The Ultimate Soccer Player to Walk the Earth

[bosterosoy]

:/

On that basis Viv Anderson or Arthur Wharton are the best players ever for making it in a racist England so early on. Seedorf was probably the worst footballer mentioned in this thread (up until this post, obviously).

People who say Zidane is the best, or second or third best, are deluded. Fancy tricks don't make you the best player ever.

agreed
I guess Weah must have been the best striker of all time then :rolleyes:

[TKORL]

:/

On that basis Viv Anderson or Arthur Wharton are the best players ever for making it in a racist England so early on. Seedorf was probably the worst footballer mentioned in this thread (up until this post, obviously).

People who say Zidane is the best, or second or third best, are deluded. Fancy tricks don't make you the best player ever.
I don't understand. Seedorf is one of the world's best players, and Holland's most succesful player.

[United Pumps]

Phil Neville is one of the most succesful players in the world.

Would any Dutchmen say that Seedorf is the best Dutch player ever? Better than Van Basten? Than Cruyff? Surely to be the best player ever you at least need to be the best your country has produced?

[Pecho Frio]

agreed
I guess Weah must have been the best striker of all time then :rolleyes:

:/

On that basis Viv Anderson or Arthur Wharton are the best players ever for making it in a racist England so early on. Seedorf was probably the worst footballer mentioned in this thread (up until this post, obviously).

People who say Zidane is the best, or second or third best, are deluded. Fancy tricks don't make you the best player ever.

to Bostero: (Who could not respond to my last post in the messi-diego thread and who is now aiming to gain some dignity) Weah does not have 5 Champions league finals with 3 different teams ( And Seedorf was always hugely influential in his clubs success' )

To united pumps: Do you have difficulty in understading what you read I may recommend you some books via PM. Just tell me if you need them.

I used the racism stuff because Seedorf comes from a minority in Holland, And being part of the minority and still happen to be the great player that he is is more difficult than a white dutch getting the same amount of success. I am not saying racism stops and blocks all the minorities from being succesful at football; but it sure puts in front of them another obstacle to jump over.

And;

If you say that Seedorf is the worst player mentioned in this threat; please do not watch nor comment on footy anymore. HE has played crucial roles in the acquirment of 4 CHAMPIONS LEAGUE CUPS. ARE YOU FKNG BLIND NOT TO SEE HIS CLASS? He's the most complete footy player modern football has ever seen. That makes him the ultimate soccer player to walk the earth. What does Seedorf have to do to gain people respect?

Win a world cup? ( overrated cup as I proved sensibly in my previous post) How will he ********ing win it if Holland has got that ************ defending system of theirs and Seedorf is not even called to the national team?

Win A UEFA Cup like the mighty Diego? Well sorry if he plays for top teams who are in the Champions League.

Oh I know what you want. You want goals.. You think football is all about goals and assists. A good short-passer or a fantastic tackler of the ball can never be the best. That is childish and pretty simple. The real lovers of football know Seedorf is the best player ever. (Along with Maldini) But I'm sad to see there are so few of them.

Anyway I'll end my post with a quote from the mighty Cruyff:

" Football is a simple game. It’s just very hard to play it simple. "

Hmm, I wonder, which player fits best to this description of football style? U tell me..

[Pecho Frio]

Phil Neville is one of the most succesful players in the world.

Would any Dutchmen say that Seedorf is the best Dutch player ever? Better than Van Basten? Than Cruyff? Surely to be the best player ever you at least need to be the best your country has produced?

Well Its their stupidity if they dont.. Im no Dutch, Im no suriname; but I know football, its tactics, its rules perfectly and am totally objective.

Modern football is much more tiring and rapid than the times of Cruyff.

Would Cruyff shine as much and wd be as influential as Seedorf is in Champions League? I do not think so. Before football was SLOWW, defending was SLOWW, with liberos defences could not push up as much as they do in modern football ; which resulted in a s*hitty closing down system . (please tell me if your tactical knowledge of football is not enough to grasp tihs, if so; I will try to explain it with some pictures or easier words)

Van Basten: Great striker, no discussion. Not as intelligent and complete as Seedorf though. More popular, coz of his wonderful goals.

