The Ultimate Soccer Player to Walk the Earth

[Gregoriak]

This is just my opinion, but if you look at the videos of the 1970 Brazil team, I know of their reputation, but when you watch them play, they often seem to make small technical mistakes that I don't think today's best teams do. Honestly, I was not that impressed, they don't seem any better than say, Arsenal.



Are you talking about the 1970 World Cup final in particular? If that is the case, I share your opinion. I consider it among the most overrated games in the history of football. Yes, Pelé's header and C.Alberto's goals belong to the best in their genre, but apart from that (and the three other goals), that final left a lot to be desired. The first half was really bad and in the second half Italy broke down due to exhaustion from the semi final clash with West Germany. There were indeed quite a number of technical mistakes by both teams, but especially and surprisingly by Brazil. I don't know where that came from, maybe for some reason they lacked concentration of were just off-form (whatever) but they usually did not commit such mistakes when on the ball.

Please check the quarterfinal between Brazil and Peru for proof. I regard this game as one of the most technically perfect ever seen at a World Cup.

[de Berenboot]

Best striker ever is Van Basten.

[TKORL]

Are you talking about the 1970 World Cup final in particular? If that is the case, I share your opinion. I consider it among the most overrated games in the history of football. Yes, Pelé's header and C.Alberto's goals belong to the best in their genre, but apart from that (and the three other goals), that final left a lot to be desired. The first half was really bad and in the second half Italy broke down due to exhaustion from the semi final clash with West Germany. There were indeed quite a number of technical mistakes by both teams, but especially and surprisingly by Brazil. I don't know where that came from, maybe for some reason they lacked concentration of were just off-form (whatever) but they usually did not commit such mistakes when on the ball.

Please check the quarterfinal between Brazil and Peru for proof. I regard this game as one of the most technically perfect ever seen at a World Cup.
hmm...ill take a look, but basically, I think we have to question the idea that the technical levels back then were higher. Because if Brazil plays a superior game against Peru, not a top team, it doesn't really say much about their technical standards.

[marcotarcitano]

This is just my opinion, but if you look at the videos of the 1970 Brazil team, I know of their reputation, but when you watch them play, they often seem to make small technical mistakes that I don't think today's best teams do. Honestly, I was not that impressed, they don't seem any better than say, Arsenal.


Arsenal would not see the color of the ball. All due respect, but I think you guys are accostumed to see fast pacing games. I have the 1970's game of Brasil X Italy on tape and I have watched that game at least 20 times.

There was always something funkie about that game. I did not realized what it was until one day, when my wife asked me if that was in slow motion. I know that for some of you will just prove that it was a very slow and boring game, but I see in a different way altogether. After she told me that I rewinded the tape and watched the game again, and for the first time I fully understood how good that team was.

The brasilians players did not run. Period. They just passed the ball to one another over and over again with perfection. Count how many passes they exchanged on the last goal alone. They touched the ball for a full 3 minutes and the italians could do nothing but to run after the ball. Arsenal would have had the same fate. In brasil there is a saying passed from generations to generations: if you are running too much you are in the wrong position. The 1970 brasilian team taught the rest of the world the advantages of playing with a round ball. The only other team I saw play similar to that was the 1982 brasilian squad and the Colombian team ( at the qualifiers only ) at the 1994 world cup. Colombian qualified to the world cup playing a futball seldom seen anywhere. They passed the ball with perfection, but then we saw somehthing completely different once they got here.

I saved the best for last. Netherlands in 1974, a soccer that you can simply not watch today because quite frankly will prevent you from watching anything else today. Cruyff commanded a perfect team. Better than even Brasil because contrary to the south americans they could defend too. Come to think about it, if God grant every human one wish in soccer they probably would choose to be Pele, Maradona, Zico, Zidane or Garrincha.

I would buy myseld the biggest tv possible and I would tell the allmighty to set up a game for me. The 1982 brasilian squad X 1974 dutches. That is for me and event to see. 1974 Netherlands X 1982 Brasil.

What a hell, if I perceived the allmight in good spirits I would sheepishly ask him for allowance to cheat. Please get rid of Serginho and let us have Paulo Rossi for the day.

