PDA

View Full Version : If they don’t make it here, here is the reason why. (reserves)


Pages : [1] 2 3 4 5 6

Dark Savante
09 Oct 2006, 05:20 PM
I don’t know how many of you remember the strengths and weaknesses of the each reserve player I made in one of the review threads? In the weaknesses section are the reasons why I believe players won’t make it here if they are destined to fail. I was meant to make a thread about pace but I don’t have the time. In it I had planned to go into great detail about the subject and also about why it is likely to be the athletes (who may not be technically complete) who will get the nod over technicians who lack size, strength or pace. The reason why an Agbanlahor goes straight into the league and make an impact where the superior Rossi cannot.

Anyway, here are my thoughts on what we as fans should be thinking if each of these players fail to make the grade. As a pre-cursor, it should be noted that by talent and ability I’d be comfortable for any of this lot to be given a stay with the team of at least equal measure to what Fletcher, Richardson and O’Shea got.

I’m probably not going to write a reserve review until next year now as I haven’t had the time to watch any games and certainly haven’t had the time to form a solid opinion of anyone in the few games I’ve seen. I would have added this section to that review, as it’s not likely for a while, I may as well write it now.

Giuseppe Rossi: Rooney. Biggest obstacle for Rossi. The pros of this are that Rooney is young and should not play full seasons until he is 24. It’s also beneficial for Rossi in that if he plays pseudo #9 he has someone who he should be able to build with. The negative is that it’s Wayne bloody Rooney. For Manchester United and the way we play, Rooney is a hurdle to far… for 95% of the foot-balling world. The blunt end of this is that Rossi’s career may end before it even starts in regards to us because Rooney will not be budged by anyone and unless the manager rotates between them, Rossi is the fall-guy, understandably.

Rossi isn’t going to become a #9 not in the sense where he starts over a true and premiership proven #9. So unless there was an injury crisis, it’s not likely Rossi would start many games or get on unless Rooney was taken off… The manager would most likely put someone else in to come on for Saha, I think. Could be the greatest of tragedies. The greatest reserve, blocked by the greatest player at the club. You couldn’t make it up.

Lee Martin Goals. Simple as that. He has sorted out his crossing and his final ball looks to be quality now, but to really make inroads on the United squad, Lee needs goals. Giggs, Ronaldo even Richardson to an extent, carried a goal threat at a very young age. Lee’s shooting was atrocious in the reserves, it really let him down because he could get himself into positions where all that was needed was an accurate and composed finish and he’d end up rolling a pitiful ball into the keepers hands or scuffing the shot. It’s the last piece of his jigsaw. A huge one, that’ll decide his fate. He needs to pick up on the scoring, bit time.

David Jones Pace/Strength/Stamina. The reluctance to play him comes from doubts about his ‘pace off the mark’ it’s a bloody shame because this lad has oodles of talent and pace really isn’t that important in the CM area if you are always one step ahead via reading of the game. He’s also not that slow. He’s often made out to be a slouch or not up to it. He’s no Zokora (who is a rocket for a CM) but he has a decent engine on him. The stamina issue could well be his biggest problem. I’m basing this on the last time I truly saw the lad every week and I’m not sure he could complete a PL 90 as a CM in a hard game against a Savage or Parker or anyone else who would aim to run him into the ground. Stamina can be worked on though and I’ve not seen the lad play for a while so he may well be fitter now than he was then.

Jonny Evans N/A. Shoe-in. I’ve yet to see a weakness in his game.

Gerard Pique Aggression. He may not be cut out for the rough and tumble of this league. It’s a clutch at straws because before he went off on loan he’d toughened up considerably and the Ishmael Miller’s etc of the reserves could no longer bully him. And those Citeh lads are as strong and fast as almost anything in the PL (Miller stands 6’3 and is an absolute tank, think Heskey pace and power)

Danny Simpson Size. He’s small, he needs to grow and fill out some or he could fall by the wayside. I see no technical aspect for him to not make it. He is a superb RB. His height and build could see him bullied by donkey’s who are bigger and stronger than he is though. I think this is his only obstacle. He’s my tip to take Gaz’s spot when the time comes.

