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Gregoriak
24 Feb 2007, 06:56 AM
A kid in the year 2025 watching Valdes' blunder in the Barca-Liverpool game from Wednesday as part of a highlights reel called "The Level of Goalkeeping in the 21st century was abysmal" would certainly get the impression that goalkeeping was indeed "a joke" in our era ...

brassmonkey
24 Feb 2007, 08:24 PM
I think the argument is extremely flawed.

Di Stefano, Pele, Cruijff, Maradona, Zidane

Each is the best of their era, and each have their fine points, but we don't know who would have adapted had they been born in another time, or whether or not the defenders they went up against were better.

charlieblanko
25 Feb 2007, 06:01 PM
A kid in the year 2025 watching Valdes' blunder in the Barca-Liverpool game from Wednesday as part of a highlights reel called "The Level of Goalkeeping in the 21st century was abysmal" would certainly get the impression that goalkeeping was indeed "a joke" in our era ...


I agree, i think it is caused by teams not putting much emphasis on having a "great" keeper
They are far and few between it seems like in major soccer play
"Casillas" is probably the best to me and really is a "great" keeper
("great" is a powerfull word as well)

I do think their are "great great keepers" out in the world but people dont want to spend the money or just dont care enough about the position to put them in a "highlighted" position to showcase the skills they have

The Ghana keeper from the world cup is a perfect example and their are others in other leagues (mexico,& argentine league has a few also)globally that dont recieve recognition because of the position

|PAtrick|
12 Mar 2007, 03:18 PM
Maradona obviously.

Pelé was good because he played with another players as good as him.

zenden
12 Mar 2007, 03:51 PM
To me Maradona is the best. Single-handedly won the '86 World Cup and took a sh!t team like Napoli and won a UEFA Cup, 2 Scudettos and a couple of Coppa Italias when AC Milan and Platini's Juventus were the best.

marcotarcitano
12 Mar 2007, 05:53 PM
That still doesn't do it for me tbh. Some guy telling me Pele was the best with very little proof.

What about visual proof? Would that be enough? Before I give you that let me tell you this: Pele was the greatest soccer player ever and Maradona does not come even close. Maradona himself gave an interview after the film "Pele Eterno" came out and surprised everyone when he said that after waching the movie he knew that Pele was better. Search Google for that interview and you will find it. I am sure that some of you will still say that not only he was the best player he is being really modest. Well then let us move to the visual proof.

Before anyone comment on Pele again they should see the movie that came named "Pele Eterno". The movie is divided in different skills of Pele as a player. You will see him scoring with his head, right foot and left foot, bicycle kicks and many other ways. What it is most impressive will be the testimony of all the other international players who played against him on the field. No other player was able to use the refeeree and other defenders legs as a "wall" to pass the ball to himself behing a third defender. A german defender says on the tape that he thought it was an accident until Pele repeat the play few minutes later in the same game. On the tape you will see Pele doing just that for at least 30 times.
On the tape you will see Pele take himself of the field for a few minutes because he had a infected nail on his right foot that it was bothering him. The coach said that because of the pain it would best that Pele came out and to his surprise Pele said matter factly that he would play with his left foot. Watch next the games inserts whee you see Pele doing just that. He controls the ball with his left foot, passes and score a goal with his left foot. He played the entire second half with his left foot. You do not have to take my word for it all you need to do is get the dvd. Maradona played with his left leg only.
The person who compared Pele to genius in other fields was absolutely right. Watch the dvd. The most remarkable testimony comes from the brasilian players themselves. One of the most vivid images in soccer history is of Pele shooting the ball right before midfield and the goalllie desperately trying to move back to get it. On the dvd you will hear Gerson, the great brasilian midfielder, say that together with Brito they yelled at Pele for "giving the ball away". Gerson said that Pele kept looking forwward and when he followed the play he realized what he had just done. Gerson said that at that moment, 1970 World Cup, he knew that Pele was a genius You see the play in the dvd. That is the mark of a genius for even the crowd took few seconds to realize what was happening and if you have seen footage of that play you remmeber that they all applauded.
What is frustating is to hear from people who never seen Pele play compare him to Maradona. Maradona was a great player and when Maradona himself came out and told the argentina press that Pele was better he was not being modest. If you really like football, find the dvd and buy it and I guarantee you will never compare Maradona to Pele again.
Perhaps, Michell Plattini had the best answer to this question when someone asked him who was better. His answer?
"Asked me that again when Maradona score 1280 goals. Until then Pele is better."
In science terms, Maradona is to Einstein what Pele was to Isaac Newton. Einstein was the second greatest genius to walk this earth but Newton left behind th "Principia" as a testament of his greater genius.The greatest achievement of any human intelect followed by einstein "theory of relativity". Maradona is a comtemporary and we remember him better but what bothers me is that some of you make the comparison by watching the few plays that are available from Pele.To end this controversy Pele should place on U TUBE all his plays and all his 1280 goals. The problem is that who has the time to watch them all?
Buy the dvd "Pele Eterno" Watch and stop the nonsense already.:)

