what is going on between Henry and Wenger....

[thierry14henry]

Take a look at this guys..........

Wenger puts Henry in his place


Yet rather than basking in his side's triumph, Wenger used his press conference to reveal his 'bust-up' with Henry may not have been blown out of proportion. 'I need to sit down with Thierry and let him know what we expect from him,' stated the Arsenal boss, clearly hinting that his captain is in danger of believing he is bigger than the club.

'If you are not fit to play in a game, then you have to prepare for that and this team is not just about one man. I have 20 good players here. We show spirit, character and determination against a good Tottenham team as we were under a lot of mental pressure going into this game. Scoring first was the key.

'It was Thierry's decision to stand on the touchline today and maybe it is too easy for the media to get comments from him at times. I am not happy or unhappy about his situation, but we need to have a meeting to resolve everything.'

The injection of confidence they will gain from this emphatic victory may just spark Arsenal into life and those looking to unsettle Wenger's harmony with lurid back-page headlines will have to keep their ink dry for a while yet.

Yet Wenger's apparent confession that Henry's antics of the last 24 hours have upset his normally placid demeanour will create plenty of headlines.

This is the link.......... http://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns/story?id=394370&root=england&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab1pos1&cc=5901





Wenger's comment really astonished me .... Personally ,I 've never seen our boss having any personal attack on our players, let alone our talisman captain....................

[pookspur]

let me just say, as a holder of graduate degrees in history and political science*, who is intimately familiar with the nature of political power struggles at the top, arsene wenger is one shrewd mother********er.

he has used his team's performance - without henry - to marginalize henry's air of indispensability (read: power) both within the team and, now, publicly. henry's options regarding his response to wenger's assertions are now severely limited.

in retrospect, we shouldn't be surprised that the manner in which henry was re-signed would facilitate - wholly organically - the undermining of wenger's power as the head of the club (or at least, team). i'm not suggesting that there's anything malicious or diabolical behind henry's ascention to a competitive position of power, but unless he was superhumanly humble (which he apparently is not), it was bound to happen, given the circumstances.

wenger knows exactly what he's doing.



*not that this is impresive in any way; but it's rare, indeed, that i ever even get a reason to incorporate the fact into any semblance of pertinence.

[fox point fury]

let me just say, as a holder of graduate degrees in history and political science*,

No wonder you're always so diplomatic when you post here!

[Cannon]

No wonder you're always so diplomatic when you post here!
Oh...I thought you were going to say that only a historian could find a reason to support Spurs.
60/61....hmm, how old were my parents then? ;) :D

[pookspur]

let me just say, as a holder of graduate degrees in history and political science, ...

No wonder you can't get a proper job!

fixed your post.

seriously, though, when thierry14henry says "wenger put henry in his place", he's hit the nail on the head. if this was just about motivating henry, it wouldn't have begun at a press conference. it would have started and ended behind closed doors, in the 'meeting' that wenger is now telling the world is about to take place.

if wenger feels - like so many here - that henry isn't the best-suited player on the squad to captain this team, i'd look for him to make a change in the next few days.

[DallasGooner]

Did anyone see these comments? Video anyone?

[antifan]

Wenger's comment really astonished me .... Personally ,I 've never seen our boss having any personal attack on our players, let alone our talisman captain....................

I don't consider Wenger's comments as any kind of personal attack. And i don't think he's playing mind games. He's simply stating his feelings on the situation. Henry is a veteran player and the captain of the team, he needs to show more composure and maturity. When the boss tells you you're not playing in a big game, don't throw a hissy fit and storm out of the training ground. And don't go whining to the media about the club and how the young players aren't getting it done. I don't think Wenger appreciated Henry's suggestions on buying in January either. But on the other hand i admire that Henry wants to play despite not being fit, and he wants to play in big games. But he needs to realize that its Wenger that calls the shots.

[pookspur]

... he needs to realize that its Wenger that calls the shots.

there you have it.

but it's more than just henry. everyone at arsenal needs to know it - including wenger. and if you've got the situation (if!) where wenger is thinking - like everyone else - that his team would be better off with a different captain, who's decision is that to make? well, obviously it's wenger's. so if he's saying to himself (like alot of others are out loud), "i'd like to give the armband to ______, but how will henry react?", then he's got to be asking another question when he looks in the mirror - namely, "who's in charge here?" it's not difficult to envision henry's interjection regarding the transfer market sending up a red flag with the boss; and as anti has suggested, such 'contributions' cannot have been appreciated, regardless. face it, if you spend all spring saying "we'll do anything to keep you", it's hardly a surprise that, somewhere down the line, "anything" needs some definition.

now, i will gladly concede that the stuff about the captaincy is pure speculation on my part. but i agree that 'who calls the shots' is definitely what it's all about. and the fact that this is happening publicly suggests (to my fevered imagination, anyway) that there's more to the issue than just some kind of misunderstanding that needs clarifying. that would be much better addressed behind closed doors. i think wenger knows that this is a matter with great potential for real conflict, and he's playing his cards in a calculated manner. no insult, that.



could be wrong, of course. so unless anyone would like a dissertation on methodologies for the purging and/or limiting of ascending potential competitors within autocracies (and you don't), i'll stop now.

