Cleveland #14???

[Eleven Bravo]

saw this in the Cleveland forum: http://bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=444178

So, i guess there are really only two slots until after 2010. Now i didn't want to post this in the Cleveland forum because that would be "trolling" but i really don't think a MLS team in Cleveland is a good idea (good for USL though). I just see the Ohio market becoming swamped (like Florida was) and MLS continuing to not expand to all their fan base (SE and NW). Overall, it looks like a nice stadium and congratulations to Cleveland fans...but i can't say i'm not a little upset about this.

[BigKahuna]

saw this in the Cleveland forum: http://bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=444178

So, i guess there are really only two slots until after 2010. Now i didn't want to post this in the Cleveland forum because that would be "trolling" but i really don't think a MLS team in Cleveland is a good idea (good for USL though). I just see the Ohio market becoming swamped (like Florida was) and MLS continuing to not expand to all their fan base (SE and NW). Overall, it looks like a nice stadium and congratulations to Cleveland fans...but i can't say i'm not a little upset about this.

Totally agree....why should Ohio have 2 teams when the entire Pac Northwest and the Southeast have ZERO? I'm upset because it looks as if any city with an owner and a stadium will get an expansion team...thats just wrong. While those things should be requisite, there are many other important factors that should be considered.

Like you said, I think this would canabalize the Crew fan base, saturate the market, and prevent the league from increasing its footprint as much as it could if the team were put in Atlanta or Seattle.

Either way, it appears to me that there is going to be a race to get a team before we reach 18 or 20. If its 20, I like Atlanta's chances, but if its 18, we may be out of luck unless we make something happen soon.

[MPoole]

An interesting article definatly, but I will not be giving up hope yet. If you noticed in the article they never mentioned the MLS's opinion. It sited the City of Cleveland, the Ohio Youth Soccer Organization (I can't remember what they were called), and the Company looking to get the MLS franchise, but not once did it mention the support of the MLS. I think that this may have been more of a play to get support behind their cause.

Garber said that there were a lot more interested cities than they were interested in bringing on at this point, so that would make me think that they may be one of the cities who was passed up by the MLS, and now they are trying to show that they have the fan base to support a team.

On the other hand, I could be totally wrong and the MLS is just waiting until Monday to make their announcement. ;)

If so, congratulations Cleveland. I just hope that Atlanta is next.

[MPoole]

I looked through again to make sure that I was not missing something, and I noticed an odd thing about the articles. It is not trying to convince the MLS to support a team, the whole website and both articles are trying to get enough public support to leverage the local government into pitching in funds. That tells me that they are just in the preliminary stages and that we shouldn't really be looking for an official MLS announcement any time soon. It makes me wonder how far along our two potential investors are. While these guys in Cleveland seem to be of the opinion that giving out information will drum up support, our investors seem to be of the opinion that they should only release what information is absolutely necessary. Another thread mentioned that Herndon Stadium is not a potential space for an Atlanta MLS team. In my opinion, that means that they have already selected a spot for the stadium and therefore can rule out Herndon. I just keep hoping that we are days away from the next MLS team announcement. Toronto FC wasn't announced far from this time last year...

[Eleven Bravo]

I looked through again to make sure that I was not missing something, and I noticed an odd thing about the articles. It is not trying to convince the MLS to support a team, the whole website and both articles are trying to get enough public support to leverage the local government into pitching in funds. That tells me that they are just in the preliminary stages and that we shouldn't really be looking for an official MLS announcement any time soon. It makes me wonder how far along our two potential investors are. While these guys in Cleveland seem to be of the opinion that giving out information will drum up support, our investors seem to be of the opinion that they should only release what information is absolutely necessary. Another thread mentioned that Herndon Stadium is not a potential space for an Atlanta MLS team. In my opinion, that means that they have already selected a spot for the stadium and therefore can rule out Herndon. I just keep hoping that we are days away from the next MLS team announcement. Toronto FC wasn't announced far from this time last year...

i tell you what though...i wouldn't mind having the SSS in the model for Cleveland. That's a beautiful design for a stadium.

