho.

People who talk about football or somewhat know about football say Pele is the greatest because of what they hear and his goal record(which is flawed by the way), whilst people who play football always say Maradona is the greatest.

Now why is that? Hm? Probably because people like Ronaldinho, Zidano and Ronaldo have been able to see Maradona in action while they were kids and he thus had a huge influence on them. Ronaldo was born in 1976, Zidane in 1972 and Ronaldinho in 1980. Zidane was 14 in 1986, when Maradona was at his peak, Ronaldo was 10. And even little Ronaldinho got to see enough of Maradona to get impressed by him. None of these players were around when Pelé was at his peak. That's the difference.

[TKORL]

So what about Pele's record. Pele played during a time when people couldn't defend. You put Ronaldo in his era and Ronaldo would average 10 goals a game. Pele was ahead of his time but he wouldn't cut it today, he could adapt but out of all the players, Maradona would still stand out today.

Have you noticed that most pro football players cite Maradona as the greatest. Even 3 of the most influential of the last 10 years. Zidane, Ronaldo(even though his favourite is Zico) and Ronaldinho.

People who talk about football or somewhat know about football say Pele is the greatest because of what they hear and his goal record(which is flawed by the way), whilst people who play football always say Maradona is the greatest.
If they grew up watching Maradona, they'll say he's the greatest. Maybe 20 years frmo now, the future great players will cite Ronaldinho as the greatest to walk a football field.

[Ombak]

So what about Pele's record. Pele played during a time when people couldn't defendDo you even bother to read the thread you post in?

[Mad2Ad]

my top five players would be

1.Pele
2.Maradona
3.Zidane
4.Beckenbuer
5.Cruyff

i would have put George Best as second but he never got the chance to play in the wolrd cup because of Northern Ireland now lets see maradon get them to win the world cup lol.

Argentina when they won the world cup were a good team yes not as good as bracil in the 70's but they were too good lol. i think poorer teams ahve won the world cup since they won well infact nearly every team that have won since they did were mot as good.


my top players for each position is different.
Goalkeeper

the one the only
Gordan Banks
every one goss on about THAT save against pele buts he was so good i aint seen a goalkeeper since that even comes close maybe schmeical but hes still far of. Oh i am a Leicester City fan but hes still the best and im not biased honest lol.

Defender

easy fo me this one

Bobby Moore

Yes another Englishmen but consider he had no talent lol he just had the best football brain ever better then pele in my opinion its much harder to anticipate which way a strickers gunna go then decide which way ure gunna meg someone or score etc.
Moore was not even that fast or strong etc. he was just an average player with the best football brain ever i dont care if you disagree.

Midfielder

Zinedine Zidane for me. i personally think hes underated every one goes on about maradona beeing in a average team but france were just an average team when they won in 98' certianly not as good as argentina were in 86'


Stricker

Pele its just got to be. he had skill he had finishing everything and he might not of got 1000 goals in europe but it still would have benn at least 800

best player ever for me.

[sidis]

ronaldo couldnt fix his knee at pelé era, and stop to play with 25 years =).

[lanman]

Have you noticed that most pro football players cite Maradona as the greatest. Even 3 of the most influential of the last 10 years. Zidane, Ronaldo(even though his favourite is Zico) and Ronaldinho.

That might have more to do with them actually watching Maradona whilst they were growing up. They were too late to see Pele.

[Harry Boulton]

I think you have to take modern players into a "greatest ever" side. They play at a higher level, a faster pace, the balls move far faster and more. If you were to put the likes of Rooney, Raul, Ronaldinho, Schmeichel, Buffon, Henry or Ronaldo in the 70's and 80's they would blitz their way to so many goals it wouldn't even be funny. Likewise, no one would beat Schmeichel or Buffon.

The game now kis a different animal to what it was 30 years ago. Not to take anything away from Pele and co's achievments. But technically and fitness wise, players today are far better.

The greatest player ever? I have yet to see a player who is better than Zidane. Henry and Ronaldinho come close as does Ronaldo and maybe Gascoigne (heart spoke I'm afraid), but Zidane was the very best. Touch, skill, pace, strength, creativity, flair, two-footed, a world and european champion, he was a genius.

[Tribune]

I think you have to take modern players into a "greatest ever" side. They play at a higher level, a faster pace, the balls move far faster and more. If you were to put the likes of Rooney, Raul, Ronaldinho, Schmeichel, Buffon, Henry or Ronaldo in the 70's and 80's they would blitz their way to so many goals it wouldn't even be funny. Likewise, no one would beat Schmeichel or Buffon.

The game now kis a different animal to what it was 30 years ago. Not to take anything away from Pele and co's achievments. But technically and fitness wise, players today are far better.