[antifan]

there you have it.

but it's more than just henry. everyone at arsenal needs to know it - including wenger. and if you've got the situation (if!) where wenger is thinking - like everyone else - that his team would be better off with a different captain, who's decision is that to make? well, obviously it's wenger's. so if he's saying to himself (like alot of others are out loud), "i'd like to give the armband to ______, but how will henry react?", then he's got to be asking another question when he looks in the mirror - namely, "who's in charge here?" it's not difficult to envision henry's interjection regarding the transfer market sending up a red flag with the boss; and as anti has suggested, such 'contributions' cannot have been appreciated, regardless. face it, if you spend all spring saying "we'll do anything to keep you", it's hardly a surprise that, somewhere down the line, "anything" needs some definition.

now, i will gladly concede that the stuff about the captaincy is pure speculation on my part. but i agree that 'who calls the shots' is definitely what it's all about. and the fact that this is happening publicly suggests (to my fevered imagination, anyway) that there's more to the issue than just some kind of misunderstanding that needs clarifying. that would be much better addressed behind closed doors. i think wenger knows that this is a matter with great potential for real conflict, and he's playing his cards in a calculated manner. no insult, that.



could be wrong, of course. so unless anyone would like a dissertation on methodologies for the purging and/or limiting of ascending potential competitors within autocracies (and you don't), i'll stop now.

I agree with most of what you're saying (because you agree with me). But i don't see this as a long term source of conflict. In his heart, Henry is a team player, the conflict has come from him desperately wanting to perform when he's physically not able to. I think he already realizes that Wenger was right to bench him. And he will also come to realize that the club can't rely on him only as it has in the past. I'm hoping he will take a little time off and come back 100%, both physically and mentally. I feel he is taking too much responsibilty onto himself, and he's frustrated that he's not living up to his own expectations. I think that he and Wenger speak the same language (both literally and figuratively) and any conflict will be settled in a reasonable manner.

Edit: Here is the Guardian's take on the subject. Some interesting quotes from both parties.
http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_Story/0,,1962781,00.html

[giantroo]

None of it is true. Its all rumour.


http://www.arsenal.com/article.asp?thisNav=News&article=432713&lid=NewsHeadline&Title=Henry+-+I+am+only+upset+because+I+can%27t+play

[giantroo]

Here it is:


Henry - I am only upset because I can't play
Thierry Henry has responded to media reports this morning that suggested he was unhappy to be left out of the squad for Saturday's North London derby. Here is a transcript of what the Arsenal captain had to say.


On those media reports...

“To be honest that’s one thing I wanted to clear up. Obviously you’ve seen what was said in a newspapers but nothing that has been said in the paper is true. I was actually upset because I know I’m going to miss games for Arsenal. That includes Tottenham and maybe more. That’s why I was upset and why I left the training ground yesterday. But nothing that has been said in the paper is true and it’s a bit of a shame that all the time you have to come out and justify stuff in this country. It’s a bit of a shame but never mind."

On his emotions at missing the game...

“Everyone knows how much I love to play against Tottenham. That’s why I was a little bit upset and I still am. You just have to look at the way I celebrated the goal last season and the way I always celebrate when I score against them. The game is something special and missing the first one at Emirates it can never be done again. I’m confident in the team. We’ve been going through some bad moments throughout the last few weeks but I think we can get through that and I think Tottenham is the right team at the right time to bounce back.”

On his mood as he left training ground on Friday?

“I did leave the training ground disappointed but I had already done my treatment. I left upset because I wanted to play against Spurs. Nobody forced me to not play. It was a discussion that we had and I was upset becuase I don’t like to not play. I want to be on the pitch. But sometimes you have to be honest with yourself and listen to your body.

“No one actually knows what we said to each other and still they are speculating. I received a call saying that they were going to run a story saying I was in France sulking. I have been at the ground since 9.30am. I don’t know if your ever watched Star Trek but I don't have the power to teleport myself.

