Heroes and Villains

[MtP07]

Heroes:

1. Roy Keane - I love him. My favorite football player ever. He was what made me become a United fan. I loved the way he played - with so much machismo, fire, energy, power, and intimidation. He had an amazing drive to win and be the best that he could be and lead others by example. He was the engine and driving force in the team. He was no angel, and I never once got mad at him for anything he did. Most of them (Haaland, Shearer, Vieira) got what they deserved anyways. Due to all of the red cards, bust-ups and so on, I think he is over-looked as being a great footballer. Great vision, passing ability, could score, great reader of the game, great captain, etc. My only regret about Keano is with the way he went out. As a fan I wish it could have been on better terms...it was one year ago tomorrow :( .

2. Sir Alex Ferguson - One of the best managers of all time. United wouldn't be what they are today without him. Rebuilt the club in the Busby fashion. I honestly cannot see how the 'Fergie Out' gang can say what they do about him.

3. Ole Gunnar Solksjaer - He's a fan favorite and there are so many reasons why. His smile after scoring says it all...he plays with a genuine love of the game. His will to come through all of the injuries and make it back attest to what a great man he is. Plus, the scored that goal.

Villains:

1. David Beckham - Captain England, never gave his all to United the way he did for England.

2. Dwight Yorke - Same as others have said.

3. Roy Carroll - Never liked him.

[Vermont Red]

As a short-term fan, I have not had the pleasure to see a player begin and end his United career. To a certain extent for me, the players are either heroes or others; not really any villains. Maybe I just need to follow the team longer to have a player really disappoint me.

1. SAF - For a new fan like me, Sir Alex Ferguson is the embodiment of Manchester United. (This may be blasphemy for longtime fans. I apologize.) I greatly admire his (near) absolute ruthlessness in making decisions for the team. (I say near because of his inexplicable faith in certain player, especially Richardson. Maybe I do have a villain after all.) Once Fergie decides that the team is better off without a player, that player is gone. Its a ruthlessness that I don't even have in video game football, as I always stick by players way too long. Its the ruthlessness that gives me faith in Fergie. He's not infallible, but I give him the benefit of the doubt. (Except with Richardson.)

2. Ryan Giggs - He scored my favorite (so far) goal for United when he levelled at Highbury. As with all great players, he is more than the sum of his individual skills. Other posters have covered the way that his game has evolved as certain physical gifts have waned so I won't bother. For me, it says so much about Giggs, and about what his teammates think about him, when you see how Saha reacted to that cross to the far post in the last game. It really looked like Saha was certain not only that Giggs would get to the ball, but that he would cut the ball back. Maybe I'm reading too much into it.

[Milliano]

I
Villians:
Roy Carroll, and
Barthez - Ok, so apparently I have a thing against keepers. These two make the list of villians because neither one of them seemed to give a damn about their performances. Barthez especially: bad, bad attitude and a waste of talent. Roy Carroll let me down so many times I can never begin to forgive him. If it didn’t make me so ill, I would look up his statistics and compare them to other recent united keepers, including Barthez.


At one point in 04-05, I would almost wonder if Carroll was intentionally playing poorly, as if he prefered to be on the bench or get transfered. He would make such poor mistakes and apparently act as if it was no big deal.

[Dark Savante]

http://images.imagefap.com/images/full/14/855/855650321.gif

[Val1]

Well, obviously, my list is going to be pretty limited, but I don't think anyone holds a candle to Ole. Class on and off the field, the most brilliant sub in Premiership history, and gets major props for his perseverence in coming back from his injury woes.

My opinion of Cantona won't make it past the censors.

[Father Ted]

Heroes:

1. Eric Cantona
My favourite Manchester United player. Ever. I started supporting United when I was a kid in the 70's. My first memory of them was the 1976 FA Cup Final (aka, The F-king Bobby Stokes final). I had a tough time as a kid especially with my older Liverpool supporting brother. Anyways.... Eric Cantona changed all that losing trend. He was the difference between coming 2nd or 3rd and actually winning the whole thing. He changed the suffering into joy.