Marco Tarcitano

|PAtrick|
12 Mar 2007, 09:09 PM
The film is pure ****

marcotarcitano
12 Mar 2007, 11:14 PM
The film is pure ****

Off course you say that you are from Argentina. Beside the fact that Maradona in his best day was never as good as Pele once you consider his character he is pretty much done. I am from Brasil and I coached kids for about 20 years and I have always told all the kids that Maradona is the best soccer player ever after Pele. Unfortunaltely, I could never use Maradona as example for the kids because of his character. He was a drug addicted and it is shamefull to google his name and see him kicking and fighting inside the soccer field. Romario is the same way by the way. Another great player who lost himself in his own fame and ego.
There is not one incident of Pele fighting anyone and his chraracter inside and outside the soccer field was never in question. It is no wonder that Fifa invites Pele to every function. Before you say that I am only saying this because I am brasilian I will tell you that my favorite player is not Pele but the great Zico who also is a great role model for children who love the sport. Zico married his wife before he was famous and still married today to the same woman today, and in a country like Brasil with so many women around it is amazing that he remained true to his character. Actually as a role model he is even better thatn Pele but marriage is very subjective anyway. What it is not subjective is a player who doped himself throughout his carrer and that began his carrer in the international level by entering the field against Brasil and kick a brasilian player( batista I believe ) in the stomach. Every time I see Maradona anywhere I think the same thing.What a waist. Then I remember the skills and I think: What a player!

|PAtrick|
13 Mar 2007, 12:46 PM
Off course you say that you are from Argentina.

as you want. Maradona is the best.

The end.

Two differents opinions, for two great player.
:D

Gregoriak
13 Mar 2007, 04:11 PM
To me Maradona is the best. Single-handedly won the '86 World Cup ...


No player ever won a game 'single-handedly', yet alone a whole World Cup. Now look at 17-year-old Pelé in 1958. What did he do back then? He scored the decisive goal in a World Cup semi-final. Impressive, but not yet earth-shattering. Next game, semi-final against the second-best side in that tournament, France. What does that 17-year-old unknown boy do? He scores 3 goals to put his side into the World Cup final. That is pretty amazing for any player, but it is otherwordly for a 17-year-old. Now comes the final. This 17-year-old boy not only scores 2 goals in a World Cup final (amazing feat in itself), he also scores one of the coolest executed goals ever in that game. If there ever has been a player coming remotely close to winning a World Cup 'single-handedly', then this player was Pelé in 1958. When Maradona stunned the world in 1986, he was 25 years old, at the peak of his powers. When Pelé stunned the world in 1958, he was 17. He was already phenomenal at that young age, but still not the player he would be in the early-to-mid-1960s. Pelé was at his absolute peak between 1960 and 1965, like Maradona was at his absolute peak between 1984 and 1987. Yet unfortunately for Pelé, the world never got to see Pelé play a World Cup at the peak of his powers. The 1962 or 1966 World Cups should have been the stage for Pelé to exhibit his great talents, but he happened to pick up injuries in each of these tournaments. Maradona was not that unfortunate, for he could showcase his great talents in 1986, when he was unrivalled in world football.

...and took a sh!t team like Napoli and won a UEFA Cup, 2 Scudettos and a couple of Coppa Italias when AC Milan and Platini's Juventus were the best.

1. Napoli won exactly 1 Coppa Italia when Maradona was there (1987), not 'a couple'.

2. In his first two seasons at Napoli, Maradona didn't win anything (1984-85 & 1985-86). Hellas Verona and Platini's Juve ruled Serie A, while Maradona's Napoli finished 8th (!!) and 3rd in these years. Platini played one final year for Juve in 86-87 but he wasn't the same anymore and duly retired afterwards.

3. AC Milan won the European Cup in 1989 and 1990, but they really only began to rule Serie A in the early 1990s. Before 1988, AC Milan was certainly not among the very best sides in Italy. In 1986-87, the ageing Juve team was on its way out while the newly emerging Milan was not yet a top side (they finished 5th). In 1989, it was Inter that won the scudetto. Thus the only year Maradona's Napoli could really claim to have fought off Milan was in 1990, but remember that Gullit was injured almost the whole season.