Phil Bardsley Technique. You’ve all seen him for yourselves. He’s dependable defensively. His attacking game needs a ton of work.

Darron Gibson Pace. Again, he’s no Zokora, but he has a decent engine on him. I’m clutching at a straw here, he’s another shoe-in for me with his size, power and overall brilliance. He is PL ready (size wise) as it is, but needs experience.

Frazier Campbell Improvement. He’s got to keep on getting better. A striker’s shelf-life is totally reliant on goals as he goes up the levels. Campbell has done nothing wrong and is shining in Antwerp, but that’s demanded and he will have to keep doing the thing at higher and higher levels. Blake was cut because of an injury he never recovered from and then his time ran out. Such is the life of a striker that the same fate could befall Campbell at anytime. We just can’t know, the difference between a big injury for a midfielder or defender is that they aren’t judged under the scrutiny a striker gets. You can see within 5games whether a striker is damaged goods, a mid will get half a season under the same conditions to redeem himself. I hope he has a clear run of it with regard to outside factors and that he is judged by the sword of his own ability.


I’ll leave it there. No point mentioning Eckersley, Foster et al, they aren’t close to anything for us for a good 2yrs whereas this lot in varying degree, could come through anytime between 6months and 2yrs in some cases. Technically, Bardsley is the only one who has concern as his entire offensive game is poor. Martin just needs to fix his shooting. Outside of that he’s good to go. For me, the travesties will be Rossi and Jones not given chances. That’d be a huge shame.

This thread obviously omits the external factors (Fergie's job on the line, etc) to focus on the individuals and why they won't get chances and for what reasons. You can bet if Jones had Zokora pace he'd have been playing long before now :(

biro
09 Oct 2006, 05:55 PM
Good points. Personally I don't see the worry over Rossi, Fergie's livid with Newcastle for not playing him but I do think he's going to get starts up there now. Once he starts scoring regularly he'll come back and be an active member of the first team squad for years to come. I take your point about Rooney but I read the other week that the plan is for Wayne to drop back and replace Scholesy, which leaves a nice hole for Rossi to fill. Johnny evans is a cert as you've said & Pique should come good too. I wouldn't be surprised to see Simpson, Gibson & Campbell all get another year out on loan in more competitive leagues.

sdotsom
09 Oct 2006, 05:56 PM
Solid analysis. I do believe Rooney will be Rossi's biggest obstacle in this team. Rossi would get minutes around him, rather than as a true starter, and that will not be enough for him because he is too talented.

Personally I have a lot of hope for Phil Bardsley and Lee Martin, I think they will be MUQ. Gibson as well.

Lancashire Lad
09 Oct 2006, 06:05 PM
Well depending on the true transfer kitty situation Fergie may have to give them a shot. Seems a great pitty after being daring with young players Fergie doesnt want to give them a run out. How much experience do you need on loan before you get a chance??

Teso Dos Bichos
09 Oct 2006, 06:29 PM
As I posted on another thread, Chelsea is the problem. Arsenal can afford to risk younger players and not compete because they have no choice. They shipped out all of their experience and cannot afford to buy more. Their fans understand that. Our fans simply won't accept that. Man Utd must compete and challenge Chelsea. It's what the club demands. If that means youngsters will have a harder time breaking though, that's the sad truth of the situation we are in. If Ferguson did a Wenger and started to bring these kids in and we slipped, everyone would be looking for blood. He can't win either way, as the chances of our kids immediately clicking are slim.

phishy
09 Oct 2006, 06:52 PM
As I posted on another thread, Chelsea is the problem. Arsenal can afford to risk younger players and not compete because they have no choice. They shipped out all of their experience and cannot afford to buy more. Their fans understand that. Our fans simply won't accept that. Man Utd must compete and challenge Chelsea. It's what the club demands. If that means youngsters will have a harder time breaking though, that's the sad truth of the situation we are in. If Ferguson did a Wenger and started to bring these kids in and we slipped, everyone would be looking for blood. He can't win either way, as the chances of our kids immediately clicking are slim.