2. Ryan Giggs
I remember watching his debut game, the skinny kid who everyone raved about. And he didnt let anyone down. 15 or so years later and he still had the hunger but now in a more leadership role. Just think about that. 15 years. Only the likes of Bobby Charlton have had that type of longevity.

3. Mark Hughes
The never-say-die man. Tough as nails. Never scored a cheap or flukey goal. He only scored spectacular goals. Also, came back to United after being as Barcelona. When British players move abroad to a Spanish or Italian club and then return to play in England, it is rare that they come back to the club where he started from. Sparky did that.

4. Bryan Robson
While surrounded by mediocrity for most of his days at United, fans could always count on Robbo giving nothing less than 100% all of the time. He carried the team on his shoulders for so long in the barren days of the 80's. Maybe thats why he dislocated his shoulder on numerous occasions. Also, he scored in my first ever live Manchester United game, against West Ham. It was a cold Friday night game in March 1985 in Upton Park, coming on as a sub after being out for a period from...you guessed it, a shoulder injury. We were behind and of course he scores, the game ended 2-2.

5. Roy Keane
I was delighted when Roy Keane joined us, he had the opportunity to learn from my other hero Robbo. He was a good student to say the least. He came into his own in the late 90's most notably dragging his team back into the CL Semi with Juventus when all had seemed lost so early on.

6. Ole Gunnar Solskjaer
Funnily enough, before this season Ole probably would not have made my list. I had always admired him but his return this season and the sheer happiness that he is playing with has elevated him to my elite group of heroes.

7. Lou Macari
I loved the little Scot. Always played with a bubbly enthuiasm. Plus he always seemed to score a good number of goals each year.

Villians:
1. Andy Cole
Yes I know a lot of people love Andy Cole but I find it very hard to forget his first sluggish years here.

2. Gary Birtles
He was supposed to do what he did for Notts Forest but was an absolute disaster.

3. Neil Webb
See Gary Birtles. Thankfully Keano stopped that trend of Forest flops.

4. Gordan McQueen
I dunno. It seemed like he had an enormous head. He was like a giraffe. But he was useless.

5. Frank Stapleton
Again this would be an argued choice but he came at a time when the likes of Ian Rush was banging in tons of goals for Liverpool. I did like hime because he never gave less than 100% but he just didnt score enough goals during that time.

Heroes for the future:
Wayne Rooney
Ronaldo

Could've been heroes:
Ruud van Nistelrooy
David Beckham
Jaap Stam

[Dark Savante]

Heroes:

1. Eric Cantona
My favourite Manchester United player. Ever. I started supporting United when I was a kid in the 70's. My first memory of them was the 1976 FA Cup Final (aka, The F-king Bobby Stokes final). I had a tough time as a kid especially with my older Liverpool supporting brother. Anyways.... Eric Cantona changed all that losing trend. He was the difference between coming 2nd or 3rd and actually winning the whole thing. He changed the suffering into joy.

2. Ryan Giggs
I remember watching his debut game, the skinny kid who everyone raved about. And he didnt let anyone down. 15 or so years later and he still had the hunger but now in a more leadership role. Just think about that. 15 years. Only the likes of Bobby Charlton have had that type of longevity.

3. Mark Hughes
The never-say-die man. Tough as nails. Never scored a cheap or flukey goal. He only scored spectacular goals. Also, came back to United after being as Barcelona. When British players move abroad to a Spanish or Italian club and then return to play in England, it is rare that they come back to the club where he started from. Sparky did that.