4. What's the big deal about winning one lousy UEFA Cup? Have you looked at how badly Napoli did in all the other years when Maradona played there? Apart from that UEFA Cup, Maradona's international record with Napoli is atrocious.

Additionally, Pelé did much the same with Santos FC. That team was also totally unknown outside of Brazil before Pelé signed there in 1956. Six years later, it was the best side in the whole world of club football ... which Napoli never was when Maradona played for them.

|PAtrick|
13 Mar 2007, 09:44 PM
Do you compare the low-level that has the brazilian league with the "serie a" :p

marcotarcitano
14 Mar 2007, 08:45 AM
Do you compare the low-level that has the brazilian league with the "serie a" :p

Low-level? HAHAHA. Now that is funny. Patrick, you should ask Manchester United about that. Few years back Fifa decided to have the first World cup of clubs and it was held in Brasil. At that time, Manchester United was considered the best team in the world and the favorite to win the european league and considered by many umbeatable. Up to this day I think the president of Fifa set them up by setting up this tournament.
Manchester United coach arrived in Brasil giving interviews of how happy he was to be there and how excited he was to have his team invited to this tournament. After a few minutes of talking he said that he believed no team in Brasil could beat his team at this particular moment and to that the brasilian reporters just laugh.
Brasil is known worlwide for 3 things: soccer, beautiful women and carnaval. Brasilians convinientely forget all the crime, but quite frankly with all the distractions from the beautiful girls and the beautiful game plus the gallons and more gallons of beer consumed at a temperature that rarely is colder than 60 degrees, who can blame then.
With the tournament set up, brasilians got ready for the games. There is another element of brasilian life that is seldom mention and is that brasilians make fun of just about anything and there arre always laughing and finding things to amuse themselves. That tournment Manchest United was the main entertainment but not for the reasons they expected. Among brasilian there were bets going around of how many brasilian teams Manchester United was going to beat. The word in the street was that they were going to have the surprise of their lives. At about 25 minutes during the game Manchester United X Vasco the reports began laughing an asking themselves when the main team was going to arrive. People began cheering and laughing in Maracan when they saw the fullbacks of Manchester United do what english soccer does: long balls on the end zone and traping and crossing and:eek: boring!!!!!!!! Vasco just sat there passing the ball back and forth, until Manchester United got tired. By the end of the first half Vasco was already winning by 4 goals. The brasilians on the stand began yelling for another team.
I love soccer so forgive the long stories. The brasilian league is the best and the hardest league in the world comparable only to the spanish and italian league. Argentina has 2 of the most amazing clubs in the world every year with no exception but I know very little about the quality of the league itself. If everything else fails remember that in a country not famous by its soccer defense all forward manage to do allright when they appear on the scene. It is only after they go to europe that the double the amountof goals the score in a season. Zico, Romario, Rivaldo, Bebeto, Ronaldo,Ronaldinho and etc..

sidis
14 Mar 2007, 09:08 AM
actually vasco win that game for 3x1 ( 2 from romario and 1 edmundo.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8GIMI2D3ms

real madrid suffering the same thing against corinthians, the real defender who say never had hear about edilson was destroyed by him, with a incredible nutmeg and goal.

and at this time palmeiras was the best team in the brazil.

TomClare
15 Mar 2007, 09:38 AM
Sorry - but imho the greatest player ever, because of his ALL ROUND skills, has to be the late Duncan Edwards who perished at Munich.

Duncan Edwards – Simply The Best

"The best player that I've ever seen, the best footballer that I've ever played with for United or England, the only other player who ever made me feel inferior." Those are the words of one of the greatest players ever to grace the world football stage, one of the greatest ambassadors of the game, and most of all, one of life's gentlemen - Sir Bobby Charlton. The player that he was talking about? Well, he was a young man - just. He played the game until he was only 21 years and 143 days old. But in that so short career, he left such an indelible mark, both on the game, and for the people that were fortunate enough to have watched him, on their memories. It says so much about him, that even now, almost 47 years after his passing, he is still talked about and remembered, not only by the fans of the club for which he played and loved so much, who cherish that memory so guardedly, but also, by football fans throughout the British Isles and Europe. He was a household name by the time that he had reached his eighteenth birthday. He was indeed world class, a colossus, a giant in the truest sense of the word, a great, and he has certainly become a legend. In the modern day, when those words are bandied about and bestowed upon players so freely and so easily, when put against this young man's profile, no other words could describe him more aptly - he is of course, Duncan Edwards.