“What is the problem if I am upset not playing against Spurs and that I can’t help my team-mates at the moment? Yes that was something to do with the way I left the ground but that is not a bad reason.”

On the suffering injuries as he gets older?

“I don’t know if you remember last season I was injured for a month or even two months. And the season before I did not play for the last eight games and missed the FA Cup Final. There are 38 games, national team games and going a long way in the Champions League - somewhere a long the line you are going to have to miss out.

“That is why I was upset yesterday and nothing else. It is because I want to help the team. But need to listen to my body and have a rest. It is difficult to take but that is the way it is.”

[Rewinder]

Baptista is upset because he can't play too (http://home.skysports.com/list.aspx?hlid=432791&CPID=8&clid=3&lid=2&title=Baptista+unhappy+with+role)

[Cannon]

Baptista is upset because he can't play too (http://home.skysports.com/list.aspx?hlid=432791&CPID=8&clid=3&lid=2&title=Baptista+unhappy+with+role)
Funny time to complain. He's bound to get a bunch of time this month.

[Blue'N'Gooner redded]

What Henry needs to realise is that times are changing at Arsenal, they have moved to a new Stadium and are building a team for the new era. Henry is 28 and he'll be 32 when his contract runs out so he isn't known as the future of Arsenal Football Club anymore. When he was 24-27 he was at 'the man' at Arsenal he was the man at his best, everything he touched turn to gold, he was 'Arsenal'. But those days are over, the system that was built around him, fast-paced, fluid one-touch football, interchange, give and go etc is changing to a another system that will not suit him and he'll have to get used to it.

Arsenal FC is not being built around him anymore it's being built around Cesc Fabregas, Cesc is the future to be 'the man' of Arsenal. Soon the system Henry's used too will be no more and it will be changed to a more technical, slow paced, tactical, stragetic, possession game that will suit Fabregas because that's what Fabregas is all about. Fabregas is one of two thing's to Henry's downfall one of them is that the Club left Highbury, Henry was so 'at home' at Highbury. Everytime he touched the ball eveyone from the Clock End to the other side of the Stadium stand up on thier feets because they know he'll do something exciting or magical. But at the Emirates it's not like that, everyone sit on thier hands and wait to see if someone like Rosicky or Fabregas make one of thier darting runs into the box or Cesc do one of his 'eye of the needle' throw balls into the box.

Second reason is Cesc staying at Arsenal insted of going to Real Madrid, if Cesc had gone then Henry would have still be the centre of attention and Theo Walcott wouldn't have been brought by Arsenal from Southampton(Obviously Theo Walcott has been brought in to be Henry's long term successor), but the touch has been passed on to Cesc Fabregas now and now the closest person to replacing Dennis Bergkamp.

[ibby]

What Henry needs to realise is that times are changing at Arsenal, they have moved to a new Stadium and are building a team for the new era. Henry is 28 and he'll be 32 when his contract runs out so he isn't known as the future of Arsenal Football Club anymore. When he was 24-27 he was at 'the man' at Arsenal he was the man at his best, everything he touched turn to gold, he was 'Arsenal'. But those days are over, the system that was built around him, fast-paced, fluid one-touch football, interchange, give and go etc is changing to a another system that will not suit him and he'll have to get used to it.

Arsenal FC is not being built around him anymore it's being built around Cesc Fabregas, Cesc is the future to be 'the man' of Arsenal. Soon the system Henry's used too will be no more and it will be changed to a more technical, slow paced, tactical, stragetic, possession game that will suit Fabregas because that's what Fabregas is all about. Fabregas is one of two thing's to Henry's downfall one of them is that the Club left Highbury, Henry was so 'at home' at Highbury. Everytime he touched the ball eveyone from the Clock End to the other side of the Stadium stand up on thier feets because they know he'll do something exciting or magical. But at the Emirates it's not like that, everyone sit on thier hands and wait to see if someone like Rosicky or Fabregas make one of thier darting runs into the box or Cesc do one of his 'eye of the needle' throw balls into the box.

Second reason is Cesc staying at Arsenal insted of going to Real Madrid, if Cesc had gone then Henry would have still be the centre of attention and Theo Walcott wouldn't have been brought by Arsenal from Southampton(Obviously Theo Walcott has been brought in to be Henry's long term successor), but the touch has been passed on to Cesc Fabregas now and now the closest person to replacing Dennis Bergkamp.

Excellent point, although as long as Wenger is manager of the Arsenal he will always keep a high tempo game, its Arsenal's style, although I agree with you, Arsene Wenger is trying to rebuild the same team he had in the 03/04 season by buying players that are natural replacements for the players that have left,Walcott, Diaby, Van Persie, Rosicky etc.