[BigKahuna]

I looked through again to make sure that I was not missing something, and I noticed an odd thing about the articles. It is not trying to convince the MLS to support a team, the whole website and both articles are trying to get enough public support to leverage the local government into pitching in funds. That tells me that they are just in the preliminary stages and that we shouldn't really be looking for an official MLS announcement any time soon. It makes me wonder how far along our two potential investors are. While these guys in Cleveland seem to be of the opinion that giving out information will drum up support, our investors seem to be of the opinion that they should only release what information is absolutely necessary. Another thread mentioned that Herndon Stadium is not a potential space for an Atlanta MLS team. In my opinion, that means that they have already selected a spot for the stadium and therefore can rule out Herndon. I just keep hoping that we are days away from the next MLS team announcement. Toronto FC wasn't announced far from this time last year...

Soccer Prime informed me that the potential ownership group in Atlanta is currently exploring the possibility of a public/privately financed stadium in the Atlanta area. Thats all I know, though. After we organize, I plan on getting in touch with the guy who just happens to be a great friend of my girlfriend's boss.

[BulaJacket]

saw this in the Cleveland forum: http://bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=444178

So, i guess there are really only two slots until after 2010. Now i didn't want to post this in the Cleveland forum because that would be "trolling" but i really don't think a MLS team in Cleveland is a good idea (good for USL though). I just see the Ohio market becoming swamped (like Florida was) and MLS continuing to not expand to all their fan base (SE and NW). Overall, it looks like a nice stadium and congratulations to Cleveland fans...but i can't say i'm not a little upset about this.
I appreciate your thought process, and will rep you when it allows me again (tomorrow), even if I don't agree with your assertion. FYI, as for Cleveland, there is a disconnect with Columbus, and I doubt much of the Crew fanbase is there at all. In light of that fact, clear rivalry opportunity, and strength behind this proposal on many levels, I'm pretty confident this is a good idea.

Totally agree....why should Ohio have 2 teams when the entire Pac Northwest and the Southeast have ZERO? I'm upset because it looks as if any city with an owner and a stadium will get an expansion team...thats just wrong. While those things should be requisite, there are many other important factors that should be considered.

Like you said, I think this would canabalize the Crew fan base, saturate the market, and prevent the league from increasing its footprint as much as it could if the team were put in Atlanta or Seattle.

Either way, it appears to me that there is going to be a race to get a team before we reach 18 or 20. If its 20, I like Atlanta's chances, but if its 18, we may be out of luck unless we make something happen soon.
Umm, you do realize that there are 3 top 30 or so media markets in Ohio, just as in the WHOLE PacNW?
Of course there are prerequisites. No one else, outside of SJ and possibly STL shortly seems to have them right now. What should MLS do? Look at them and say no thanks? I admire your Atlanta loyalty BK, but your logic is completely insane to me. What would you do if you were an impartial MLS? I'm sure MLS looks at Philly, Miami, Atlanta, Portland, Seattle, Vancouver, & NYC #2 and thinks "I wish we had a suitable stadium and ownership scenario in all of these cities, because we'd be there ASAP." Hell, I do, and I'm not MLS. It's simple as that. Due to the country size and structure, MLS isn't going to stop at 16, so don't worry. Keep backing ATL, and eventually someone will step forward.

Atlanta will be in MLS eventually, and if not for anything else other than your sakes, I hope sometime relatively soon. I am a Thrasher and Silverback fan and have been to multiple games of each over there in GA (and used to like the Dale Murphy Braves before they got too good and got so many bandwaggoners), so I wouldn't mind visiting again to watch a MLS team there.

An interesting article definatly, but I will not be giving up hope yet. If you noticed in the article they never mentioned the MLS's opinion. It sited the City of Cleveland, the Ohio Youth Soccer Organization (I can't remember what they were called), and the Company looking to get the MLS franchise, but not once did it mention the support of the MLS. I think that this may have been more of a play to get support behind their cause.
Actually, the late Bart Wolstein signed a letter of intent a couple of years ago with MLS, and his son and company are continuing on. It is safe to say that MLS approves, wants, and even is helping behind the scenes maybe. It's actually not a play for support, just a public relase of info. They have been stealthy working on this for a couple years, buying property, getting needed things passed, and getting their general ducks in a row, so that when this point came, there would be very little interference to complete.
Here is a decent FYI if you're curious:
http://bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?p=10172869#post10172869

Garber said that there were a lot more interested cities than they were interested in bringing on at this point, so that would make me think that they may be one of the cities who was passed up by the MLS, and now they are trying to show that they have the fan base to support a team.