During the last few weeks, the BBC has been running their "England Dream Team" competition. Of course, Duncan was amongst the nominations but never even got near to the team finally selected. There are a number of reasons for this, the main one being I suspect, would be the fact that the majority of the voters were too young to have watched him play. Others I also suspect, just can't accept that there was once a young player who was just so good. It's difficult for them to believe that there was ever "the perfect player." It must make them wonder just who this wonderful young man was? Could he have been the player that he was made out to be? Are the descriptions of him over-exaggerated? Over the years, much has been written about Duncan, some of it true, some of it myth. Those of us who were around during his time and did watch him play, know which is which.
I was fortunate to have watched Duncan for the majority of his first team career and have so many, many, memories of him. He was a wonderful human being as well as being a great football player. Let me tell you a few things about him, and then about my memories of him.


Duncan was born on October 1st, 1936, to Gladstone and Sara-Ann Edwards, in a little terraced house at 23, Malvern Crescent, in the Black Country town of Dudley, Worcestershire. They were a typical hard working, working class family, just like so many of their contemporaries of that time. His late Mum used to tell the story about Duncan being able to kick a ball before he could even walk! His parents had a set of reins which they would tie around his waist, and whilst Gladstone would hold him upright, Duncan would kick the ball up and down their living room, much to their amusement. He grew into a young giant for his age, a huge frame - much bigger than children of his own age. He loved to play football. His waking hours were spent playing the game whenever the opportunity would arise, and if he wasn't actually playing football, then he would dream about it. It was obvious to anybody watching this young man, that he was so gifted and skilful where football was concerned. At the tender age of eight, he was playing in his School team against boys two, and three years older than himself. By the time he was eleven years old, he was playing for his Town team, and also representing Worcestershire Schoolboys, his County team - he was three years younger than his team mates. Around that time, Duncan wrote an essay at school in which he recalled a conversation between his father and uncle. During that conversation, he had heard his father remark that England would be playing Scotland at Wembley Stadium, the following Saturday. Duncan plucked up the courage to interrupt the conversation and ask the question; 'where is Wembley Stadium?' His uncle told him that it was in London. Duncan related to him how much he would like to play there. Little was he to know at that time, just how soon his dream would come true. On April 1st, 1950, at aged just 13 years old, Duncan strode out from the tunnel and onto the hallowed Wembley turf, in front of 100,000 spectators, wearing the shirt of England Schoolboys, representing his country, playing at left half, against the Wales Schoolboys team. He played in every England schoolboy international fixture for the next three seasons, and was even made England captain at just 14 years old. That record of playing for three successive seasons for England schoolboys still stands today, as does his being the youngest ever captain, and I doubt very much if those two records will ever be broken.

Obviously, a talent such as this attracted a lot of attention. From the moment he became a schoolboy international, lots of the top professional clubs courted his parents in the hope that they would eventually land the signature of this remarkable young boy. All the big Midlands clubs were prominent, Wolves, Albion, Villa, Birmingham, as well as Arsenal, Tottenham Hotspur, and Chelsea. A chance conversation between two old adversaries, as well as old army friends, was the beginning of the road to Old Trafford for Duncan. In 1950, Joe Mercer, then still playing for Arsenal, was doing some coaching with the England schoolboy team. After a game between United and Arsenal, Joe happened to remark to Matt Busby what a remarkable talent he had seen in the England schoolboys team, and that in his opinion; 'young Edwards is going to be some player'. This alerted Busby, and he sent his trusted chief scout, Joe Armstrong, down to Dudley to watch the young Edwards play. After just ten minutes, Armstrong had seen enough, and recommended that Busby should go and watch this young man for himself. The following week, both Matt and Jimmy Murphy slipped unobtrusively into Dudley and watched Duncan play. They too, did not have to stay for too long watching Duncan play, and on the way back to Manchester, Busby told Jimmy that this was one young player that United must not miss out on. For the next two years they kept an eye on things and at 2 a.m. on the morning of October 1st 1952, a bleary eyed Gladstone Edwards came downstairs to answer the knocking on the front door of his home. Stood there outside in the darkness was Matt Busby and Jimmy Murphy. He invited both men into the living room, and called Sara-Ann. For the next hour the four of them talked about the possibility of Duncan joining Manchester United. Gladstone told both of them that the decision would be left to Duncan as to which club he would like to join - unbeknowns to him, Sara-Ann already knew the answer! Duncan had confided to her the previous morning. Gladstone called Duncan, and this big giant of a boy arrived in the living room wearing his pyjamas, rubbing the sleep out of his eyes, and immediately upon recognizing Matt Busby said; 'Mr. Busby, there's only one club that I want to play football for, and that's Manchester United. I'd give anything to sign for them'. It was as simple as that - he'd followed the exploits of the United team that had won the FA Cup in 1948, the 1st Division Championship in 1952, and who had also finished runners-up in the league on four other occasions. Their brand of football had captivated him. He was a United fan! A few minutes after meeting Matt Busby, Duncan was a Manchester United player, and a few days later he left the family home for digs in Stretford, and a career in professional football.