What Henry needs is a Bergkamp type player, a player that can feed him the ball, although Cesc Fabregas does that he plays too deep for Henry. Van Persie on the other hand can be that, as I have noticed in the last few games he is being less and less greedy.

[KevTheGooner]

All I know is this little row has given me a new sig line.

[Scally]

But those days are over, the system that was built around him, fast-paced, fluid one-touch football, interchange, give and go etc is changing to a another system that will not suit him and he'll have to get used to it.

Arsenal FC is not being built around him anymore it's being built around Cesc Fabregas, Cesc is the future to be 'the man' of Arsenal. Soon the system Henry's used too will be no more and it will be changed to a more technical, slow paced, tactical, stragetic, possession game that will suit Fabregas because that's what Fabregas is all about.

I think the first paragraph is very unfair to Pires, Reyes and Ljungberg in his quicker days. Arsenals system of quick one touch play has changed slightly, more because of Pires and Reyes' departure and Freddy loosing a step (and to a certain extent Cole leaving) than Cesc being the 'man' of Arsenal. The players that were brought in to replace Reyes and Pires are also suited to a quick passing game but they just dont run at players like the former players mentioned used to.

Its not JUST down to Cesc that we changed our style (its more to do with new players and change of formation) and to say so is very one minded and disapointing from an Arsenal/Chelsea supporter.

[G8TR_Gooner]

A few random thoughts:

We all sat around on pins and needles to see if Henry would resign with Arsenal (including Wenger). He signs for 4 years we ALL breath a sigh of relief and now all of sudden he's bordering on an after thought and a very talented, smallish midfielder (who's shooting could use a lot of work)is the future of AFC? Right now we can't replace Henry's offensive production PERIOD so let's not even try to marginalize his contributions. Ask yourselves this simple question:

Did we sign Thierry just to bridge the gap between our last great team and the next one?

1) I don't approve of a captain, any captain for that matter, speaking out to the press about who he wants to sign, etc.. If Henry has thoughts on the matter he should discuss them with Wenger privately and not create fodder for the Sun and Mirror. AW deserves that much respect and he ought to be willing to listen to his captain.

2) None of us know what sort of "guarantees" Wenger made, or did not make, with Henry when he re-signed with the club with regards to strengthening the club. Maybe this is where the rub lies. I think most of us can rationally see that while we do have some very promising young talent, at the moment we lack the maturity and steel to produce the kind of consistent performances that win the EPL. That means year one of his 4 year deal yields potenially no silverware (sorry we're not winning the CL this year and at best we might be able to sneak a grab at the FA Cup).. I don't blame him if he's wondering where the next championship is coming from.

[billyho96]

We really can't let this guy post anymore can we? You can't support Arsenal and Chelsea. Not even Patrick does that openly;)

What Henry needs to realise is that times are changing at Arsenal, they have moved to a new Stadium and are building a team for the new era. Henry is 28 and he'll be 32 when his contract runs out so he isn't known as the future of Arsenal Football Club anymore. When he was 24-27 he was at 'the man' at Arsenal he was the man at his best, everything he touched turn to gold, he was 'Arsenal'. But those days are over, the system that was built around him, fast-paced, fluid one-touch football, interchange, give and go etc is changing to a another system that will not suit him and he'll have to get used to it.

Arsenal FC is not being built around him anymore it's being built around Cesc Fabregas, Cesc is the future to be 'the man' of Arsenal. Soon the system Henry's used too will be no more and it will be changed to a more technical, slow paced, tactical, stragetic, possession game that will suit Fabregas because that's what Fabregas is all about. Fabregas is one of two thing's to Henry's downfall one of them is that the Club left Highbury, Henry was so 'at home' at Highbury. Everytime he touched the ball eveyone from the Clock End to the other side of the Stadium stand up on thier feets because they know he'll do something exciting or magical. But at the Emirates it's not like that, everyone sit on thier hands and wait to see if someone like Rosicky or Fabregas make one of thier darting runs into the box or Cesc do one of his 'eye of the needle' throw balls into the box.

Second reason is Cesc staying at Arsenal insted of going to Real Madrid, if Cesc had gone then Henry would have still be the centre of attention and Theo Walcott wouldn't have been brought by Arsenal from Southampton(Obviously Theo Walcott has been brought in to be Henry's long term successor), but the touch has been passed on to Cesc Fabregas now and now the closest person to replacing Dennis Bergkamp.

[ibby]

Agreed I find it hard to Support Chelsea & Arsenal but some of his posts have made some sense :D