On the other hand, I could be totally wrong and the MLS is just waiting until Monday to make their announcement.
As I said, that first part isn't right, and the second part obviously wasn't ;) and isn't either. MLS hadn't passed up Cleveland at all. Their first rumblings were a couple of years ago, but MLS is waiting for the Cleveland group (WSEG) to make sure they have everything set and let them know. They had already signed that letter of intent before Bart died, they've been working on it since before then, and some of WSEG's employees have worked with MLS on various projects. Once they do, Cleveland pretty much has a guaranteed ticket into MLS. Personally, that is the part I'm least concerned about.

I looked through again to make sure that I was not missing something, and I noticed an odd thing about the articles. It is not trying to convince the MLS to support a team, the whole website and both articles are trying to get enough public support to leverage the local government into pitching in funds. That tells me that they are just in the preliminary stages and that we shouldn't really be looking for an official MLS announcement any time soon. It makes me wonder how far along our two potential investors are. While these guys in Cleveland seem to be of the opinion that giving out information will drum up support, our investors seem to be of the opinion that they should only release what information is absolutely necessary. Another thread mentioned that Herndon Stadium is not a potential space for an Atlanta MLS team. In my opinion, that means that they have already selected a spot for the stadium and therefore can rule out Herndon. I just keep hoping that we are days away from the next MLS team announcement. Toronto FC wasn't announced far from this time last year...
I already covered most of this, but the Wolstein's have been very slick in how they've moved about. I urge you to read the links in that FYI above if you're curious. While it's not a sure thing, they'd like to get as much public assistance possible, and that it won't go to a public vote due to the way they've went about it. The design has all the bells and whistles, so if they need to tone it down, they can. As WSEG has already purchased the land, and done extensive development work with suitors, I'd venture to say that if they go limited public funding, this would still be built, just without a few bells and whistles. As I said, they've been working on this for a long time, and are extremely far along. The Wolstein group is a development company that does this for a living, and wouldn't have released plans if they felt they weren't close. Those in our forum have waited on this for a couple years because they haven't given out any information since we first learned about their intentions. We've watched developments happen through the newspapers with barely a word from them, until now. If you've noticed, Cleveland's been mentioned in MLS' list for a few years running, but nothing had been ever released of this substance.


I hope this didn't rub you the wrong way; I just wanted to give information that you were speculating on. Keeping things tight looks like it may have worked in Cleveland, so hopefully that's what's going on there.

[BigKahuna]

Umm, you do realize that there are 3 top 30 or so media markets in Ohio, just as in the WHOLE PacNW?
Of course there are prerequisites. No one else, outside of SJ and possibly STL shortly seems to have them right now. What should MLS do? Look at them and say no thanks? I admire your Atlanta loyalty BK, but your logic is completely insane to me. What would you do if you were an impartial MLS? I'm sure MLS looks at Philly, Miami, Atlanta, Portland, Seattle, Vancouver, & NYC #2 and thinks "I wish we had a suitable stadium and ownership scenario in all of these cities, because we'd be there ASAP." Hell, I do, and I'm not MLS. It's simple as that. Due to the country size and structure, MLS isn't going to stop at 16, so don't worry. Keep backing ATL, and eventually someone will step forward.

Thanks for the post, but let me clarify. You said yourself that Clevelanders don't really associate with the Crew...fair enough. But thats exactly what I'm saying. The difference in the Southeast and Pac Norhwest is that, like you said, there are only a few cities that are top 30 markets: Atlanta and Seattle. So my contention is that a team in those markets will not just attract fans from within the city, but fans within the whole region. In Atlanta's case, this is definately nothing new. The Falcons and Braves, both have huge followings throughout the state and as far west as Mississippi. I think that soccer fans in Alabama and Tennessee would logically support an Atlanta team so I believe that MLS could increase its "footprint" many times more by strategically placing a team here as opposed to Cleveland where there is already a team a few hundred miles away.