Upon his arrival at Old Trafford Duncan was quietly introduced and within weeks it was apparent that here was somebody truly remarkable, with a remarkable talent, and one which hadn't been seen before. The coaches reporting back to Busby stated that there was absolutely nothing that they could coach into this kid. He was just so natural, and gifted, in everything that he did. Nothing fazed him, the surroundings, his team mates, opposing players - he just had the perfect temperament. In no time at all Duncan had been promoted into the reserve team and his performances belied his young years. Even at this youthful age, he had a superb physique. Players of his own age looked under nourished compared to him! But for a big lad, he was exceptionally quick over the ground, could turn either way with a devastating body-swerve, had two great feet, a tremendous shot in either foot, was exceptionally powerful in the air, so strong in the tackle, but most importantly, for one so young, his positional play was flawless because he read the game so well. It also soon became apparent that he could play anywhere in any position, and still be the most outstanding player on the park! Just six months after his arrival at Old Trafford, the day that he had lived and dreamed about arrived. On Saturday, April 2nd 1953, at the age of 16 years and 185 days, he appeared out of the tunnel wearing the number 6 shirt in Manchester United's first team playing against Cardiff City in a Football League Division One match.

My earliest recollections of Duncan are of seeing him play in a reserve team game at Old Trafford early in 1953. It was astonishing to see this young giant playing amongst men. In hindsight, it was his age that first attracted me to him being a favourite of mine. United?s reserve team wing halves in the second half of that season were two really young players - Jeff Whitefoot, who was younger than Duncan when he had made his first team debut, and Duncan himself. After he made his debut, Duncan hardly appeared in a reserve game again, although he did play in the Youth team, and won a winners medal in the inaugural season of the FA Youth Cup. In 1953/54, his reputation started to gain momentum, and even though he was just 17, he appeared for the England Under-23 team against Italy, in Bologna. He had already started to earn rave notices with his outstanding displays in the first team. In those days, there was some really outstanding players around who had huge reputations. They meant nothing at all to Duncan - even at such a young age, he just eclipsed them with the power and polish of his own performance.

The late Jackie Milburn used to tell the story of the day that he first came up against Duncan. He recalls early on in the game standing besides him and listening as Duncan told him; 'I know that you are a great player Mr. Milburn, and that you have a big reputation, but it means nothing at all to me. Today I am not going to allow you a kick at the ball.' This was from a young 16 years old boy - it wasn-t arrogance, or egoism, it was Duncan's inherent self-belief in his own ability. As Jackie was to say; 'the thing was, Duncan was absolutely true to his word, I hardly did get a kick throughout that game and United won 5-2. I just could not believe how mature this young kid was, and what ability and self-belief he had'. His reputation had already started to grow, but it never went to his head. He had his feet firmly planted on the ground. Duncan knew he was special, I don't think that he ever doubted that. He just loved to play, be it in the first team or even the Youth team, he gave each game the same commitment. His appetite for playing was voracious. Jimmy Murphy recalled another game, this time a Youth team match early in the stages of the competition against a well known London team. From the very start of the game, there was a loud mouth sat behind Jimmy who kept on baiting him by shouting; 'where's your famous Edwards then Murphy, where's this so-called superstar?' Jimmy just gritted his teeth and said nothing until about ten minutes into the game, a tackle was won in the centre circle, and the tackler was away with the ball and moving towards goal. Several of the opposition players tried to get within touching distance of him, but he was just too strong. From full 30 yards he unleashed a tremendous shot that hardly got off the ground. Before the home goalkeeper could move, it was past him and nestling into the back of the net. Jimmy just smiled, turned around, looked the loud mouth straight in the eye, and said; 'that's Edwards!'