4. Bryan Robson
While surrounded by mediocrity for most of his days at United, fans could always count on Robbo giving nothing less than 100% all of the time. He carried the team on his shoulders for so long in the barren days of the 80's. Maybe thats why he dislocated his shoulder on numerous occasions. Also, he scored in my first ever live Manchester United game, against West Ham. It was a cold Friday night game in March 1985 in Upton Park, coming on as a sub after being out for a period from...you guessed it, a shoulder injury. We were behind and of course he scores, the game ended 2-2.

5. Roy Keane
I was delighted when Roy Keane joined us, he had the opportunity to learn from my other hero Robbo. He was a good student to say the least. He came into his own in the late 90's most notably dragging his team back into the CL Semi with Juventus when all had seemed lost so early on.

6. Ole Gunnar Solskjaer
Funnily enough, before this season Ole probably would not have made my list. I had always admired him but his return this season and the sheer happiness that he is playing with has elevated him to my elite group of heroes.

7. Lou Macari
I loved the little Scot. Always played with a bubbly enthuiasm. Plus he always seemed to score a good number of goals each year.

Villians:
1. Andy Cole
Yes I know a lot of people love Andy Cole but I find it very hard to forget his first sluggish years here.

2. Gary Birtles
He was supposed to do what he did for Notts Forest but was an absolute disaster.

3. Neil Webb
See Gary Birtles. Thankfully Keano stopped that trend of Forest flops.

4. Gordan McQueen
I dunno. It seemed like he had an enormous head. He was like a giraffe. But he was useless.

5. Frank Stapleton
Again this would be an argued choice but he came at a time when the likes of Ian Rush was banging in tons of goals for Liverpool. I did like hime because he never gave less than 100% but he just didnt score enough goals during that time.

Heroes for the future:
Wayne Rooney
Ronaldo

Could've been heroes:
Ruud van Nistelrooy
David Beckham
Jaap Stam

damn Ted, that's harsh on Andy!

Totally agree with your could've beens. Jaap was my fav defender of the 90's till he did what he did :(

Your first game was at Upton Park? You literally couldn't get a worse and more dangerous venue!! Did it kick off there? Did you wear colours?

[SirManchester]

Alright, I've been avoiding this thread since it started because I had little time to write. I finally have some now, so let's get it out of the way.

HEROES:

Eric Cantona - He's my idol on the pitch, he's the reason why I began watching and supporting United and he's without a doubt my favorite United footballer of all time (or the short amount of time I've been a supporter). I began to catch glimpses of United in 1994/95. I was very young and I remember just starting to watch English football. The very first broadcast of the league featured a United match, I didn't know it at the time but when I caught a glimpse of the collar, the swagger, the very presense he created on the pitch, I knew I wanted to play like that guy. It's immense what he did for the club upon his arrival. Ferguson had a good squad but we just couldn't finish at the top of the league, that is until the King arrived. He was that extra something we needed to reclaim the crown, he was the spark, always providing crucial goals and leading the team on the pitch. He was loyal, honest, intellectual, and not once did he manage to compromise himself. He truly embodied everything that Manchester United stood for and I grew up to love. I don't know if there will ever be any player that will even come close to his greatness.

Roy Keane - To me he was always the more subversive hero. On any given day he could lead and inspire the team. He didn't have to talk, although very talkative, his game would do the talking. Gradually he grew up to become the captain (possibly the greates United captain of all time) He always managed to remain loyal to the club. When there was something wrong with the club, the players, the managment, he always spoke up. He was the closest thing we ever had to a second Ferguson. Brutally honest and fierce on and off the pitch, ( it seems like he could do NO wrong on the filed) his departure was felt immediately after he left and is still felt up to this very day. It was immense to have a Robson and then a Keane following up. Once again, that's something many of us take for granted. It may never happen again.

