Ursuline 100 (more or less) With DOBs

[Soccernethost]

Mods, started a new thread so people could see the title. Figured it might be of interest to others and if it was post #38 in another thread no one would see it. Not like the board is being burned up with new topics in any event.

Field players 32 or older today were dropped from the list. There were also a few names I couldn't find a DOB for and since I'd never heard of them didn't worry about it.

Name, Age in 2006, (DOB) in order of birth by position:

Goalkeepers:

Kasey Keller - 36 (11/69)
Brad Friedel - 35 (5/71)
Zach Thornton - 32 (10/73)
Kevin Hartman - 32 (5/74)
Joe Cannon - 31 (1/75)
Matt Jordan - 30 (10/75)
Tim Howard - 27 (3/79)
Nick Rimando - 27 (6/79)
Adin Brown - 27 (5/78)

Defenders:

Tony Sanneh - 35 (6/71)
Greg Vanney - 32 (6/74)
Greg Berhalter - 32 (8/73)
Eddie Pope - 32 (12/73)
Frankie Hejduk - 31 (8/74)
CJ Brown - 31 (6/75)
Steve Jolley - 30 (10/75)
Mike Petke - 30 (1/76)
Wade Barrett - 30 (6/76)
Jimmy Conrad - 29 (2/77)
Ramiro Corrales - 29 (3/77)
Ryan Suarez - 29 (7/77)
Chad McCarty - 28 (10/77)
Steve Cherundolo - 27 (2/79)
Nick Garcia - 27 (4/79)
Carlos Bocanegrea - 27 (5/79)
Jim Curtin - 27 (6/79)
Rusty Pierce - 26 (7/79)
Corey Gibbs - 26 (1/80)
Danny Califf - 26 (3/80)
Phil Sayler - 25 (10/81)
Nelson Akwari - 24 (2/82)
"Gooch" Onyewu - 24 (5/82)
Alex Yi - 24 (2/82)

Midfielders:

Chris Armas - 33 (8/72)
Brian Massionneuve - 33 (6/73)
Claudio Reyna - 32 (7/73)
Eddie Lewis - 32 (5/74)
Steve Ralston - 32 (6/74)
Chris Klein - 30 (1/76)
Pablo Mastroeni - 29 (8/76)
Richard Mulrooney - 29 (11/76)
Ben Olsen - 29 (5/77)
John O'Brien - 28 (8/77)
Dema Kovalenko - 28 (8/77)
Peter Vagenas - 28 (2/78)
Sasha Victorine - 28 (2/78)
Brian West - 28 (6/78)
Francisco Gomez - 27 (1/79)
John Thorrington - 26 (10/79)
Kyle Martino - 25 (2/81)
Kelly Gray - 25 (4/81)
Brad Davis - 24 (11/81)
DaMarcus Beasley - 24 (5/82)
Bobby Convey - 23 (5/83)
Kyle Beckerman - 22 (2/84)
Justin Mapp - 21 (10/84)

Forwards:

Joe Max-Moore - 35 (2/71)
Brian McBride - 34 (6/72)
Ante Razov - 32 (3/74)
Jovan Kirovski - 30 (3/76)
Jeff Cunningham - 29 (8/76)
Clint Mathis - 29 (11/76)
Josh Wolff - 29 (2/77)
Taylor Twellman - 26 (2/80)
Chris Carrieri - 26 (4/80)
Edson Buddle - 25 (5/81)
Conor Casey - 25 (7/81)
Landon Donovan - 24 (3/82)
Alecko Eskandarian - 24 (7/82)
Devin Barclay - 23 (3/83)
Eddie Johnson - 22 (3/84)
Santino Quaranta - 21 (10/84)
Freddy Adu - 17 (6/89)

[Soccernethost]

Anyone want to update this to include players not on the radar in August 2002?

Interesting to see what an "all inclusive" list looked like 3 1/2 years ago...

[JohnR]

Interesting to see what an "all inclusive" list looked like 3 1/2 years ago...

Yes, it is.

Heckuva good list, it must be said. Damn inclusive. OK, maybe missing a goalkeeper. After that ... Heath Pearce? Rolfe? Zavagnin? Ching? Carroll? Fringe guys in the grand scheme of things, each with only modest chances of making the roster.