The Youth team were formidable in those first years of the Youth Cup competition, and nigh on unbeatable - they won it for the first five years of its inception. I personally can recall a semi-final against the Chelsea Youth team. Ted Drake had also put together a really good team of youngsters in 1954/55. The first leg had been drawn at Stamford Bridge 2-2. In the return leg, played at Old Trafford on a Saturday morning in front of 30,000 spectators, Chelsea held the upper hand at half-time and led 2-1. In the second half, Edwards moved up to centre forward. Within minutes of the re-start, Terry Beckett floated over a cross from the right, and there was Duncan powering into the area, soaring above everybody, to really thump the ball with his head past the goalkeeper, and level the tie. Sometime later, there was a corner to United on the left hand side at the Scoreboard End. Denis Fidler floated it towards the penalty spot, and once again, Duncan's timing and power got him there before anybody could react, and another bullet header was planted into the net. He then moved back to left half, and his influence on the young kids around him, made sure that they were never going to lose that tie.

He was such a wonderful young boy. In those days, United players used to make their own way to the ground for home games. Duncan used to have an old Raleigh bicycle, and this was his mode of transport for getting to and from the ground. I would stand on the railway bridge and wait for him as he would come wheeling down what was then Warwick Road (now Sir Matt Busby Way). Once across the bridge he would turn left and free-wheel down to the old Ticket Office, with a stream of kids (me included) chasing after him. He would alight from his bicycle, prop it up against his leg, get all the kids to line up, and he would stand there signing the books and bits of paper before taking a piece of string out of his pocket, secure the bike to a drain pipe, and disappear inside to the dressing room. It was the same ritual in reverse after the game - out he would come, line up the kids once more, sign every book and bit of paper before untying the bike, climbing aboard it, and then he was off, back up Warwick Road, and on to his digs in Stretford.
In April of 1955, he was selected to play for England against Scotland at Wembley - he became the youngest player ever to play for his country at senior level at the age of just 18 years and 183 days. Unheard of in those distant days - teenagers just weren't good enough, nor experienced enough to play for England - or so the thought process went! He had in fact represented England at schoolboy, Youth, Under-23, and B-team level before then. He took to international football like a duck to water, and was never left out of England's team again. In the Autumn of 1955, England went to Berlin to play the then World Champions, West Germany, at the Olympiastadion, in front of 100,000 spectators. For the first 20 minutes of the game, the Germans had given England a torrid time, but then Duncan made a tackle midway inside the German half and won the ball. His acceleration was so quick, it just took him past two startled German defenders, and from 25 yards, he just bombed the ball into the back of the net before the 'keeper could move. Even today, the Germans remember him by the nickname that they bestowed upon him that day - "Boom-Boom!" The following winter, the Brazilians arrived at Wembley, testing the water for their assault on the World Cup Finals to be held in Sweden in the summer of 1958. Most of the players the Brazilians used in Sweden actually played in that game at Wembley. They were outclassed by an England team that won 4-2, and missed two penalties in the process. Tommy Taylor led their defence a merry dance, but Duncan eclipsed the man who was to be their big star in Sweden - Didi. Didi was made to look more than ordinary, and believe me, this fellow was up there with the best of them - Pele, Best, Di Stefano, Puskas. Edwards won 18 caps in total and scored 5 international goals. There is no doubt in my mind that he would have played for England for a very long time but for fate. I also believe that England, and not Brazil, would have lifted the 1958 World Cup but for Munich, and also the cruel loss of Jeff Hall, the Birmingham City full back, to polio. The very heart was ripped out of a very, very, good England team.

In 1955/56, Matt Busby's famous "Babes" team became of age and lifted the Championship with an average age of just 22 years, and by a margin of 11 points. They suffered a shock defeat in the FA Cup third round against Second Division Bristol Rovers at Eastville by the astonishing scoreline of 4-0. Last year, I had occasion to ask one of the 606 Substitute guys who lives in Bristol, to recall this fact to an old friend of his. This old friend looked at Steve when asked about that game and said; 'Aye, we won 4-0, but you have to remember that Edwards didn't play in that game'. That was the esteem that Duncan was held in by the British football fan.