Ole Gunnar Solskjaer - Not neccessarily my favorite of players but he probably has the biggest heart. It's so rare to find a player, in a top club that would sit out so many games and continuously come off the bench. Many players (especially in this era) would simply ask to leave the club. Not Ole. His professionalism was and still is outstanding, many of our players can learn from him. When he came off the bench, you could almost always guarantee that he would score, or at least do something to change the game. Many people also forget how talented he was. In his prime, he was one of the best and most clinical finishers in the world. His first touch was up there with the best. So many of his goals were absolutely dreamy and the opposition would cry every time they'd hear his name announced as he would come on as a sub. After Becks left, his role switched to the far right and he more than adapted, I would say that was one of his best season and it wasn't even in his natural role. He's a true legend. We could always count on him, whether it's his performance on the pitch, his sportsmanship, or his loyalty. He's a true United legend and a football legend.

David Beckham - I know I know, it's a shame he turned out the way he did but when he first burst onto the scene, it seemed like he was unstoppable. His attitude was outstanding. He worked harder than anyone else and I wouldn't put my money on anyone else's loyalty for the club at that moment. His passes were superb and he slotted in with Giggs,Scholes, and Keane in a well oiled machine and possibly the greatest United midfield of all time. We cannot forget his freekick goals, his perfect crosses and his celebrations. For his short time here ( and I do believe it was too short for him) he was the perfect United player.

VILLAINS:

David Beckham - Well, this was fairly obvious. It was painful to watch him slowly rot, from great player to a Poshy cvnt. He pretty much ruined his own career, his relationship to Ferguson and to the club itself. In a way it's unforgivable, because he was nurtered by the club and it made him into the star he is today. It's a great shame he couldn't get his head out of his ass before he was given the boot (OH!).

Jaap Stam - My favorite United defender. When we signed him, I was absolutely extatic, with him alone in the defense we could have achieved great things. He slotted in right away and showed the right grit and determination he was signed for. I can't imagine what other great things we could have accomplished in Europe were he to remain more loyal. It's difficult to hate the guy because he was so damn good, but ultimately he not only dug his own grave but he shuned the fans as well, and that merits every kind of criticism.

Cole/Yorke - Great partnership, among the greatest. I can't remember watching any other strike duo link up and understand each other so well. They had great assistance but at times it seemed they were going to score no matter what. We couldn't have won the treble without them. However, Yorke's arrogance and Cole's rather lax attitude later on was difficult to swallow for fans. They gave so much for the club and fans loved them. It always amazes me that a player can go from such greats to such lows and leave the fans down.

Ruud Van Nistlerooy - Same story here. His record speaks for itself. Whether you liked him or not, he scored goals, it's as simple as that. However I think much of it got to his head. When we just began our transistion period, we needed to experiement. We had Saha to alternate with. Everyone was willing to compromise, except him. I felt as though he had this arrogance about him, where he felt it's a no brainer that he should start and play, no matter what. When he wasn't willing to compromise, it immediately marked his end here. And once again, it's a shame because I still felt he had plenty to offer us. We still see him score ample goals in La Liga. Whether or not he could have still slotted in, in our new formation, I personally felt he turned his back on the fans.

Andrei Kanchelskis - At one point, my favorite winger, he also deserted the fans when he shockingly admitted he wanted to leave. I could never and I stopped wanting to know why the hell this was the case. I thought he would stick around for the long term, for sure. I was wrong and in a way I felt extremely let down. (That feeling was soon compensated with Becks - and then again let down - and then again compensated with Cristi)

I won't begin to mention the likes of Veron, O'Shea, and Silvestre. I don't think they're big villains at all; bad player - yes, villains no. The latter are all still loyal to the club and I'm sure aren't purposely hurting us, it's up to Ferguson whether he wants to replace them.

[Mugatu]

Hey Dark Savante

I just plugged your last post into Microsoft Word and did a little count:

12 pages
6,145 words

How do you find time to do all this?!?!?!?!

Are you practicing for a law school dissertation?

[Sapphire]

6,145 words
FYI, that's 145 words MORE than a University student in the state of Florida needs to write in an entire course to get credit for having taken a composition course.

