Why was Bora let go in 1997?

[John Jagou]

First of all, I like this sub-forum a lot. My respects to whoever(s) made it happen....

I wasn't as plugged in back in 97 as I am now, and I would like to know the official reason and the real reason why Bora was pink slipped before France 98. I personally thought he got a raw deal, but surely it wasn't because Mexico only managed a tie vs. the gringos in the azteca when all they needed was a tie to qualify for the cup. I appreciate any and all explanations.

[LMvCP]

more so than the results, the team was playing very bad. Without ideas... this weekend.. ill post up some articles

[John Jagou]

Thanks. I'll make sure to read them.

[Various Styles]

I would like to know the official reason and the real reason why Bora was pink slipped before France 98.

I do Not have the official reason but I can tell you my recollection of the events that lead to Bora getting sacked. The first hint at trouble was during the Copa America (97) tourney when Bora left many of the seasoned vets in favor for a younger team. The FA said if the MNT didnt make it past the first round Bora would be showned the door.

That tourney and squad gave us Luis Hernandez who would go on to be one of our heros in France 98. Also Adolfo Rios, who sadly was robbed of a WC spot by Lapuente who favored an out of form Campos.

After the Copa one of the Tv stations, I cant honestly remember which, had a anti Bora campaign. They would show a small section of the crowd with "Fuera Bora" signs and make it seem as if the whole stadium was against him.

I remember fondly assisting a friendly at the Los Angeles Coliseum, seeing a section of about 10 anti Bora fans and later that night in the TV sports show that section looked and sounded like half the stadium!

Maybe someone here remembers which TV station had this anti Bora campaign. Most of my football memories from 96-97 seem to have been replaced by episodes of Super Campeones, I would even go to the park and try Patada Hurracan en el Viento!

Also against Bora was Lapuente. At the time he was mr MFL with his Necaxa team and would constantly critique Bora and his playing style. Except we didnt have a Hugo-Lavolpe type rivalry because Bora is a classy guy and never played these mind games.

I know the 3-3 draw at Azteca against Costa Rica was the game used to sack Bora. If i recall correctly, in that match Costa Rica only had about five shots on goal all game. It didnt matter that the MNT had qualified, and had one of the best WCQ records in MNT history.

I also think there was a change in the FMF presidency which obviously meant that Bora no longer had the support of the board members. Lapuente was brought in and the rest is history.

I truly believe that had Bora remained at the helm that Mexico would of beaten Germany in the second round match up. It would of been his revenge for Mexico 86! but It was not meant to be.

[Perndog2006]

I do Not have the official reason but I can tell you my recollection of the events that lead to Bora getting sacked. The first hint at trouble was during the Copa America (97) tourney when Bora left many of the seasoned vets in favor for a younger team. The FA said if the MNT didnt make it past the first round Bora would be showned the door.

That tourney and squad gave us Luis Hernandez who would go on to be one of our heros in France 98. Also Adolfo Rios, who sadly was robbed of a WC spot by Lapuente who favored an out of form Campos.

After the Copa one of the Tv stations, I cant honestly remember which, had a anti Bora campaign. They would show a small section of the crowd with "Fuera Bora" signs and make it seem as if the whole stadium was against him.

I remember fondly assisting a friendly at the Los Angeles Coliseum, seeing a section of about 10 anti Bora fans and later that night in the TV sports show that section looked and sounded like half the stadium!

Maybe someone here remembers which TV station had this anti Bora campaign. Most of my football memories from 96-97 seem to have been replaced by episodes of Super Campeones, I would even go to the park and try Patada Hurracan en el Viento!

Also against Bora was Lapuente. At the time he was mr MFL with his Necaxa team and would constantly critique Bora and his playing style. Except we didnt have a Hugo-Lavolpe type rivalry because Bora is a classy guy and never played these mind games.

I know the 3-3 draw at Azteca against Costa Rica was the game used to sack Bora. If i recall correctly, in that match Costa Rica only had about five shots on goal all game. It didnt matter that the MNT had qualified, and had one of the best WCQ records in MNT history.