*i love you arsenal*

SirManchester
09 Oct 2006, 07:22 PM
*i love you arsenal*


see? Some of us United fans are very objective. At this point, Arsenal is doing better business than United.

Charleysurf
09 Oct 2006, 07:35 PM
*i love you arsenal*
:confused: Surely he's just saying that expectations are lower for Arsenal. Arsenal can be forgiven transition seasons. United must always be challenging for the title or the club is "in crisis". I don't read much love there, although there is always respect I'm sure.

sdotsom
09 Oct 2006, 11:58 PM
:confused: Surely he's just saying that expectations are lower for Arsenal. Arsenal can be forgiven transition seasons. United must always be challenging for the title or the club is "in crisis". I don't read much love there, although there is always respect I'm sure.

That's what I took out of it. United can't have transition seasons..Arsenal can. We are the club that "won it with the kids", we are the team that has to blood in the youngsters and still win it all at the same time. There's a lot more pressure on United than on Arsenal.

Realwood
10 Oct 2006, 12:05 AM
:confused: Surely he's just saying that expectations are lower for Arsenal. Arsenal can be forgiven transition seasons. United must always be challenging for the title or the club is "in crisis". I don't read much love there, although there is always respect I'm sure.

If Arsenal didn't reach the CL final or sneak into fourth, you would have seen an upset fanbase. I don't think anyone was happy with our league form and expect a vast improvement this year.

Our expectations are just as high as Man United. Don't kid yourself.

rancho
10 Oct 2006, 09:06 AM
Good points. Personally I don't see the worry over Rossi, Fergie's livid with Newcastle for not playing him but I do think he's going to get starts up there now. Once he starts scoring regularly he'll come back and be an active member of the first team squad for years to come. I take your point about Rooney but I read the other week that the plan is for Wayne to drop back and replace Scholesy, which leaves a nice hole for Rossi to fill. Johnny evans is a cert as you've said & Pique should come good too. I wouldn't be surprised to see Simpson, Gibson & Campbell all get another year out on loan in more competitive leagues.I

Do you think that Rossi is so stupid not to see that he will never get a fair chance at Manchester because they only want to play players with a big £ tag.I hope that he does well at newscastle and hope he asks for a transfer because I hate to see such talent wasted.At manchester right now there are to much nonsense going on with the young players.They can't find playing time and don't have the backing and encouragment by the first team coaches.Simply put:Manchester don't longer believe in youth regardless what they say. Let's look at some of the talent that Man U.sold or sent on loan because they don't have the time to develop their young players.What happen with Spector? Sylvan Blake?Steele?Bellion?Fox? Neumayer?Rossi?David Jones ?Pique? et. etc.etc.I could go on and on .The bottom line is in the long run those player will play at a higher level because they have talent and i won't be surprised if not too long from now we will have to pay top £ to rebuy those young players. To the coaching staff :if you don't have the courage to use young talent why do you go around the world and spend money for young player that you will never use? Why do you have an accademy that has produce and produces great?........

sdotsom
10 Oct 2006, 09:21 AM
Although your post has some valid points, wrapped up in a rant, we still have quite a few kids that have a future. The Antwerp kids will hopefully get some minutes when they get back to Manchester, along with our current 1st Division loanees (Rossi-Newcastle, Martin/Bardsley-Rangers, Pique-Zaragoza). I don't think Fergie sent those boys off with the intention of selling them, except possibly Pique, who seems to be more of a La Liga player.

Look at the names you threw out though..

Spector- We are quite set at backs right now. Simpson/Bardsley coming up, alongwith Heinze, Silvestre, Evra, G.Neville. While I would have been ecstatic to see an American, and a Chicago boy, make it at United, we are loaded at the position and that's what happens.
Bellion - I'd argue he got his chances.