Cerezo, Socrates, Falcao, Zico and Paulo Rossi against Cruyff and his "Clockwork Orange".

[pramzan]

For me, it's Pele. For the young people here and those who were not fortunate to see him play, I suggest going to youtube and searching for Pele.

He was the greatest.

As for the 1982 Brazil side, they played beautiful football but I think they were so over-rated. Why? They really had no striker. Sure Serginho was totally inept but Paolo Isidoro left little to be desired. Outside of that fantastic midfield of Falcao, Socrates, Cerezo, Zico and even Junior, they had terrible defenders and a terrible goal keeper with Peres.

The 1970 Brazil side was their best even if they were weak in defense. They had the best midfield and the best strikers of any Brazil team or any other national team in the history of the World Cup.

[pramzan]

To me Maradona is the best. Single-handedly won the '86 World Cup and took a sh!t team like Napoli and won a UEFA Cup, 2 Scudettos and a couple of Coppa Italias when AC Milan and Platini's Juventus were the best.

Well that's the problem. He only won two Scudettos and a UEFA Cup. Napoli in the Champion's League (or European Cup as it was called then) were crap. If I remember correctly, they were eliminated pretty quickly both times.

As for the 1986 World Cup, he certainly dominated and brought Argentina to the final. He played a good final against W. Germany, serving up Burruchaga for the game winning goal but unfortunately he didn't score in the final.

As for Pele, he won more at club level and for Brazil. For Santos he won TWO consecutive Intercontinental Cups at a time when the Intercontinental Cup was played by the players with knives in their teeth, unlike today. They beat a GREAT Benfica side led by Eusebio (look at Benfica's presence in the 1960s in the European Cup and you'll know what I mean) and then they beat a GREAT AC Milan side. Those Santos teams, by the way, did not have the greats that you saw play for Brazil.

As for what he did for Brazil, remember that at 17 years of age he scored TWO goals in the 1958 final when Brazil beat Sweden 5-2. One of the two goals he scored in that final is one of the most beautiful in World Cup history. He also scored in the 1970 final against Italy. I still still can't believe how a man who isn't that tall could jump that high. It is one of the most fantastic and memorable goals in the history of the game.

Maradona was great but to me he comes up a little short when you compare him to Pele.

[marcotarcitano]

Well that's the problem. He only won two Scudettos and a UEFA Cup. Napoli in the Champion's League (or European Cup as it was called then) were crap. If I remember correctly, they were eliminated pretty quickly both times.

As for Pele, he won more at club level and for Brazil. For Santos he won TWO consecutive Intercontinental Cups at a time when the Intercontinental Cup was played by the players with knives in their teeth, unlike today. They beat a GREAT Benfica side led by Eusebio (look at Benfica's presence in the 1960s in the European Cup and you'll know what I mean) and then they beat a GREAT AC Milan side. Those Santos teams, by the way, did not have the greats that you saw play for Brazil.

You are so right about this. Older people in Brasil who saw the games live ( in person, no tvs back then ) say that altough Santos players were great players they were not the best Brasil has to offer. What they had was Pele and they played around him. By the way, Garrincha was playing in Botafogo in Rio de Janeiro ( Santos played in Sao Paulo league ) and they won everything until the played Santos. Santos was never the same after Pele left and Botafogo never recovered loosing Garrincha. I guess that is good way to measure how good a player really is. Napoli is still on the greatest team in Italy after Maradona left. All the italians out there plese corret em on this, Udinese had of of their best seasons when Zico was there.

As for what he did for Brazil, remember that at 17 years of age he scored TWO goals in the 1958 final when Brazil beat Sweden 5-2. One of the two goals he scored in that final is one of the most beautiful in World Cup history. He also scored in the 1970 final against Italy. I still still can't believe how a man who isn't that tall could jump that high. It is one of the most fantastic and memorable goals in the history of the game.


All defenders that played against Pele mentioned not jumping for some balls because they thought was too high. Then they turn around and there is Pele heading it to a goal.

Maradona was great but to me he comes up a little short when you compare him to Pele.


It is not even a contest. I think the argentinians and the new generation who see only the same Pele's clips over and over keep the controversy alive. I have told this before that if Pele himself wanted to end this controversy all he had to do is to release 1 goal of his a week on Utube. Off course most of us would be dead that before we could see the whole thing, but I am sure a little happier.