From late 1955 to late 1957, Duncan also had to serve his National Service, and did so in the Royal Army Ordnance Corps. He hated having to do this time in the Services, but like most of the young men of that time, he took it on the chin and just got on with it. In 1956/57 he picked up another Championship winner's medal and also appeared in United's losing Cup Final team against Aston Villa. In that Final was the only time that he came close to losing self control on the football pitch. He was horrified to watch the vicious assault by Villa winger Peter McParland upon Ray Wood in the United goal, during the opening minutes of that game. It effectively put Wood out of the game with a fractured cheek-bone and reduced United to 10 men. As McParland lay on the ground Duncan strode over to him, but then held back before the red mist descended. He was scrupulously fair, and expected nothing less from opposing players

He played in European competition that year also, My abiding memory of him during that European campaign was not of him in any of United's victories, but in the semi-final, second leg defeat by that great Real Madrid team of that era. Although that game had been drawn 2-2, United had been eliminated by 5-3 on aggregate. Over the two legs, the Spanish Champions had employed some really dubious tactics, and also United were on the end of some very suspicious decisions from the referee in the away leg in Spain. Twice they had what seemed legitimate goals ruled out for offside. As he came off the field that evening, I could see the hurt, and dejection etched in his face. He'd run his socks off that night, but even his superhuman efforts were not enough to pull of an almost impossible victory. It hurt him, you could see that.

The last time that I saw him play was on Saturday, January 25th 1958 in a 4th round FA Cup tie at Old Trafford, against Ipswich Town, which United won by 2-0. His last appearance in England was on February 1st 1958, against Arsenal at Highbury. It was fitting that it was a game that was an absolute classic, which United won by 5-4 and Duncan was outstanding, scoring very early in the game with one of his specials. The result was of little importance in retrospect - football won that day. It left a lot of fans with the memory of a truly outstanding young footballer who performed in a truly outstanding young team. His last appearance for United was on February 5th 1958 in the Army Stadium in Belgrade in the 3-3 draw with Red Star, and again, it was fitting that he gave another outstanding performance. On a treacherous pitch, he floated and glided over it with grace and power. In the second half, when United's defence was on the rack, he tackled like a demon and marshalled everybody superbly, again he was the outstanding player on the pitch.

Duncan was very reserved off the field, almost to the point where he was shy, and retiring. He just lived for football and would have played everyday if he had been allowed. Oh! yes, he knew that he was gifted, and he knew that he was special - but it never put an edge upon him. He didn't feel any different from his team mates. For his age he was so mature, nobody took liberties with him. Bill Foulkes recalls a tale from a game against West Brom in 1957. Maurice Setters (who was later to join United) was a really tough, abrasive, intimidating in your face, wing half. Early on in the game, he made the mistake of trying to intimidate Duncan by standing nose to nose with him as Duncan tried to take a throw-in. Duncan just looked down at this craggy crew-cutted man - there was a slight movement of Duncan's chest, and Setters went back 10 yards on his backside. It was as though he had just swatted a fly. Setters was nowhere to be seen after that. How many players have played for England at senior level one week, and their club's youth team the next? He did. How many players have played for the youth team in the morning, and the first team in the afternoon? He did. He was never in the media for the wrong reasons, and in fact the only time that he ever got into trouble was one Saturday evening after a "derby" game at Old Trafford in 1955. City had trounced United 5-0, and as usual, Duncan was on his way home on his bike. An overzealous policeman stopped him in on Chester Road, and booked him for riding a bicycle without lights. On the Monday morning he was fined 10 shillings in the Magistrate's Court, and upon arriving at Old Trafford, Sir Matt fined him two weeks wages for bringing the club?s name into disrepute! He lived his life as the professional should. He conducted himself impeccably, looked after his body, and just loved the club that he played for. He was an icon to young boys like me, and without doubt was the perfect role model.

He survived for almost 15 days after the tragedy. He fought, my how he fought to live. His injuries were so severe though, especially to his kidneys. Dr. Georg Maurer the eminent doctor and surgeon at the Rechts der Isar Hospital in Munich, where all the injured were taken and treated, said that any less mortal than Duncan could never have survived those injuries for as long as he did. His fitness, stamina and courage, were unquestioned. In the first few days after the tragedy, when Jimmy Murphy visited him as he lay there fighting for his life, his first words to Jimmy were; 'what time's the kick off against Wolves on Saturday Jimmy? I can't miss that one'. It must have broken Jimmy's heart to see his big champion lying broken and battered as he was. There was a very, very close bond between those two men. Jimmy tells a few stories about Duncan against himself. In an England v Wales game at Ninian Park in Cardiff, Jimmy as the Wales team manager was in the dressing room just prior to the game. One by one he was giving players their instructions on how to combat the England players. When he had finished, Reg Davies, the Newcastle United centre forward piped up; 'but Boss, you haven't mentioned this here fellow Edwards - what do we do about him? How do you want us to play him?' Jimmy looked Reg straight in the eye and said; 'stay out of his way son, stay out of his way. If you don't, you'll get hurt'. During the second half of that game, with England leading 4-0, Duncan had to collect the ball from close by the dugout so that he could take a throw in. Seeing Jimmy in there he looked up and said; 'hey Jimmy, what time's the next train back to Manchester? You're wasting you?re time here!' Jimmy exploded; 'wait till I get you back there on Monday young man - I might make you into a half decent player!' Yes, there was a special bond between them.