Congrats, DS: A- and 3 credit hours for you. :p

[Father Ted]

damn Ted, that's harsh on Andy!

Totally agree with your could've beens. Jaap was my fav defender of the 90's till he did what he did :(

Your first game was at Upton Park? You literally couldn't get a worse and more dangerous venue!! Did it kick off there? Did you wear colours?

Yes, Upton Park but it wasnt so bad. I was just 15 at the time and on a school trip to London. About 10 of us went to see the game and didnt wear any team colours. Of course when Robbo scored I jumped up and yelled "Yessss!" forgetting in that moment that this was not a wise thing to do back then. One of the chaperones with us yelled to me to sit the f down. But I couldnt get the smile off my face despite the potential hostilities.

I've been to OT three times, 94, 96 and 98. Also, I've seen United twice here in the US. Next trip to OT will be with my son, I guess in 4-5 years!

[Dark Savante]

Hey Dark Savante

I just plugged your last post into Microsoft Word and did a little count:

12 pages
6,145 words

How do you find time to do all this?!?!?!?!

Are you practicing for a law school dissertation?
If you knew how many words I wrote a day or have in my life you'd know my activity on BS probably accounts for less than 2% of my 'typage' per day, lol.

It's funny when this 'issue' comes up on here, BS is actually a bit of escapism for me.

That particular post was written at about 4am whilst I was in chronic pain with my previously impaled foot. Instead of whaling whilst waiting for the drugs to kick in, I just typed that out, took my mind right off it, which was the intention, was also enjoyable to write as well.

Law!?!?!?
FYI, that's 145 words MORE than a University student in the state of Florida needs to write in an entire course to get credit for having taken a composition course.

Congrats, DS: A- and 3 credit hours for you.
Yay! \o/ what do I win? gimme, gimme :D
Yes, Upton Park but it wasnt so bad. I was just 15 at the time and on a school trip to London. About 10 of us went to see the game and didnt wear any team colours. Of course when Robbo scored I jumped up and yelled "Yessss!" forgetting in that moment that this was not a wise thing to do back then. One of the chaperones with us yelled to me to sit the f down. But I couldnt get the smile off my face despite the potential hostilities.

I've been to OT three times, 94, 96 and 98. Also, I've seen United twice here in the US. Next trip to OT will be with my son, I guess in 4-5 years!
:D I bet your chaperone was bricking it! haha.

Make sure you pick a good un for the lad's first game :) Take him to see the scallies.

[mhtwins113]

Very long and good post
I thought you of all people, being a commie and all :p , would absolutely loathe Richardson to no end. It shocked me that he wasn't at the top of your Villain list, much less wasn't on it.

[Howard Zinn]

Hero:

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41248000/jpg/_41248050_nevile2_action_270.jpg


A man that gives everything for the cause. It's not possible to question his commitment to the club. Some debate his merits as a player, but I would take him over every other RB out there when fully fit. His crossing and stamina are world-class, whilst he's very intelligent and wily when defending. Massively underrated, IMO. He also gives hope to short, unathletic people everywhere that they too can become footballers at the greatest club in the world.


Villain:

I really haven't followed the club long enough to be let down by a player enough to call them a villain. I suppose Ronaldo comes the closest, but I never expected him to stick around anyway, so it really didn't get me all that angry when he talked about leaving over the summer.

[Achtung]

This is a difficult thread for me. I guess I can't really bring myself to think of a Manchester United player as a villiain per se. During the time I've been following the team, there have been three truly controversial transfers out, in Stam, Beckham, and van Nistelrooy. But none of them qualify for me because they did so much for the team in their time here and never spoke ill of the club or fans (to my knowledge at least).

To me a villain is someone who uses the team for their own gain and abuses the feelings and dedication of the fans. To some, Beckham falls into this category as he rode the team's popularity to be "the" David Beckham, but I don't think he ever really turned his back on us. It's just that his idea of what his career would entail clashed with the interests of the club.