I also think there was a change in the FMF presidency which obviously meant that Bora no longer had the support of the board members. Lapuente was brought in and the rest is history.

I truly believe that had Bora remained at the helm that Mexico would of beaten Germany in the second round match up. It would of been his revenge for Mexico 86! but It was not meant to be.


I also remember that whole feud.. it use to piss me off as a kid, I saw that mexico had the best record in WCQ and he was still being booed.. lapuente just wanted to take away la seleccion de bora... but oh well.. asi son los cangrejos ..

[Various Styles]

lapuente just wanted to take away la seleccion de bora... but oh well.. asi son los cangrejos ..

This is true and it was very classless of him. :mad:

Sadly, no one turned on Lapuente the way people turned on Hugo and Hugo had valid reasons to attack Lavolpe since the Argie would pretty much set himeself up with his backhanded attacks on Mexican soccer.

[Perndog2006]

This is true and it was very classless of him. :mad:

Sadly, no one turned on Lapuente the way people turned on Hugo and Hugo had valid reasons to attack Lavolpe since the Argie would pretty much set himeself up with his backhanded attacks on Mexican soccer.


your right.. but 2 wrongs dont make it right.. in the end los malos siempre ganan in mexican futbol.. but ill still keep watching

[Perndog2006]

bora now will play against the MNT since now he is the new coach for the jamaica national team... what a revenge


http://www.fifa.com/en/news/interview/0,4323,126090-N,00.html

[CheveLoco]

Bora lost to Jamaica...and Mexico played like the central americans do when they come to Mexico..and that's very sad

and also lost to Honduras, tied Canada, tied USA at home, tied Costa Rica at home and tied Jamaica...plus the team just didnt have anything good tactically speaking..

sad...

[el mofles]

No real official reason just plenty of negatives against him. All the ones discussed so far are really the main reasons against him that led to his downfall.

In the end his philosophy of ugly, get the job done soccer was one that wasn't a right fit for Mexico anymore because Mexico had further evolved from those tatics since his first time in charge. Looking back at the results during his time one can validly conclude they were not bad at all, but then like the saying goes, number don't tell the whole story.

It seemed that Bora had the mentality that the caliber of Mexican players had not changed since his first time in charge. Like every other national team he has managed, He gave players specific roles to follow and they did, but at the expense of their creativity. In those WCQ it just seemed the players were being held back especially in away games. The team looked like it had no creative fire or guts and since when is Mexico team ever categorized as having no guts.

Then he was abrasive to media. He was evasive during the press conferences too. To begin with he mumbles his words, but then when he went on those evasive streaks it was frustrating for everyone and if I remember correctly he shut out the Mexican media during a team practice once or twice to further vilify himself. They had them longing for the days of Mejia-Baron

Then he was bit too realistic bordering on pessimist during those press conferences for the Mexican media's liking. He always tried to make the situation seem more difficult than it really was. Whether a coach has beforehand decided to play for tie is one thing, but unless Jamaica does anything significant in international play you don't want to hear your national team coach say he would be happy with a tie in Kingston, I mean this was a Jamaica that barely eked to the WC by way of a little hand from Mexico.

After Mexico II when he swooped in and took over that star-studded Nigeria team before WC 98, immediately he tried to bring people's expectations down to earth when he said he couldn't see himself winning anything with Peter Rufai in goal. That seemed to get everybody in a real flacid state real fast :cool:. Then he did the same thing when he qualified China, the Chinese people had visions of grandeur, but then good ole Bora comes out with the realistic expectation of being happy just to qualify out of the first round.

If I remember correctly it was TV Azteca doing their now trademark scandalized version of events when it came to fanning the "Fuera Bora!" flames with the chants and showing the signs in the stadium. I remember a few years ago recalling this stadium chanting incident after seeing it on the local LA newscast. I thought I heard they said it was Televisa but one of the Bigsoccer posters remembered without a doubt it was TV Azteca, I think it was rdl. This seemed sort of strange since I remember in the beginning TV Azteca was siding with Bora, but somewhere along the way they must of switched sides.

