a 'cachirule' in the 2003 u-20 Brazil squad

[LMvCP]

http://espndeportes.espn.go.com/news/story?id=499704

RIO DE JANEIRO -- El centrocampista brasileño Carlos Alberto, jugador del Figueirense y campeón mundial Sub 20 con la selección nacional que en 2003 derrotó en la final a España, reconoció en la noche del miércoles que falsificó su edad para jugar como profesional y aseguró que lo hizo obligado por la miseria.

En una entrevista a la radio CBN, la primera desde que fue denunciado el caso, el jugador exculpó a todos los clubes por donde pasó y dijo que la identidad fue forjada antes de convertirse en jugador profesional.

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many teams do this and to this day it still pisses me off that Mexico was suspended 2 years from international competition for having overaged players.

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HBO's Real Sports had a segment on the amount of dominican baseball players that falsify thier birth certificates just to get a try out. Young adults in their early 20s would change their age to 15-16.

I understant, but dont condone it. When these kids are living in poverty, they will try to do anything to get ahead. Same applies in footie.

[Disco Dale]

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many teams do this and to this day it still pisses me off that Mexico was suspended 2 years from international competition for having overaged players.

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Yeah, I know.... and honestly, if the culprits had been, say, England, Italy, Brasil, would the punishment have been so harsh.... really?
Wasn't the Federation that complained at that time Guatemala? They so nearly made it to the world cup this year... just needed Mexico to beat T&T.... how odd, then that Mexico got beat..... mysterious world.....

[Goofy]

Yeah, I know.... and honestly, if the culprits had been, say, England, Italy, Brasil, would the punishment have been so harsh.... really?
Wasn't the Federation that complained at that time Guatemala? They so nearly made it to the world cup this year... just needed Mexico to beat T&T.... how odd, then that Mexico got beat..... mysterious world.....
See, the problem with Mexico, if I recall correctly, was that it was the federation itself that deliberately forged the information. And there was a deliberate cover-up. The federation and coach Avilan were well aware of the fraud.
Plus, of course, there are politics involved. Mexico plays South American tournaments. Are we supposed to do so?
As for Guatemala, in context the Mex natl team was far more concerned with not losing players to injury or suspension than with some obscure revenge motive most modern fans aren't even aware of. Guate sucked cuz it panicked. Period.

[LMvCP]

See, the problem with Mexico, if I recall correctly, was that it was the federation itself that deliberately forged the information. And there was a deliberate cover-up. The federation and coach Avilan were well aware of the fraud.

By no means am I defending Rafael del Castillo because his leadership failed when it counted, but to his defense, he was not aware of it. In an interview given a while back, he even stated that back then, not a lot of money nor attention was given to youth teams. But ultimately, he should be blamed because he was the president and should know what is going on around him.

The person that would have known was Alberto De La Torre. Name sound familiar right? Until recently, he was the FMF president. De La Torre was the president of that youth national team committee. Keep in mind that only a parent can obtain a minor's passport, something they (the federation) could not do. This leads me to believe that either the parents or the agents were the ones behind the falsifications. I strongly believe that agents and other 3rd parties benefiting financially from player development were the ones behind it.

In the National Teams thread (Mexico World Cup 1990) i explain what happened and how the whole cachrules scandal broke out.

When Del Castillo's enemies (Joaquin Soria Terrazas) had him by the balls, Rafael Del Castillo's mistake was that he denied the wrong doings. In retrospect, he should have called for a full investigation and cut some heads (one being Alberto De La Torre for being the president of that youth team committee).

Mexico plays South American tournaments. Are we supposed to do so?

Back in 1987, we did not play in any sanctioned CONMEBOL tournaments

also..The US had already secured a place by placing second so they did not want to open an investigation. Guatelama was 3rd in the group standings and if Mexico would have been guilty, be defualt they would have gone to the olympics being the 2nd place team (which they did).

[Disco Dale]

in context the Mex natl team was far more concerned with not losing players to injury or suspension than with some obscure revenge motive most modern fans aren't even aware of. Guate sucked cuz it panicked. Period.
I don't think it would matter whether "modern fans" were aware or not, however I am sure you are correct.... its the romantic in me that likes to think it was otherwise........

[LMvCP]

Yeah, I know.... and honestly, if the culprits had been, say, England, Italy, Brasil, would the punishment have been so harsh.... really?
Wasn't the Federation that complained at that time Guatemala? They so nearly made it to the world cup this year... just needed Mexico to beat T&T.... how odd, then that Mexico got beat..... mysterious world.....