[bosterosoy]

to Bostero: (Who could not respond to my last post in the messi-diego thread and who is now aiming to gain some dignity) Weah does not have 5 Champions league finals with 3 different teams ( And Seedorf was always hugely influential in his clubs success' )
i stopped looking at the thread since all you and paul_nl did was repeat stupid arguements in which we already showed you why what you are saying is ridiculous.

If you say that Seedorf is the worst player mentioned in this threat; please do not watch nor comment on footy anymore.

which player (that was nominated in a serious matter) was mentioned in this post that is worse than seedorf?

HE has played crucial roles in the acquirment of 4 CHAMPIONS LEAGUE CUPS. ARE YOU FKNG BLIND NOT TO SEE HIS CLASS? He's the most complete footy player modern football has ever seen. That makes him the ultimate soccer player to walk the earth. What does Seedorf have to do to gain people respect?
this is a huge stretch
and beckenbauer was a much more all round player

Win a world cup? ( overrated cup as I proved sensibly in my previous post) How will he ********ing win it if Holland has got that ************ defending system of theirs and Seedorf is not even called to the national team?
Holland always underachieves in the NT. Seedorf was no exception.

Oh I know what you want. You want goals.. You think football is all about goals and assists. A good short-passer or a fantastic tackler of the ball can never be the best. That is childish and pretty simple. The real lovers of football know Seedorf is the best player ever. (Along with Maldini) But I'm sad to see there are so few of them.

actually, instead of just assuming, you can read the thread.
beckenbauer, maldini and baresi have been mentioned in this thread though they didn't 'score goals'

[Tribune]

I used the racism stuff because Seedorf comes from a minority in Holland, And being part of the minority and still happen to be the great player that he is is more difficult than a white dutch getting the same amount of success. I am not saying racism stops and blocks all the minorities from being succesful at football; but it sure puts in front of them another obstacle to jump over.


[/SIZE]


Fallacious argument. Seedorf was not the first black player to come from Holland and not the best. Ruud Gullit and Frank Rijkaard paved the way for him, they were better players and also have an impressive record themselves.
In fact, Gullit was the first black player to receive Ballon d'Or. So where is he on your list ? Seedorf never came even close to winning this award.

Second, your point about Seedorf being the best because he has 4 EC is bollocks. First and foremost, he is not the only one who has achieved such a performance. Want some examples :

Francisco Gento - 6 CL, 5 in a row
Alfredo Di Stefano - 5 CL all in a row
Paulo Maldini - 5 CL ;
Alesandro Costacurta - 5 CL ;
Jose-Hector Rial - 4 CL all in a row ;
Phil Neal - 4 CL ;

Except for Di Stefano, I have not heard any of those guys being taken into consideration for the "ultimate soccer player".

That putting aside players like Pele and Beckenbauer, who, despite not having 4 continental trophies, they won everything possible and have an international record Seedorf can only dream of.

And in short, Seedorf has no place in a top 50 ever.

[bosterosoy]

I don't understand. Seedorf is one of the world's best players, and Holland's most succesful player.

cryuff, van basten
those are 2 dutchmen that are way better than seedorf is

[bosterosoy]

Well Its their stupidity if they dont.. Im no Dutch, Im no suriname; but I know football, its tactics, its rules perfectly and am totally objective.

Modern football is much more tiring and rapid than the times of Cruyff.

Would Cruyff shine as much and wd be as influential as Seedorf is in Champions League? I do not think so. Before football was SLOWW, defending was SLOWW, with liberos defences could not push up as much as they do in modern football ; which resulted in a s*hitty closing down system . (please tell me if your tactical knowledge of football is not enough to grasp tihs, if so; I will try to explain it with some pictures or easier words)

Van Basten: Great striker, no discussion. Not as intelligent and complete as Seedorf though. More popular, coz of his wonderful goals.

this has been talked about many times.
You say that past football players couldn't p-lay today. why not?
because today's players are faster?

what makes you think that seedorf could play the way players played back in the day?

fouls were much harder back then. look at some taken by maradona or pele. imagine how some of today's players would have done taking those fouls. I could only imagine how long c ronaldo would be on the floor.

players nowadays have all this great equipment stuff. the ball is made differently and is lighter. the cleats are made so its easier to curve the ball and to control the ball. shin guards are more advanced. the field is treated and cared for a lot better.

I would like to see seedorf, c ronaldo etc etc play on the old fields with the old rules (hard fouls were sometimes not even called) and the old equipment.