Steele- We have Ben Foster, who was a possible callup for the World Cup! Also Tim Howard and VDS, who was a necessary purchase after Carroll's poor showing here. Foster always seemed to be the next up-and-comer, so I don't think Steele has a role.

There is a lot of players leaving, and I do think Fergie is abit more cautious now, but there will still be a few youngsters who get chances here. However, instead of getting long runs in the side, they will only have a few chances to show if they are MUQ, so the pressure is on them.

Uniteder
10 Oct 2006, 09:30 AM
Is Ritchie Jones still at United ? Noone evens seems to mention him :(

phishy
10 Oct 2006, 11:01 AM
*i love you arsenal*

UNITEDER??

you seriously gave me negative rep cuz of this post???
no idea who you are, but you are definitely a retard.:rolleyes:

Uniteder
10 Oct 2006, 11:04 AM
UNITEDER??

you seriously gave me negative rep cuz of this post???
no idea who you are, but you are definitely a retard.:rolleyes:

O' the irony :rolleyes:

Stud83
10 Oct 2006, 11:12 AM
DS, good reasons, I'm wondering who you think will make it here. And by making it I mean be a permanent member of the squad (for many seasons), playing more often than not.
Out of the group, I think only Evans and Simpson will make it here. And possibly Gibson.

johno
10 Oct 2006, 12:16 PM
If Arsenal didn't reach the CL final or sneak into fourth, you would have seen an upset fanbase. I don't think anyone was happy with our league form and expect a vast improvement this year.

Our expectations are just as high as Man United. Don't kid yourself.

I call bullshit. There's been little talk of Arsenal being in decline or sacking Wenger. If we'd barely qualified for the CL, Ferguson would have been sacked. Hell, there was talk of us being in turmoil when we had 79pts in that season! There's barely been anything negative in the press about Arsenal and I promise you thats a reflection of media AND fan expectations.

Achtung
10 Oct 2006, 12:50 PM
There's barely been anything negative in the press about Arsenal and I promise you thats a reflection of media AND fan expectations.

A lot of that involves how long Ferguson has been in the job, but it also reflects the way Ferguson treats the mostly London-based media like crap. It's not shocking given the general distrust in the north for all things London, but it certainly colors the difference in an Arsenal "crisis" versus a United "crisis".

At the end of the day, the stakes for United are high and have always been high. Even in 1995, after that opening day loss to Villa, Ferguson was skewered for having the audacity to play so many young, inexperienced players in a season in which the team was expected to contend for the title. Even after he was vindicated that season, and even moreso three years later, the stakes for kids coming up through the system have always been very high. If the weaknesses of this new crop of players is enough to keep us from winning, then Ferguson won't play them. On the other hand, if a player has a tough time breaking it at the top level but SAF believes he has class, then he won't hesitate to stick with him in the lineup (Fletcher). Sometimes I think we read too much into his decisions. Realize that any weaknesses shown at the reserve level will only be magnified at the Premiership level.

loghyr
10 Oct 2006, 01:34 PM
That's what I took out of it. United can't have transition seasons..Arsenal can. We are the club that "won it with the kids", we are the team that has to blood in the youngsters and still win it all at the same time. There's a lot more pressure on United than on Arsenal.

I'd argue that the last two years were transitional for ManU. Their pressure on Chelsea last year was great, but somewhat unexpected.

The expectations at the start of this season were higher than those at the start of last season.

sdotsom
10 Oct 2006, 01:57 PM
I'd argue that the last two years were transitional for ManU. Their pressure on Chelsea last year was great, but somewhat unexpected.

The expectations at the start of this season were higher than those at the start of last season.

I agree with you, and that's why United are currently called "in crisis". Because instead of winning over the last 2 years, we've been getting younger players, trying to blood in players like Fletcher, all while having to deal with Chelsea's instant domination of the Prem. These past 2 years have been transitional in a sense. However, this season there seems to be something different in the air...Chelsea kind of stumbled out the block, we raced out to a strong start, and now all of a sudden it is United's time to win the Prem again.