[LMvCP]

this is from the book "FRANCIA, UNA NUEVA ILUSION" by David Leah. Leah is a photographer, but in the book he got Jose Ramon Fernandez, Fernando Schwartz, Raul Orvananos, Andre Marin, Roberto Gomez Junco, and German Dehesa to collaborate. They provided articles about the team heading into France 98.

I am going to copy some stuff they had to say about Bora.

Hear is what Roberto Gomez Junco had to say: "No es solo que Bora Milutinovic no haya dejado nada hecho; el problema es que dejo muchas cosas muy mal hechas.

Sostenido hasta el cansancio mas por responder a intereses particulares que por beneficio de la escuadra nacional. Bora represento y enarbolo un patetico retroceso en la historia deuna Seleccion Mexicana que en sus anteriores actuaciones habia avanzado a pasos agigantados en lo que se refiere a mentalidad.

Un equipo que bajo la direccion de Menotti o de Mejia Baron jugaba bien o mal pero siempre jugaba a ganar, bajo la "direccion" del buen Velibor retorno inexorablemente a la mentalidad ratonera de antan~o."


This is what Andres Marin had to say: " Con Bora Mexico hizo historia, una historianada nada agradable. Contrariamente a los estados financieros y numericos que pregono, por vez primera la debil seleccion de San Vincente logro anotarnos un gol. Por vez primera la antes desconocida Jamaica nos vencio, al igual que Honduras. El retroceso era evidente y el cese de Bora era inevitable."

In another article by Marin, he said the following, "...pues mas entrenador, era un publirrelacionista excepcional, alguien que trataba de quedar bien con todos: veleidoso y hipocrita. Cuando ingreso como entrenador de la seleccion sucedio algo muy curioso que hoy- parece acontecer con Lapuente: Bora aposto por los jovenes; los resultados no fueron favorables, por lo que llamo a jugadores como Hermosillo simplemente para asegurar su "chamba".

[Perndog2006]

Mods Note : Not N&A Material

[guado]

Mods Note : keep the Chat sessions out of the N&A forum.

[Perndog2006]

you must really like to selectively read then.

man I followed that story as much as I could when It was unfolding.. I remember staying up late watching titulares deportivos when I was a kid and hearing the guyz there saying how bora has the best record for WC qualifying and still he got kicked out.. all cuz a mexican coach called lapuente was clamoring for the MNT coach job.. sounds like deja vu doesnt it..

[guado]

Mods Note : Not N&A Material

[Perndog2006]

Mods Note : Not N&A Material

[LMvCP]

so it wasnt because he lacked performance. it was because he just didnt get along with the right people.. figures.. pinches cangrejos hijos de su ******** madre... wtf...

no, its because the team was not doing anything. They were not playing well. They lost to Honduras and Jamaica during the WCQ phase

[Perndog2006]

no, its because the team was not doing anything. They were not playing well. They lost to Honduras and Jamaica during the WCQ phase

so having the best WC qualifying record is nothing.. nice!

[LMvCP]

so having the best WC qualifying record is nothing.. nice!

its obvious you dont remember watching the team play. I did not watch every one of their games (considering the games werent as easily available as they are now), but enought to know that under Bora, Mexico was playing like crap.

And for the record, having the best record in CONCACAF isnt something to brag about.

I think the beginning of the end for Bora was the 4-0 thrashing that we got from Brazil. Although the game against Brazil was a friendly, it was not a friendly. Mexico lost 4-0 and we had 95% of our stars, they did not.

[Rafael Hernandez]

I think the beginning of the end for Bora was the 4-0 thrashing that we got from Brazil. Although the game against Brazil was a friendly, it was not a friendly. Mexico lost 4-0 and we had 95% of our stars, they did not.

Actually both teams had their stars. I think it was the start of the nike tour of Brazil and they had all thier stars, Ronaldo, Romario, Leonardo, Dunga, etc etc. Still outside of the Meza era, that was the worst game I had seen a Mexico team play besides the Lavolpe 4-0 loss to Brazil. If it wasn't for Adolfo Rios, we would have gotten 8 goals scored.