In retrospect, I wont say that the Guatemalan FA were the ones that ********ed us over, because we did that ourselves. A more competent FA would be aware of its surroundings.

However, to me it is a bitch move to want to ******** over another FA. I am just glad that out of the central american big 4 (El Salvador, Costa Rica, Honduras, and Guatelama) that they are the only CA team not to participate in a World Cup....

it serves them well :D

[Kaney]

I remember reading somewhere that one of our players that got caught had his photo in his club team's yearbook with his correct date of birth. This was one of the things used as evidence against Mexico. Can anyone confirm this?

[LMvCP]

I remember reading somewhere that one of our players that got caught had his photo in his club team's yearbook with his correct date of birth. This was one of the things used as evidence against Mexico. Can anyone confirm this?

According to a source that I read, the info was on the FMF's yearbook (anuario).

[sidspaceman]

I'm pretty sure that this isn't the first time that Brazil has had a overage player play in a youth tournament. Don't think they have ever been punished for it though.

[el mofles]

Yeah your right its not the first time in recent years Brazil has been caught in that mess.
IN 1999

TOKYO (Reuters) - Brazil's unique record of being the only country to have
taken part in the finals of every World Cup is in danger because of
allegedly fielding overage players at an under-17 tournament.


If found guilty, the Brazilian soccer federation, the CBF, could be banned
from international soccer for two years, based on punishments handed out by
FIFA in similar cases.......

Regardless if Blatter saw the obivious negative effects of a sanctioned Brazil, I think Havelange would of looked the other way too if he would of let it leak out to the press in the first place.

Mexico could of had public canings for the people responsible for their mishap, but it wouldn't of mattered since it had no political leverage within FIFA.

If we go back I'm willing to bet this type of stuff was hapening in Brazil during Joao's FIFA watch, but he came down hard on Mexico so he could look uncorruptable and not draw attention to his ownself. For them to get bold enough to do it in such a short time frame seems it's a well ingrained aspect within the Brazilian federation.

[puromorelia]

Yeah your right its not the first time in recent years Brazil has been caught in that mess.
IN 1999

TOKYO (Reuters) - Brazil's unique record of being the only country to have
taken part in the finals of every World Cup is in danger because of
allegedly fielding overage players at an under-17 tournament.


If found guilty, the Brazilian soccer federation, the CBF, could be banned
from international soccer for two years, based on punishments handed out by
FIFA in similar cases.......

Regardless if Blatter saw the obivious negative effects of a sanctioned Brazil, I think Havelange would of looked the other way too if he would of let it leak out to the press in the first place.

Mexico could of had public canings for the people responsible for their mishap, but it wouldn't of mattered since it had no political leverage within FIFA.

If we go back I'm willing to bet this type of stuff was hapening in Brazil during Joao's FIFA watch, but he came down hard on Mexico so he could look uncorruptable and not draw attention to his ownself. For them to get bold enough to do it in such a short time frame seems it's a well ingrained aspect within the Brazilian federation.

If history repeated itself and Mexico was caught doing something like this again do you guys feel Mexico now has enough financial leverage for FIFA to overlook such thing?

[Chivin]

In retrospect, I wont say that the Guatemalan FA were the ones that ********ed us over, because we did that ourselves. A more competent FA would be aware of its surroundings.

However, to me it is a bitch move to want to ******** over another FA. I am just glad that out of the central american big 4 (El Salvador, Costa Rica, Honduras, and Guatelama) that they are the only CA team not to participate in a World Cup....

it serves them well :D
I read that once too!
sadly, I can't find the article, but it said that Mexico had only been suspended for the Olimpics, and that Guatemala was pressuring, but that nothing was going to happen, until one meating they had with FIFA officials.
it is said that Del Castillo tried to brive them, that's when the general suspention came along. They called the mexican watergate.

[LMvCP]

i think the player was only slapped with a months suspension and fine... hmmmmmm

[Levante]

i think the player was only slapped with a months suspension and fine... hmmmmmm

What a bunch of b.s. It would have to take a scandal of epic proportions for FIFA to punish Brazil.

[EduarDitto]

The Africans do it all the time. I haven't heard of a recent issue but from what I've heard, it was quite common for a Nigeria or Ivory Coast team to bring 20 year-olds to youth tournaments such as the Under-17 WC.