[marcotarcitano]

For me, it's Pele. For the young people here and those who were not fortunate to see him play, I suggest going to youtube and searching for Pele.

He was the greatest.

As for the 1982 Brazil side, they played beautiful football but I think they were so over-rated. Why? They really had no striker. Sure Serginho was totally inept but Paolo Isidoro left little to be desired. Outside of that fantastic midfield of Falcao, Socrates, Cerezo, Zico and even Junior, they had terrible defenders and a terrible goal keeper with Peres.

The 1970 Brazil side was their best even if they were weak in defense. They had the best midfield and the best strikers of any Brazil team or any other national team in the history of the World Cup.

:eek: Are you OK? Leandro and Eder? You are right 2 out of eleven and it cost us the cup. Waldir Perez and Serginho were horrible. On the bench for Serginho was Roberto Dinamite. He played on Vasco da Gama and while Zico was top socre with 25 or 29 goals on the Rior tournment, Dinamite would come right behind him with 24 or 28. Also he was just as good as Zico on free kick. Nobody ever understood while Serginho played. We also had a genius on the bench name Reinaldo and even hurt he would have been better than Serginho.

[Gregoriak]

hmm...ill take a look, but basically, I think we have to question the idea that the technical levels back then were higher. Because if Brazil plays a superior game against Peru, not a top team, it doesn't really say much about their technical standards.

Peru was definitely a top team back in 1970. Technically, they could easily hold their own against Brazil in that tournament. If you like technical football, you should definitely check the meeting of these two sides in Mexico. Peru in 1970s was kinda like Columbia in the 1990s. The third South American power.



There was always something funkie about that game. I did not realized what it was until one day, when my wife asked me if that was in slow motion. I know that for some of you will just prove that it was a very slow and boring game, but I see in a different way altogether.

Mexico 1970 saw slower football because of the intense, excruciating heat the teams faced, especially when playing at noon. You just couldn't play high paced action football under these circumstances. No problem for me, since teams had to concentrate more on the technical side of the game.


I saved the best for last. Netherlands in 1974, a soccer that you can simply not watch today because quite frankly will prevent you from watching anything else today. Cruyff commanded a perfect team. Better than even Brasil because contrary to the south americans they could defend too. Come to think about it, if God grant every human one wish in soccer they probably would choose to be Pele, Maradona, Zico, Zidane or Garrincha.

I would buy myseld the biggest tv possible and I would tell the allmighty to set up a game for me. The 1982 brasilian squad X 1974 dutches. That is for me and event to see. 1974 Netherlands X 1982 Brasil.

Holland 1974 is one of my favorite all-time teams as well. It wasn't only Cruyff, there also were Wim van Hanegem, Ruud Krol, Ruud Neeskens, Wim Suurbier, Wim Jansen, Johnny Rep and Robbie Rensenbrink. My personal dream meeting would be Cruyff's Holland '74 vs. Netzer's West Germany '72.

[Bertje]

Holland 1974 is one of my favorite all-time teams as well. It wasn't only Cruyff, there also were Wim van Hanegem, Ruud Krol, Ruud Neeskens, Wim Suurbier, Wim Jansen, Johnny Rep and Robbie Rensenbrink. My personal dream meeting would be Cruyff's Holland '74 vs. Netzer's West Germany '72.

Ruud Neeskens?;)

Van Hanegem was pure class that tournament. He was easily the second best player of Holland at the time (and arguably the third best player we ever produced), yet he did all he could to make Cruijff shine. Though we could have used Mühren in the final. I still think Mühren would have done better against Germany's midfield, because of his amazing running stamina.

Rensenbrink was pretty much the same story as Van Hanegem: he worked for Cruijff and dissapointed (because of his injury) in th final.

Rep was probably one of the weakest links in the team, though he fitted in well because of his goalscoring capabilities. It's no surprise he was one of the players who got the most criticism from Cruijff.

[dor02]

This kid from England Theo shows promisse. We will see.I expect nothing from him. He's just another English forward that the media will brag about and when he is meant to peak, he's already finished! He will be like Owen and Rooney may head that way if the media go to far. The next Greeves, Lineker or Shearer won't come if the English media don't button their lips.