Just like you just assume pele, maradona, cruyff, becknenbaur, van basten couldn't play nowadays (something i find ridiculous, I don't thing today's players could play as well as they do now if they had played in the 40s,50s,60s etc etc

[Tribune]

Well Its their stupidity if they dont.. Im no Dutch, Im no suriname; but I know football, its tactics, its rules perfectly and am totally objective.

Modern football is much more tiring and rapid than the times of Cruyff.

Would Cruyff shine as much and wd be as influential as Seedorf is in Champions League? I do not think so. Before football was SLOWW, defending was SLOWW, with liberos defences could not push up as much as they do in modern football ; which resulted in a s*hitty closing down system . (please tell me if your tactical knowledge of football is not enough to grasp tihs, if so; I will try to explain it with some pictures or easier words)

Van Basten: Great striker, no discussion. Not as intelligent and complete as Seedorf though. More popular, coz of his wonderful goals.


Modern football is much more tiring and rapid than the times of Cruyff.

Says who ? Dude, I just recently watched the CL final from 1962 between Real and Benfica. Only 3 days before 23 May, so I could make a perfectly valid comparison. It had more running and more pace than the last week final between Milan and Liverpool.

Would Cruyff shine as much and wd be as influential as Seedorf is in Champions League?

You are at the border of sheer idiocy. Just to let you know.

Before football was SLOWW, defending was SLOWW, with liberos defences could not push up as much as they do in modern football

I wonder how did Carlos Alberto scored that goal in 1970, from near the box...

which resulted in a s*hitty closing down system . (please tell me if your tactical knowledge of football is not enough to grasp tihs, if so; I will try to explain it with some pictures or easier words)

That's probably why the age of Cruyff had the lowest goal ratios in history. An average of aprox 2.25 for EPL, Primera and Serie A, in comparison with goal ratios of aprox 2.75 of the last decade.



Bottomline : You are talking out of your ass.

[Tribune]

this has been talked about many times.
You say that past football players couldn't p-lay today. why not?
because today's players are faster?







Myth. I recommend you the CL final from 1960 and pay special attention to Gento's runs on the left flank.
You can also check Cruyff versus Argentina, Inter or Real Madrid.

Seedorf is a turtle in comparison.

You can also try Paulo Futre at the WC from 1986. He was faster than a prime Roberto Carlos.

[Pecho Frio]

i stopped looking at the thread since all you and paul_nl did was repeat stupid arguements in which we already showed you why what you are saying is ridiculous.

Bostero fan reading? thats new.


which player (that was nominated in a serious matter) was mentioned in this post that is worse than seedorf?

Worse ; all. Were they bad players? No. Who is the best: Seedorf


this is a huge stretch
and beckenbauer was a much more all round player

Beckenbauer: OLD FOOTBALL. ZZZ Football.


Holland always underachieves in the NT. Seedorf was no exception.

What wd you except from a football country with a population of 16m ? Holland needs to change its tactics. ( in my humble opinoin) But World Cups are not important for me since even Turkey cd have won it in 2002 by only beating 2 top teams)


actually, instead of just assuming, you can read the thread.
beckenbauer, maldini and baresi have been mentioned in this thread though they didn't 'score goals'

I was referring to the children who were stuck between Maradona and Pele




Fallacious argument. Seedorf was not the first black player to come from Holland and not the best. Ruud Gullit and Frank Rijkaard paved the way for him, they were better players and also have an impressive record themselves.
In fact, Gullit was the first black player to receive Ballon d'Or. So where is he on your list ? Seedorf never came even close to winning this award.

U guys took the racism stuff too seriously. Read my previous post in order to grasp my point.

Second, your point about Seedorf being the best because he has 4 EC is bollocks. First and foremost, he is not the only one who has achieved such a performance. Want some examples :

Francisco Gento - 6 CL, 5 in a row
Alfredo Di Stefano - 5 CL all in a row
Paulo Maldini - 5 CL ;
Alesandro Costacurta - 5 CL ;
Jose-Hector Rial - 4 CL all in a row ;
Phil Neal - 4 CL ;

Except for Di Stefano, I have not heard any of those guys being taken into consideration for the "ultimate soccer player".

