Mannheim Steamroller

[Sachsen]

I consider myself fairly knowledgeable, educated, and well-rounded when it comes to music. I won the classical music draft (http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=418256&highlight=draft), I play the piano and guitar, my music collection ranges from Bach to Beatles to Louis Armstrong to Hank Williams to Weezer to Pink Floyd to U2 to Uncle Tupelo to Glenn Gould to Alison Krauss. I think I've got a pretty good handle (Handel?) on what makes good music.

So why the hate towards Mannheim Steamroller?

I honestly can't figure it out. I rarely see anything good written about them. I can't tell if people really think they are no-talent hacks, or if they are just schlocky new-age types not worth listening to in an elevator. Because the former is patently and grotesquely untrue, and the latter is just shortsighted and uninformed.

I bet most people are only familiar with the Steamroller through one or two of their ever-present Christmas songs on the radio this time of year. 'Deck the Halls', 'Good King Wenceslaus', 'Joy to the World' -- all holiday staples... and all easily overplayed. But to you who have panned the group across the board, have you ever actually listened to a full album with an unbiased ear? Especially one of their non-Christmas albums?

In their early days in the 70s and early 80s, Mannheim Steamroller were issuing albums utterly unlike anything else you'd ever heard. Their music was a perfect synthesis between Renaissance/baroque instrumentation (harpsichord, lute, recorder, organ), the classical symphonic tradition (piano, violin, flute, oboe), and the ultra-modern (electric bass, electronic drum pads, synthesizers.) Their songs, especially on the first five Fresh Aire albums, were near-perfect examples of songcraft. To steal the title of the series, they were indeed fresh. It was new, organic, inviting, compelling. Their music was a brilliant recycling of the old into a jaded 20th century. A blast to play on the piano, incredibly imaginative, and a wonderful introduction to combinations of instruments and styles that no one had considered before. While Chip Davis is no virtuoso on the drums, his recorder playing is passionate and fun. Jackson Berkey is a seriously underrated keyboardist.

Re-consider the Steamroller.

To start out with, listen to the first five Fresh Aire albums, and (if you are so inclined) the first two Christmas albums.

Fresh Aire 6 is a mess.
Fresh Aire 7 has some interesting moments but is bloated and over-ambitious.
Fresh Aire 8 is weird.

The 3rd Christmas album is still very good but not as good as the first two.
The 4th is mostly forgettable other than one or two songs.

So as they've gotten older, their moments of brilliance have become fewer and far between. Honestly, I think Chip Davis has run out of musical ideas (as opposed to marketing ideas), which is OK with all he has accomplished and produced.

And by the way, I saw them live about 10-11 years ago and it was a FANTASTIC show.

So again, re-consider the Steamroller. Put on Fresh Aire 1, put yourself back in the middle of the '70s, and relax. You won't be disappointed.

[art]

My brother got me into them and I still have some of the Fresh Aire records but never liked any of the Christmas stuff. Basically I stopped listening to them when they started with the chrismas albums and Rush Limbaugh more or less adopted them; they became the music of old conservative people, much like Snapple became the drink of those same people for much the same reason. Nowadays they've become nothing but a product; you can get your Mannheim Steamroller Christmas CD at Wal-Mart while you're buying underwear and socks, it has about as much cultural relevance these days.

Basically I think it boils down to the fact that the Fresh Aire stuff's too new-agey for many people I think, and though the early Fresh Aire stuff is cool it's very dated by now. They never really achieved a "timeless" sound, did they, which has always been the problem with larglely electronic music. I agree Davis' arrangements are cool but they also are kind of gimmicky to my ears, relying on dated sounds, very conservative arrangement style and a pretty square sense of rhythm that makes everything sound relatively straight up and down (probably from Davis' country music roots) which doesent always work. To be honest I think most people who might listen to the early Fresh Aire records nowdays would probably not be blown away by them, they have a certain lack of emotional content and I dont know as that stuff really easily connects with anyone who's not a computer nerd or in his 40's.

I give them props for doing stuff with electronic music wayyy before anyone else though. I dont know how many of todays artist would admit it but I bet they've been relatively influential.

[Sachsen]

My brother got me into them and I still have some of the Fresh Aire records but never liked any of the Christmas stuff. Basically I stopped listening to them when they started with the chrismas albums and Rush Limbaugh more or less adopted them; they became the music of old conservative people, much like Snapple became the drink of those same people for much the same reason. Nowadays they've become nothing but a product; you can get your Mannheim Steamroller Christmas CD at Wal-Mart while you're buying underwear and socks, it has about as much cultural relevance these days.

Basically I think it boils down to the fact that the Fresh Aire stuff's too new-agey for many people I think, and though the early Fresh Aire stuff is cool it's very dated by now. They never really achieved a "timeless" sound, did they, which has always been the problem with larglely electronic music. I agree Davis' arrangements are cool but they also are kind of gimmicky to my ears, relying on dated sounds, very conservative arrangement style and a pretty square sense of rhythm that makes everything sound relatively straight up and down (probably from Davis' country music roots) which doesent always work. To be honest I think most people who might listen to the early Fresh Aire records nowdays would probably not be blown away by them, they have a certain lack of emotional content and I dont know as that stuff really easily connects with anyone who's not a computer nerd or in his 40's.