The Ultimate Players to Have Walked on the Planet are Pele and Maradona. Very self-explainitory. Although those two legends could do anything with a football, there were players who had many unique characteristics or certain characteristics that made players unique.

Here's a few:

Garrincha's dummies and turns were great to watch. Nobody will managed to stop and go in the manner he did. He could just come to a sudden halt and then accelerate in a flash. After such acceleration, he could cross the ball with such ease. His body looked distorted thanks to his crook legs and that gave him that element of surprise.

Van Basten is the kind of striker that you want to play like. The game has produce many great finishers but strikers like him are rare. He was tall but he was so agile and he movement was smooth and neat. He didn't score many solo goals but when did, he was a man who had the ball glued to his feet. He knew where he should have been to score goals but he wasn't a conventional opportunist. He could sneak though the tightest gaps and he could score from half-chances easier than anyone else. Everyone talk about his volley goal against the USSR in the Euro 88 Final but watch his goal against West Germany in the semis. He reads Wouters' pass, turns Kohler and he practically slides in and score with a shot that resembled a sliding tackle. No current striker can score a goal like that.

Baggio isn't Top 10 material but he needs to be mentioned. I doubt that anyone can bend a ball like he did. Zico and numerous Brazilians could do it too but I doubt that Serie A fans will see a player like Baggio anytime soon. He could bend the ball from normal play and from any angle. He didn't need to score with thunderous shot. He had many other ways of scoring. Bending shots were one thing but he could volley or chip his shots and it didn't matter how many defenders were on him or close-by. What the likes of del Piero, Zola and Totti could do, Baggio would do it better. Thanks to Italy's reputation as a development ground for great defenders, Italy's great offensive talents like Meazza, Rivera and Baggio aren't recognised by neutrals as much as the likes of Facchetti, Scirea, Baresi and Maldini.

[marcotarcitano]

[QUOTE=dor02;11038722]I expect nothing from him. He's just another English forward that the media will brag about and when he is meant to peak, he's already finished! He will be like Owen and Rooney may head that way if the media go to far. The next Greeves, Lineker or Shearer won't come if the English media don't button their lips.


I know exactly what you are saying. I hope, for the sake of soccer that Theo turn out to be the player we all expect him to become. But the reality is that there is too much hype on some of these kids, like it is the case of Freddy Adu in America. At one point, his name was being mentioned in the same sentence as Pele. I guess that is why the argentinians in general dislike Pele. You tell the world that another Pele is coming and there is Pele taking pictures, smiling, juggling the ball with him, with no concerns.

It is funny. It is almost as if Pele is saying to the world, I score 1200 goals and stopped playing at 29 and if you think it is easy, best luck to you.

[marcotarcitano]

I can't believe we have not mentioned this kid's name in this thread yet. Out of Brasil there might come the best chance of surpassing Pele we ever had anywhere in the world. His name is Jean Carlos.

Few years back this kid was playing for a small team that had the brilliant idea of posting this 9 years old child plays on the internet, hoping for a sale I pressume. Santos took a hold of him and stopped with the interviews and profiles and gave this kid his childhood back. And a chance to develop in peace.

Give another 4 years and this name will be a household name. His talent is unbelievable and as early as 6 years old he already had complete control of the field. He plays like an 25 year old would. He is truly an genius and unless something really wrong happens he is going to be no doubt the best soccer player in the world.

If you have not seen this video yet, prepare to be amazed. Notice what he does with a soccer ball at 6 years old. Then at 9 and 11.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6919964836370532911&q=jean+carlos

[Teso Dos Bichos]

Yet another trolling post from you about the kid. If you want to preach about him then either do a search or create your own thread. Stop ruining other discussions. :rolleyes:

[marcotarcitano]

Yet another trolling post from you about the kid. If you want to preach about him then either do a search or create your own thread. Stop ruining other discussions. :rolleyes:

I am really sorry. English is my fourth language and I guess I misread the thread topic. THE ULTIMATE SOCCER PLAYER TO WALK THE EARTH

I can't see why I would post about this kid here. What was the name of the sport that he is playing again? Is he good at it? Do you know of any other kid that can do that at 6 ,10,12 years old ( the progression of age on the tape ).