The very youngest players on the list -- the guys who felt like the biggest stretch at the time, because none of them had caps, indeed most had never played a pro game -- look the most solid. OK, Alex Yi where have you gone? ... but Freddy, Santino, EJ, Mapp, Convey, Gooch, they're very much in the hunt.

Some of the very oldest have aged pretty well too. It's the medium-old, medium-quality prospects -- the guys born in the late 1970s who were never stars -- who have fared the worst. Jolley, Petke, McCarty, Garcia, Dema, Vagenas, Sasha, Gomez, Thorrington. I guess that the ultimate message is to be on quality, not age.

[Martin Fischer]

Comeone, we don't need lists of 100 anymore. Last year yes, this year, we should be down to close to 40 now.

[forza inter]

some of the guys included have retired...so we could definately try to edit this for todays standards as applicable.



forza inter

[voros]

Comeone, we don't need lists of 100 anymore. Last year yes, this year, we should be down to close to 40 now.
I had been doing this more or less since others had stopped. I can do one with 50 players if you like.

[voros]

Goalkeepers
1. Kasey Keller - Moenchengladbach
2. Tim Howard - Manchester United
3. Matt Reis - New England
4. Marcus Hahnemann - Reading
5. Kevin Hartman - Los Angeles

Defenders
1. Carlos Bocanegra - Fulham
2. Oguchi Onyewu - Standard Liege
3. Eddie Pope - Salt Lake
4. Steve Cherundolo - Hannover 96
5. Cory Gibbs - Feyenoord
6. Greg Berhalter - Energie Cottbus
7. Frankie Hejduk - Columbus
8. Jonathan Spector - Manchester United
9. Chris Albright - Los Angeles
10. Heath Pearce - FC Nordsjaelland
11. Jimmy Conrad - Kansas City
12. Chad Marshall - Columbus
13. Danny Califf - Aab
14. Todd Dunivant - Los Angeles
15. Ugo Ihemelu - Los Angeles
16. Bobby Boswell - DC United
17. Nat Borchers - Colorado

Midfielders
1. Landon Donovan - Los Angeles
2. Claudio Reyna - Manchester City
3. John O'Brien - ADO Den Haag
4. DaMarcus Beasley - PSV
5. Pablo Mastroeni - Colorado
6. Eddie Lewis - Leeds
7. Bobby Convey - Reading
8. Clint Dempsey - New England
9. Steve Ralston - New England
10. Santino Quaranta - DC United
11. Chris Armas - Chicago
12. Ben Olsen - DC United
13. Kyle Martino - Columbus
14. Justin Mapp - Chicago
15. Brian Carroll - DC United
16. Chris Klein - Kansas City
17. Kerry Zavagnin - Kansas City
18. Pat Noonan - New England
19. Clint Mathis - Salt Lake
20. Benny Feilhaber - Hamburger

Forwards
1. Brian McBride - Fulham
2. Eddie Johnson - Dallas
3. Josh Wolff - Kansas City
4. Taylor Twellman - New England
5. Brian Ching - Houston
6. Conor Casey - Mainz
7. Chris Rolfe - Chicago
8. Freddy Adu - DC United

I'm guessing every one of the 23 will be on this list somewhere (save Rossi should he change his mind), but you never know.

[numerista]

This thread seems like a good place to put the results of Grant Wahl's 2002 survey of MLS coaches, plus Rongen and Ellinger, in which he asked for a starting 11.

POSITION-BY-POSITION VOTES FOR 2006

GOALKEEPER

Brad Friedel 5.5
Tim Howard 5
Adin Brown 1
Kasey Keller 0.5

RIGHT BACK

Steve Cherundolo 4.5
Tony Sanneh 2
Chris Klein 1
Pablo Mastroeni 1
Richard Mulrooney 1
Oguchi Onyewu 1
Sasha Victorine 0.5

CENTERBACKS (2)

Eddie Pope 8
Carlos Bocanegra 6
Tony Sanneh 3
Dan Califf 2
Wade Barrett 1
Gregg Berhalter 1
Pablo Mastroeni 1
Claudio Reyna 1

LEFT BACK

Carlos Bocanegra 4
Wade Barrett 3
Bobby Convey 1.5
Sasha Victorine 1.5
DaMarcus Beasley 1

RIGHT MID

Ben Olsen 9
Freddy Adu 1
Landon Donovan 1
John O’Brien 1

HOLDING CENTER MID

Pablo Mastroeni 4.5
Chris Armas 4.5
Dema Kovalenko 1
John O’Brien 1
Peter Vagenas 1