An extreme example of a villain would be someone like Ashley Cole, who basically used Arsenal to get a higher wage elsewhere and disrespected not only his old club but some would say the very game itself. But like I said, that's a bit extreme.

The closest we've come to someone like that IMO is Dwight Yorke, who forgot the idea of a good work ethic and decided to use his reputation for his own benefit. It's the idea of "nowhere to go but down" that you sometimes see. Would have been better for him to leave on his own rather than painting himself into a corner during the 01-02 season. But even Yorke scored so many vital goals and was a part of so many title runs that its hard to call him a villain.

One player who I'd throw into the hero category despite him playing well before my time is Bryan Robson. To be as talented as he was and to stick with the club through such tough times when he could have gone almost anywhere else is a true sign of devotion to the club and to the fans. And then to top it all off with glory in the league at the end of his career just vindicated his decision to stay. Captain Marvel indeed.

Ole Gunnar Solskjaer isn't just a United hero or even a legend--he is officially a Manchester United God. Not just to be one of the most consistent, most intelligent strikers the game has seen, not just to gladly come off the bench when he'd start at almost any other club in the world, not just to score the greatest goal to clinch the greatest moment of glory in club history. But no, he had to go and have the strength and belief in himself that after missing virtually all of three full seasons, he'd come back and be as good as new. And you know what? He did it. He ********ing did it. That is a story that every young person, footballer or otherwise, who falls upon tough times should hear. That kind of belief in oneself transcends the game.

So I guess in that sense my heroes are Solskjaer, Robson, and Giggs as well for introducing me to what the game was really about. Without him, I wouldn't be a fan of United.

[SirManchester]

I thought you of all people, being a commie and all :p , would absolutely loathe Richardson to no end. It shocked me that he wasn't at the top of your Villain list, much less wasn't on it.

I knew I forgot someone.

I wouldn't exactly put him at the top, seeing as he hasn't performed such villainous acts as my other inclusions. However, he does encompass everything that's wrong with the modern day player. And I can very much sense that he's a small virus at the club, his attitude constantly eating away at the core of the club. I don't like him, but he's yet to really drive that nail in the coffin to be a true "villain". I guess he has to rob a bank, is what I'm saying.

[Fandando]

Great idea for a thread DS, but a difficult one to answer for sure. Who to choose? I guess my top two heroes, in no particular order, would have be the Shankill Skinhead (big Norm) & Robbo.

Without doubt, Bryan Robson was the footballer every young lad of my generation imagined themselves to be when kicking their precious, scuffed old footballs around the playgrounds, playing fields and driveways of the day. I was no different. Marvellous player, captain of England and Manchester United, star of Jossy's Giants and the inspiration behind the best pair of football boots I’ve ever had the privilege of owning (predator my ass), this guy was the composite football star and a perfect man for his time. Legend!!!

The most naturally gifted player to wear the red shirt in 15 years, an introduction to senior football that would put ROTR to shame and the hardest (read most violent) player of his generation, Whiteside was always destined to capture the hearts and minds of the utd support. Enough said.

Villain? Easy: John Obi Mikel (no explanation needed).

[Dark Savante]

A big thanks to all contributors. I personally enjoy these kind of threads more than most as they ask those contributing to share personal thoughts, which is always a far bigger ask than your usual thread.

It's always fun to draw numerous takes on the same players as well.

[Father Ted]

Oh yeah, I guess I should put Ruud in my Villian group after he refused to sign his autograph for me back in 2003 in New Jersey:p. Not so for great stalwarts such as Keano, Rio, Giggs etc to did sign for me.

[Dark Savante]

This is one thread I hoped wouldn't die :(

benni, you mentioned this thread in another thread.,..where's your list dangnabbit!! ;)

What I don't get is this thread has nothing to do with how long you've been a fan, it merely asks for your heroes and villians :)

Why are people so reluctant? Is you shy, or does you not wanna share? :-p