Nice information, you are a fine researcher but I need modern football examples. No need to give me examples from 1565 and tell " But look Pecho Frio, he got more cups, u suck ha ha ! "

AND

A player without cups can not be worlds best ever. But I'm not only pointing out his finals. His role in them in todays game, his intelligence, his physique, his teamwork, his will of victory, his amiable behaviour towards his clubs and fans, his level of proffesionalism etc. all form an ensemble which makes him THE BEST EVER.

That putting aside players like Pele and Beckenbauer, who, despite not having 4 continental trophies, they won everything possible and have an international record Seedorf can only dream of.

I think International cups are overrated. I do not want to repeat myself over and over again.

And in short, Seedorf has no place in a top 50 ever.

You are a nice researcher, but hockey wd prolly be a better sport to watch for you



Says who ? Dude, I just recently watched the CL final from 1962 between Real and Benfica. Only 3 days before 23 May, so I could make a perfectly valid comparison. It had more running and more pace than the last week final between Milan and Liverpool.

I agree that Milan-Liverpool's pace was horribly slow. Its wrong and childish to state the differences between the pace of the modern and the old game by only one game tough.



You are at the border of sheer idiocy. Just to let you know.

Your childish insults show that you havent not received a good education from your attended schools or your parents.



I wonder how did Carlos Alberto scored that goal in 1970, from near the box...

Keeping on giving one example?


That's probably why the age of Cruyff had the lowest goal ratios in history. An average of aprox 2.25 for EPL, Primera and Serie A, in comparison with goal ratios of aprox 2.75 of the last decade.

Slow defending, SLOW attacking, slow football, more passing, less goals. Sorry I had to teach you that..



Bottomline : You are talking out of your ass.

Learn some manners





Pecho Frio

[Paul_NL]

Seedorf played 2 good games, Pecho Frio thinks he is great because he only saw this 2 games

[Pecho Frio]

Seedorf played 2 good games, Pecho Frio thinks he is great because he only saw this 2 games

This coming from my big ally in the Messi-diego thread? Oh my, Im just heart-broken now :P

[bosterosoy]

Seedorf played 2 good games, Pecho Frio thinks he is great because he only saw this 2 games

for once i agree with Paul NL :eek::p

Pecho Frio, you just said in your previous point:

I think International cups are overrated. I do not want to repeat myself over and over again.

yet your whole basis is that Seedorf did well on teams and won 4 CL titles

can you see the contradiction??

[The Double]

yo,,, stop sayin bullshit u asshole,,

frio is right,, jus think bout it

Relax with the personal attacks. Last warning for everyone.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

Second, your point about Seedorf being the best because he has 4 EC is bollocks. First and foremost, he is not the only one who has achieved such a performance. Want some examples :

Francisco Gento - 6 CL, 5 in a row
Alfredo Di Stefano - 5 CL all in a row
Paulo Maldini - 5 CL ;
Alesandro Costacurta - 5 CL ;
Jose-Hector Rial - 4 CL all in a row ;
Phil Neal - 4 CL ;

Except for Di Stefano, I have not heard any of those guys being taken into consideration for the "ultimate soccer player".

Nice information, you are a fine researcher but I need modern football examples. No need to give me examples from 1565 and tell " But look Pecho Frio, he got more cups, u suck ha ha ! "

You do realise that both Maldini and Costacurta won their last CL title a week ago?

[bosterosoy]

in order to be the best player, the following have to apply:

be the best on your country's NT?
when was the last time Seedorf was even called up?...

be the best in your country's history?
Van Basten, Rijkaard, Gullit, Cryuff...

be the best ever?
lol this list goes on for awhile. Let's see. Maradona, Pele, Di Stefano, Muller, Beckenbauer, Cryuff, Eusebio, Garrincha.....the list goes on and on (similar to the Energizer Bunny)

be he best during your career?
currently: nesta, c ronaldo, kaka, riquelme, ronaldinho, gattuso, totti
during seedorfs' career: maldini, rivaldo, ronaldo, zidane, romario, nesta, totti

be the best in your league?
Totti, kaka, nesta,

be the best on your team?
nesta, gattuso, kaka

[Paul_NL]

Seedorf is the posterboy of overrated players

Ajax - Sub
Samp - Good
Real - first season good, after that sucked
Inter - Sucked
Milan - Decent

[Paul_NL]

NT - Worst player ever to play over 60 games