ATTACKING CENTER MID

Claudio Reyna 3
Landon Donovan 2
John O’Brien 2
Bobby Convey 1
Eddie Gaven 1
Daniel Hernandez 1
Kyle Martino 1
Clint Mathis 1

LEFT MID

DaMarcus Beasley 10
Bobby Convey 1
John O’Brien 1

FORWARDS (2)

Landon Donovan 9
Clint Mathis 6.5
Taylor Twellman 3
Eddie Johnson 2
Santino Quaranta 2
Brian McBride 1.5

[ursula]

This thread seems like a good place to put the results of Grant Wahl's 2002 survey of MLS coaches, plus Rongen and Ellinger, in which he asked for a starting 11.

POSITION-BY-POSITION VOTES FOR 2006

HOLDING CENTER MID

Pablo Mastroeni 4.5
Chris Armas 4.5
Dema Kovalenko 1



- Hey SNH! long time, no read!

- CAP DEMA!!!!!

- Man, those votes in the Wahl poll sure were off in many cases. Of course, how many of those coaches are still coaching?

[sidefootsitter]

- Man, those votes in the Wahl poll sure were off in many cases... That poll should be brought up every time someone projects the current 17-20 year olds into the 2,010 WC line-up.

Four years is a darn long time in soccer years.

[voros]

That poll should be brought up every time someone projects the current 17-20 year olds into the 2,010 WC line-up.
As long as you understand the inherent inaccuracy of such projections, I think doing so is fine. I'm going to do a 2010 one pretty soon, and I always feel its important to list players that age as a reminder that players that age often compete in the World Cup.

Also, the big misses (Sanneh, Olsen and Mathis) didn't seem to be concentrated among young players, but guys who will be pushing 30 or higher this summer. The three youngest players on the list are Eddie Gaven, Eddie Johnson and Freddy Adu. Two have been capped already, and Freddy looks set to. Those weren't really bad picks actually, and in fact Eddie Johnson has done even better than projected.

I think if you're among the three best 17 or 18 year olds in the country. That's a very positive indicator for your career. More positive than I think a lot of people believe. Being say numbers 7 - 20 is a different story altogether.

When I do the 2010 list, I'm going to proportion the players agewise similar to the proportion of ages of players in the 2002 World Cup. The guys who aren't pros yet and aren't in Bradenton are obviously the hardest to gauge. Chris Rolfe and Clint Dempsey both went from not all that well known to senior team caps in a big hurry.

[Soccernethost]

The results of that poll look an awful lot like the preferred 2002 lineup to me.

And thanks for the welcome back, Ursula. I've been around, though -- just under another name. (ooh, the mystery!)

[comeonoxford]

Interesting to consider how quickly a player can rise to first choice from obscurity, how difficult it can be to properly project a player's best position and how quickly players can fall off in quality.

And Reyna at centerback? Did that ever make sense?

[jameseyla]

Interesting to consider how quickly a player can rise to first choice from obscurity, how difficult it can be to properly project a player's best position and how quickly players can fall off in quality.

And Reyna at centerback? Did that ever make sense?

Chad Deering went from starting in World Cup 1998, to the Dallas Burn, to indoor soccer in a 3 year period.

[Casper]

Interesting to consider how quickly a player can rise to first choice from obscurity, how difficult it can be to properly project a player's best position and how quickly players can fall off in quality.

And Reyna at centerback? Did that ever make sense?
A lot of people at the time were speculating that Claudio would move to the back line as he slowed down. He hasn't had a manager for club or country who agreed with it, and he hasn't slowed down (he really is pretty much the same speed he was in '02, though slower than he was until '00, by my reckoning), so it hasn't happened yet. I'd argue it never will, but we'll see.

I'm interested that ursula thinks the picks are pretty far off from the Wahl poll. Here my evaluations by position:

GK: People didn't anticipate Friedel's retirement. Keller hadn't had his rejuvenating move to Moenchengladbach yet. Friedel and Howard weren't bad choices. Hahnemann had yet to have his incredible '04 or get promoted to the Premiership.

RB: Dead on.

CB: Pope slowed down faster than I would have expected. Bocanegra may well prove accurate. Onyewu and Gibbs were uncapped and very speculative. I would have been truly impressed had the MLS coaches picked those two. Berhalter and Mastroeni were both good choices. Whoever voted for Wade Barrett wasn't paying attention in class.