The greatest player ever? I have yet to see a player who is better than Zidane. Henry and Ronaldinho come close as does Ronaldo and maybe Gascoigne (heart spoke I'm afraid), but Zidane was the very best. Touch, skill, pace, strength, creativity, flair, two-footed, a world and european champion, he was a genius.

That's quite a bold statement when you say it without any kind of answer.
Let me ask you this question : how exactly do you determine this "higher level" ?
How do you determine that players today are "far better" in technique and fitness ?
Let's assume that someone who wants to learn about soccer hears you and has the curiousity to ask you this question ? By how much are players of today faster than players of the past ? What do you answer ?
Now to answer your points :


But technically and fitness wise, players today are far better.

Players today technically better ? You are very misinformed. If there is something which lacks in modern game is a great technique in the average players. The best have it, but the average players has deficiencies in this department.
Football has become more physical, and less technical. That’s why a player like Zidane, with great technical abilities, gets so much attention – relative to most other players, his skills are indeed exceptional. In the seventies, his technique would have been considered less special.
You should not confuse technique which is total control over the ball in any situation with all kind of fancy moves from Nike commercials.

Here is the opinion of Beckenbauer and Cruyff on this issue (from a 2002 interview) :

Was 1974's football better than it is today?

Beckenbauer: "The speed of the game has changed. Today's football is more athletic. Back then, it was more estetic. Mostly becasue our technical abilities were of a higher level.

Cruyff: "Football has changed enormously - at the the cost of technique, unfortunately. In 1974, it was much higher than it is now. It's sad that that part of the game has been neglected in recent years, because for me, technique remains the core of football.

Don't take it from me, take it from 2 of the most intelligent players ever. I think their opinions are likely to be more accurate than yours.
The technical player should be able to run past his man, shoot with both legs, control the ball in every situation and pass the ball in the right direction to the right leg with the right speed and the right curve. This type of player has become rare indeed. Not even 1% of today's professional football players meets those criteria.

Players stronger today so Zidane and Co have a more difficult task ? Incorrect. Look at Lionel Messi. This guy simply does not compare with Pele or Maradona in terms of strength. Yet he tormented Chelsea's defense last year as if they were a bunch of amateurs. And Chelsea had the best defense in the world at that time. And Messi is not as strong or fast as Maradona or Pele. What would have happened to those modern defenses against O rey or El Pibe d'Oro ?
Take another example. Fabio Cannavaro is World Player of the Year. Yet he is humiliated by second hand strikers from La Liga ! This guy cannot handle Fred, Carew or Sinama Pongolle, are you telling me he could have handled Pele ? Jairzinho is not half the player Pele was, yet he has more talent than Fred, Carew and Pongolle put together. What he would have done to our World Player of the Year ?
Here is another one. In 2004, Milan had one of the best defenses at that time. Yet, their defenses was torn apart by players like Pandiani and Luque in the games versus Deportivo. Watch those games and you'll see that Deportivo's goals were embarassing for any defense who calls itself decent. And it was MILAN !

Players faster ?
Here's a surprise for you :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Record_progression_100_m_men

The world record progression of 100 meter :

9.95 Jim Hines USA Mexico City, Mexico October 14, 1968
9.92 Carl Lewis USA Seoul, South Korea September 24, 1988
9.77 Asafa Powell JAM Athens, Greece June 14, 2005

So what do you have ? The fastest man in Pele's time was running 100 meters in 9.95 seconds. The fastest man now runs 100 meters in 9.77 seconds. So, the difference is 0.18 seconds, which means, in a 100 meters race, the guy from Pele's time would be only 20 CENTIMETERS behind the guy from our time !
In athletics, even 1 centimeter more is an improvement and declared a record breaking, thus is why we have this image of a dramatical improvement. In a football match, this difference simply does not matter.
So, if professional sprinters have managed to improve their performances only by 0.18 seconds, then definetely football players have not improved their speed by a greater margin.

The only department where there is a difference is the pace of the game, resulted from the player's improved stamina. What's the idea ? The overall effort of the players has increased, meaning that they run in an hour what a team from 1960 ran in aprox 80-90 minutes. And this has absolutely nothing to do with the players qualities, being the result of the improved training of today. This stamina problem is not something which some time spent in the gym won't fix.

Does Zidane play in a more difficult era ? Just look at the WC from 2002. When that Germany side is able to reach the final, you know the whole tournament was a farce. There is no player in that team beside Kahn and Ballack who could be an all-time great or at least make it into the German teams from 1974 or 1990.

So, maybe you should think again before making such statements.