I merely saving time by posting it now, rather than in 6 years. I figure someone who never heard of him would appreciate it.

You are a nutcase. :p

[Teso Dos Bichos]

Don't be stupid and stop trolling. We all know about the kid, as there have been numerous threads posted about him. Do a search. Stop wasting our time and ruining good threads.

[marcotarcitano]

This thread is not about who is the best leader, but who is the best player.

Best player was Pele. It is not even a comparison.

[marcotarcitano]

Don't be stupid and stop trolling. We all know about the kid, as there have been numerous threads posted about him. Do a search. Stop wasting our time and ruining good threads.

I do not think you are smart enought to get this, but I will try to explain to you for the last time.

First of all, it is extremely arrogant of you to speak for everyone else on this thread. Don't use "we" or "our" when you post for that is stupid. If everyone else wanted to say something about this they would have done so.

Second, I have already apologize and explained that in talking about generics on another thread I remembered this kid and I thought would be nice to share in case someone never heard of him.

Then again when I read the topic I found absolutely relevant and a nice break from discussing who is a better between Pele and Maradona. I actually like to read what people have to say all over the world about this.

Now, adressing the part that you seemed to have missed. There are a lot of other people on this thread and they did not complained at all. I am sure some of them thought the same thing but they used their common sense and realized that I was trying to be helpfull. Most likely, they heard of this kid before and they just ignored my posting and continue talking about what they want to talk about. No big deal, no harm done. None of them thought that they needed to attack me about it. For all of them, I will say again that I thought it was appropriate for this thread.

Finally, I have posted the same thing in other threads for the same reason and nobody reacted like you did. The people who had seen it made a comment about it and everyone else who probably talked about this before just ignored the posting. You on the other hand accuse me of having an ulterior motive, other than passion for soccer and began your conversation with me by being sarcastic and rude for no reason. I posted again and explained to you why I did and you kept being rude.

So stop your attacks for you are mistaken if you think I am an easy target. You are picking a fight with me for no reason and you are doing on the name of everyone else on this thread. Ridiculous, don't you think? I reacognize you as an intellectual bully and I am telling you to back off but in the chance that I am wrong and you are just insecure beyond believe, then let me give what you need to hear to make you feel better.

I am sorry, I did not mean to offend you. I know it must be hard for you but "the rest of us" have to live in your planet too. "We" will try not to breath to heavily and "we" will try not to upset you. Please refrain from hurting any little animals and if you get upset leave your laptop outside of your rubber bedroom and you should be fine.

[Quaresma_7]

top 10 header of all time.
top 10 left foot striker of all time.
top 10 right foot striker of all time.
great assister, great ball control, great athletic condition (run the 100m in 10.8, a incredible mark), play 1958-1973 at HIGH level.
No bad seasons, no great lesions, any loose in personal confront in this time, recognized by the best by almost all players who have seen he playng (cruyff, beckenbauer, puskas, gérson, eusébio, even maradona say that).

maradona, for example, was a great player but lack in much points, like regularity, personal life problems influing in the play, explosive personality who make him much times sent off, doping, bad head, bad athletics....

no doubt he was the greatest player ever, then eusebio and maradona, then cruyff beckenbauer zidane best, then otheres.... but i dont think he could run the 100m in 10.8s if he did im pretty sure he woul also have an olympic medal in his trophy cabinet... in the 60's sprinters were still running in the 10s+ mark but im not sure on any numbers

[Tribune]

no doubt he was the greatest player ever, then eusebio and maradona, then cruyff beckenbauer zidane best, then otheres.... but i dont think he could run the 100m in 10.8s if he did im pretty sure he woul also have an olympic medal in his trophy cabinet... in the 60's sprinters were still running in the 10s+ mark but im not sure on any numbers


In fact, the world record at that time was 10 seconds : 9.95 seconds in 1968 after the introduction of electronic measurement.

And, yes, Pele could run 100 meters in 10.8 seconds, but that was not enough to give him an olympic medal.
I don't see why you should be suprised, there are football players who are excellent sprinters, good enough to compete in the olympics (I'm not saying that they would also win :p ).