I give them props for doing stuff with electronic music wayyy before anyone else though. I dont know how many of todays artist would admit it but I bet they've been relatively influential.

See, your reply is what drives me nuts about standard criticisms of this band. The "electronic" aspect of Mannheim Steamroller is WAY overblown. In fact, the first four Fresh Aire albums are probably 80% NON-electronic. Chip Davis' whole thing was taking all these acoustic instruments (harpsichord, lute, piano, flute, recorder, violin, cello, oboe, classical guitar, percussion, etc. etc.) and mixing them together in a great, up-to-date sound, along with a smattering of electronica here and there. There are many, many songs that feature no electronic instruments at all.

And I totally disagree on the arrangements. They are very groundbreaking and original, not 'conservative.' And 'dated sounds'? Only if Renaissance rhythms and instrumentation are 'dated'.

I think people hearing the early Fresh Aire albums for the first time WOULD be blown away by them, if only they didn't know who they were listening to first. The problem with the massive popularity of the Christmas albums is they have turned Mannheim Steamroller's image into the Wal-Mart corporate image they have today, which is totally unlike what they originally were.

[MeridianFC]

You'll have to count me in the camp of folks that do not care for MS at all. Now logically it doesn't make any sense, I love rennaisance/baroque music, I'm not afraid of that type of electronic (Wendy/Walter Carlos, etc) and I definitely go big for some sketchy fusions from the 70s (Steeleye Span, Fairport Convention, Pentangle, etc.) but I think it is the fusion element that turns me off. For me anyway it's a case of the rock/progness ruins the classical and the classical dampens the rock/progness of it.

The person above who referred to the sound being dated, I agree, but not in the sense of the classical/rennaisance, they sound very much of the time they were recorded. Sometimes that's good but for MS it doesn't work for me. Some of the best solid sounding recordings come from the 70s and some of the worst.

I agree that MS are technically proficient, but I don't care so much about that. There does seem to be an emotional compoent lacking. If anything the music is too technical and cerebral for my tastes.

Sorry dude, the MS just ain't for me.

[Claymore]

My HS band teacher described them best: nerd music for music nerds.

Technically proficient yes, but just too fkcing clever to be "good".

[bmurphyfl]

So why the hate towards Mannheim Steamroller?

In general, I'm not a fan of classical music. But I do love Christmas music, so there is a chance I would like them. Having said that, my problem with them is "guilt by association". They seem to advertise their CDs regularly on conservative TV and radio programs. That makes me feel they support the political views of the program which I disagree with. Therefore, I'm turned off by them. It's probably not fair but it's an honest answer to your question.

[art]

In general, I'm not a fan of classical music. But I do love Christmas music, so there is a chance I would like them. Having said that, my problem with them is "guilt by association". They seem to advertise their CDs regularly on conservative TV and radio programs. That makes me feel they support the political views of the program which I disagree with. Therefore, I'm turned off by them. It's probably not fair but it's an honest answer to your question.

Totally agree, they have hitched their wagon pretty securely to conservative talk radio and went from being a pretty cool group with some interesting stuff to what amounts to a pandering commercial machine. My guess is most people who know them at all probably are at least somewhat influenced by this and it colors people's perception. Another reason why politics and music don't always mix, though it can work.

MS might have used mostly acoustic instruments but you have to admit the Fresh Aire records made pretty heavy use of elecronic elements, not as much as you would hear today, but pretty highly for their time, and use those elements in such a way that they become less an accompanying element and more a dominant sound.

To my ears and in my opinion.

[YanksFC]

I don't have any rational reason to support my dislike of their music. It's all just a matter of personal preference for me. I suppose that the MS stuff that I've heard just reminds me too much of prog rock, which I can't stand either.

I'm just thankful that they've never made a Chanukah album. Hearing a MS version of "Oh, Chanukah," "Maoz Tzur," or the Dreidel Song would be enough to send me on a homicidal rampage.

[Sachsen]

reminds me too much of prog rock, which I can't stand either.

:eek:

Gabriel-era Genesis? Rush? Yes? ELP? Friggin' Pink Floyd???

You sir, are banished from this forum.

[muskiesrock35]

i like them...

[bigredfutbol]

I'm from Nebraska. Chip Davis is from Omaha. MS were pretty big back home, back in the day. I believe they still do annual Christmas concerts. Or at least they used to.

So to answer you're question--I hate them because my parents loved them. :D

Actually, I don't have a strong opinion about them at all.

[NoodlesMacintosh]

:eek:

Gabriel-era Genesis? Rush? Yes? ELP? Friggin' Pink Floyd???

You sir, are banished from this forum.

To be fair to YanksFC, Rush sucks.

I'm okay with MS's Christmas stuff, although I don't like it enough to roll the dice with anything else they've done.

[TrooperBari]

I'm from Nebraska. Chip Davis is from Omaha. MS were pretty big back home, back in the day. I believe they still do annual Christmas concerts. Or at least they used to.

So to answer you're question--I hate them because my parents loved them. :D

Actually, I don't have a strong opinion about them at all.
AFAIK, they still play the Orpheum.

Another displaced Nebraskan here ... my folks were big into the Steamroller, too. I think Christmas '84 and Fresh Aire Christmas '88 are still lurking in the depths of my CD collection.