But as you know, Atlanta doesn' meet the requirements for a team yet. I think I just get a little impatient and wish we had a team now (insert temper tantrum here)!!! The rendering for Clevelands looks absoluely amazing and I am really happy for the league. But I can't help but feel that each progressive step that Cleveland, Philly, St. Louis, Milwaukee, and SJ make towards getting a team decreases our chances of landing one.

[Net_Minder]

I know this has been brought up before. What would it take to expand Silverbacks Park? What would be suitable at least for the short term? The Herndon idea already has been run into the ground mainly by MLS reps and the Grant Field suggestion I threw around a few weeks ago sounds like it won't work either. Any news on the I/O front? Or is there any chance the Backs ownership group will consider expanding into the MLS?

[oldie]

http://www.atlantasilverbacks.com/pro/stadium.php

Here is the plan. The stadium will be expanded to 15,000 in Three to four years. Since we do not need that big a stadium for USL1, I believe that MLS may be in the future. If you notice, an upper deck could also be added to the East Stands.

[BigKahuna]

I know this has been brought up before. What would it take to expand Silverbacks Park? What would be suitable at least for the short term? The Herndon idea already has been run into the ground mainly by MLS reps and the Grant Field suggestion I threw around a few weeks ago sounds like it won't work either. Any news on the I/O front? Or is there any chance the Backs ownership group will consider expanding into the MLS?

Somewhere in this forum, I posted a summary of my conversation with Silverbacks' President Seven Pratten during which we talked about that very subject. At the time I wrote it, I was much more optimistic about the Backs making that move than I am now. Under this ownership, I don' see the Backs doing it....they have too many issues with MLS's single entity setup and loss sharing and all that stuff. Besides, I personally believe that the Backs will NEVER actually build the 15,000 seat stadium. I hink we can expect them to stop at 7.5k when they see that USL1 will never even sell that many tickets in Atlanta.

Heres the link I talked about:

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=355359

[Eleven Bravo]

http://www.atlantasilverbacks.com/pro/stadium.php

Here is the plan. The stadium will be expanded to 15,000 in Three to four years. Since we do not need that big a stadium for USL1, I believe that MLS may be in the future. If you notice, an upper deck could also be added to the East Stands.

I hope they redesign the SSS to make it where it can be 20,000 (isn't that the bare minimum for a MLS stadium?) and go with an upper deck on both sides than just one longer upper deck on one side.

ah! i'm happy either way. And i'd love it if the owners were just to come to an agreement with Jerkunica to bring the team up together.

[Eleven Bravo]

Somewhere in this forum, I posted a summary of my conversation with Silverbacks' President Seven Pratten during which we talked about that very subject. At the time I wrote it, I was much more optimistic about the Backs making that move than I am now. Under this ownership, I don' see the Backs doing it....they have too many issues with MLS's single entity setup and loss sharing and all that stuff. Besides, I personally believe that the Backs will NEVER actually build the 15,000 seat stadium. I hink we can expect them to stop at 7.5k when they see that USL1 will never even sell that many tickets in Atlanta.

Heres the link I talked about:

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=355359

I agree. 15,000 in Atlanta for USL is a little optimistic. 20,000 for MLS would be fine! but a lower level team of any sport is always going to struggle in Atlanta.

[Eleven Bravo]

good news for Atlanta fans. bad news for Cleveland fans. looks like their stadium deal fell through.

http://bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=452965

I will say this though, i'm glad to see Cleveland get into the USL. Hopefully, they'll one day make the jump to USL1.

[ChiCleveSoccer]

good news for Atlanta fans. bad news for Cleveland fans. looks like their stadium deal fell through.

http://bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=452965

I will say this though, i'm glad to see Cleveland get into the USL. Hopefully, they'll one day make the jump to USL1.

Thanks for the well wishes...hopefully one day both of these fine cities will be in MLS.