LB: Boca and Convey were good picks. Maybe they should have known Barrett had already reached his peak. Forecasting the Eddie Lewis experiment would have been a stretch.

RM: It's easy to forget how enticing Olsen was in '99 on the right now that he's been in the center for a couple of years. O'Brien was a pretty stupid vote, Donovan wasn't a bad pick, and Adu was someone just trying to be provocative.

CM: Good votes, ignoring Dema being Ukranian at all. Smarter than voting for Viera for this spot ...

AM: Also good votes. Mathis has disappointed, and Hernandez and Martino were definitely stretches, but the other votes were fine.

LM: Right on.

F: Too much confidence in Mathis, and forecasting too swift a decline for McBride, but these are good too.

[Shackleton]

Chad Deering went from starting in World Cup 1998, to the Dallas Burn, to indoor soccer in a 3 year period.


So, down first, then back up?

[Shackleton]

Double post. Delete.

[Casper]

I'm having fun with this. Presenting my all-nightmare squad of the worst selections from above. To read this post properly, imagine flipping on the TV in June and watching this squad starting against Italy:

-----Brown
Sanneh-Reyna-Barrett-Victorine
-----Kovalenko
Olsen-----Convey
-----Hernandez
Mathis - Quaranta

After the Reyna-Barrett CD combination is shredded, Victorine and Sanneh pinch inside but can only stand and watch as crosses fly in by the dozen. The US doesn't win a single defensive header in the first half. Dema is sent off early in the second half for attempting to reach inside Totti's chest to tear out his heart. Olsen is rarely heard from out wide, but pinches in defensively to stop the bleeding. Convey occassionally breaks free down the left and gets in a cross which Mathis usually doesn't even attempt to win, as the crowd chants, "At least you got promoted, Con-VEY, Con-VEY!" Daniel Hernandez shows up for the match wearing a green jersey, confused about which national team asked him to come to the World Cup. And Quaranta only touches the ball twice during the entire match.

Afterward, FIFA disqualifies the US from the tournament for using Kovalenko, whose citizenship application will not be approved until 2008.

Arena is immediately dismissed, and Steve Sampson joins the team to coach for the remaining games. Sampson gets special dispensation from FIFA to replace Dema on the roster, and calls Michael Mason.

[swedust]

Goalkeepers
...

Defenders
...

Midfielders
1. Landon Donovan - Los Angeles
2. Claudio Reyna - Manchester City
3. John O'Brien - ADO Den Haag
4. DaMarcus Beasley - PSV
5. Pablo Mastroeni - Colorado
6. Eddie Lewis - Leeds
7. Bobby Convey - Reading
8. Clint Dempsey - New England
9. Steve Ralston - New England
10. Santino Quaranta - DC United
11. Chris Armas - Chicago
12. Ben Olsen - DC United
13. Kyle Martino - Columbus
14. Justin Mapp - Chicago
15. Brian Carroll - DC United
16. Chris Klein - Kansas City
17. Kerry Zavagnin - Kansas City
18. Pat Noonan - New England
19. Clint Mathis - Salt Lake
20. Benny Feilhaber - Hamburger

Forwards
...

I'm guessing every one of the 23 will be on this list somewhere (save Rossi should he change his mind), but you never know.

I'd say Rico Clark has a better chance than some who made this list.

[sidefootsitter]

As long as you understand the inherent inaccuracy of such projections, I think doing so is fine. I'm going to do a 2010 one pretty soon, and I always feel its important to list players that age as a reminder that players that age often compete in the World Cup... Well, if you start with a 100 player list, the odds of getting 15-17 out of 23 WC members is pretty high obviously.

The smaller the list, the lower your odds become. I for example can name a starting 11 for the 2,010 Cup as:

------------Guzan ------------------

Wynne----Marshall-Onyewu---Pearce-

-------------Spector---------------

Quaranta-------Convey--------Mapp-

-----------Rolfe------Jaqua--------

but if someone else predicts

---------------Howard-------------

'Dolo------Spector----Onyewu---Convey

-------Feilhaber-----Bradley---------

---------Donovan----------Beasley--

-------------Johnson-----Ching-----

then we could compare the prophet in all of us.

PS. I also place more stock on the Euro experience than others, including Bruce Arena, and if Bruce Arena isn't the US coach in 2,010 ...