[lanman]

I think you have to take modern players into a "greatest ever" side. They play at a higher level, a faster pace, the balls move far faster and more. If you were to put the likes of Rooney, Raul, Ronaldinho, Schmeichel, Buffon, Henry or Ronaldo in the 70's and 80's they would blitz their way to so many goals it wouldn't even be funny. Likewise, no one would beat Schmeichel or Buffon.


Only if you transplanted them back with all of their modern training and dietry advantages (and I would love to see them play with the balls and boots they used 50 years ago). Take any great player and bring them up the same way the greats of Pele's age were and you would not see them "blitz their way to so many goals". Likewise, if Pele was to have had the footballing upbringing someone like Henry had and he would be even better.

[BigIrishDougie]

So what about Pele's record. Pele played during a time when people couldn't defend. (which.

Tell that to Bobby Moore or Franz Beckenbauer.

[Bertje]

It's nonsense today's football is better because player can run more and are stronger. In fact, I personally think it's the other way around. Today's players have to run more and be stronger, because they lose the ball more often. The technique of today's players cannot be compared to the technique of the players brought up after the revolution of European football. After the succes of Northern European teams and their endless running and tackling these attributes slowly became more and more important.

In Dutch we have a saying: "Voorkomen is beter dan genezen", which roughly translates into: "It's better to prevent than to cure". If the technique would be better (in other words: if loss of the ball would be prevented) their would be no need for this insane stamina players have these days.

Ronaldo in his prime was an amazing forward. I have said before he was probably the best individual forward that ever lived, but even though he has seemingly endless talent simply controlling the ball often is a task too hard. Sure, in his prime he would just protect the ball with his speed and strength, but now those aspects have diminished it's clear for everyone to see his dribbling technique might be good, but his pure ball controlling technique isn't that good at all.

A perfect example of a player who these days seems to have an amazing technique is Zlatan Ibrahimovic. During his days at Ajax Cruijff once said "Voor een slechte spits heeft hij een uitstekende techniek, maar voor een uitstekende spits heeft hij een slechte techniek", which means: "for a bad striker he has a very good technique, but for a very good striker he has a bad technique". He often beats players one on one, which is a great attribute to have, but why are the simpler things, like controlling a ball and passing it, so hard? He has gotten much better at this, but less famous strikers during the fifties, sixties and seventies had a much better simple technique than someone like Zlatan has these days.

[jerrito]

Hmmm...what did Maradona really win?

1986 World Cup - Granted, but needed to handball to win a critical game

1990 WC Finalist.

2 Italian League Titles

1 Argentine League

1 UEFA Cup

An excellent record by all accounts. Who has surpassed this?

Hmm... Zidane, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Thierry Henry, Patrick Vieira, heck....Gennaro Gattuso has won more...basically, whatever Maradona has done in his career, many of today's great players have surpassed.

Good point. Except for the fact that every one of the players you list had an enormous amount of talent around him. Maradona never played for a "super team" at Napoli. He made a good team a champion. Much of what Napoli did was due to the greatness of Maradona alone. Not all of it. But a huge part. And he had more talent in his left foot than anyone who has ever played the game. Still, even as a Neapolitan born and raised in Naples, and a lifelong Napoli fan, I would have to vote Pele as the greatest ever based on his being a great team player, able to do almost anything on the pitch with his head or either foot, and more consistenly great over a long period. But a close second would have to be Maradona. By a distance over whomever was third best.

[sidis]

paulista championship is so competitive than any country league in europe.

the same for rio de janeiro championship.

[Revelian]

Top ten players of all time:

Beckham
Rooney
Gascoigne
Maradona
Moore
Pele
Best
Charlton
Beckenbauer
Zidane

Revelian

[sidis]

beckham hahahahahahahaahaahhahaaha.

[Ombak]

RevelianWhat's he doing on this list?

LOL, in all seriousness, (and I know you didn't put your name on the list, you just signed it) at least 4 of those names make as much sense on the list as your name would.

[Revelian]

What's he doing on this list?

LOL, in all seriousness, (and I know you didn't put your name on the list, you just signed it) at least 4 of those names make as much sense on the list as your name would.

Well, I would have put Ombak, but you're number eleven in my book.

Revelian

[Gregoriak]

I don't think players of today have better technical abilities, more the other way round. A kid growing up in the 1930s to 1960s really had not much choice to do in his spare time than to play football after school with his friends. The best players when they were kids were known to have played nothing but football in the streets and backyards of their neighborhoods. They learned to control the ball that way.

Today's players grew up at a time when they had far more possibilities to do in their spare time. Computer games, movies, television and whatnot. They spent less time on the ball at young age than their counterpasts of previous generations.

That's why I think the greats of the past had overall a better technique than most of today's stars.