Not long before the tragedy, Duncan became engaged to a young lady named Molly. He also bought a car, even though he couldn't drive. Sunday mornings would see he and Molly outside his digs, busily polishing that car! It was his pride and joy. It must have been heartbreaking also for his parents, and young Molly, to listen to him as he lay in that hospital. He told his Mum; 'I've got better things to do than lie here Mum. We?ve got an important game on Saturday'. She reminded him that he also had a car waiting at home for him, an he just replied; 'keep it on the road Mum, keep it on the road'. At 1:18a.m. on the morning of February 21st 1958, this giant of a young man succumbed to those terrible injuries which he had received in the tragedy of two weeks before. When the news broke in the City of Manchester later that morning, once again a great pall of mourning enveloped the people.
My memories of him never dim. I can still see him today as he comes bounding out from the tunnel, taking those giant leaps into the air, heading an imaginary ball. Standing there in the middle of the pitch expanding his chest and shouting to his team mates in that thick Black Country accent; 'come on lads, we 'aven't come here for nuffink!' He was special alright - in some ways he was a freak, and I say that in the nicest possible way. He was the perfect human being, the perfect footballer with the perfect technique, temperament, the one player that I have seen that really did have everything and could play anywhere and still be the most outstanding player on the field. People often ask me today as to who would compare with him. Well, the honest answer is, I haven't seen anybody come near to him. To try and explain I tell them, take a little bit of Bobby Moore, a little bit of Bryan Robson, a little bit of Roy Keane, and a little bit of Patrick Viera - mix them together, and maybe, just maybe, you may just get a little bit of Duncan Edwards. Have a look at the websites www.duncan-edwards.co.uk and www.munich58.co.uk and read the various newspaper reports and testimonials about him - it will give you an idea of just how gifted this young man was. There was a famous athlete years ago who used to proclaim 'I am the greatest, I am the greatest.' Well, unfortunately I have news for him, even he got it wrong. You see, "the greatest" was a young 21 years old wing half, who played for Manchester United and England, and in my opinion, was the most complete player the game of football has ever witnessed. Dear Dunc, I say it so often, the years roll by, but your memory never dims and your legend will live on forever.

marcotarcitano
15 Mar 2007, 05:31 PM
I have found a video of Duncan Edwards on google video. Too bad there is nothing more available. However if Sir Charlton (one of the greatest) says so, it must be true, it is unfortunate that his career was so short. On my end I would love to be able to see someone come along on my lifetime and rob Pele of his trone. Romario is trying really hard to get at 1000 goals and Pele made to that number and retired on his prime. I do not care what country his from it would be nice to see it. This kid from England Theo shows promisse. We will see.

Peanuts
17 Mar 2007, 01:35 AM
Pelé

Maradona scores with his hand.

Teso Dos Bichos
17 Mar 2007, 01:40 AM
Thanks for that wonderful contribution.

|PAtrick|
17 Mar 2007, 12:09 PM
Pelé

Maradona scores with his hand.

jajajjaaajajajaj.. you said that because he scored "La Mano de Dios" versus England.

And you don't remember the sencond goal¿? The Best goal of the history of WC.

Peanuts
17 Mar 2007, 12:43 PM
jajajjaaajajajaj.. you said that because he scored "La Mano de Dios" versus England.

And you don't remember the sencond goal¿? The Best goal of the history of WC.

You are right.. I am still bitter about that. Actually, the first goal has got to be the best goal in the history of the World Cup since most players these days try to duplicate it.

TKORL
18 Mar 2007, 10:26 PM
This is just my opinion, but if you look at the videos of the 1970 Brazil team, I know of their reputation, but when you watch them play, they often seem to make small technical mistakes that I don't think today's best teams do. Honestly, I was not that impressed, they don't seem any better than say, Arsenal.


In addition, I think the difficulty of this debate is demonstrated by the fact that we cannot really compare by watching a game who is superior technically. If we were to have a debate about who is the most technically brilliant player in the world today, we would get a range of answers, thus comparing players across eras is impossible.