Crisis or Phase?!?!

[johno]

Is Gary Neville's form a sign of him being done or is this just a bat patch of form that he'll recover from in time.

Neville's poor form has been mentioned here and there for quite some time but I think it deserves a full thread. Its not something to be swept under the rug.

Even if Neville weren't our captain it would still merit discussion because Neville has been a starter at United for about a decade and his main attribute is consistency. Sure he's had bad matches, really bad moments within matches before but he's failed to put in one superior performance in a long long long time. He's had average performances but not since maybe Liverpool last year has he really been excellent.

So yes, even if he wasn't captain we could realistically call this a crisis. The fact that he IS captain and isn't providing the stability we need in terms of play OR leadership deserves some serious attention.

Now - we've got some options.

1. Form is temporary class is permanent no need to panic.

2. Its a bad patch, but he's getting old and injury prone, we should bring back Bardsley/Simpson to learn from him - he'll recover but he's done after 1 more year.

3. He's suffering a loss of confidence based on the weight of the armband - remove it and he'll be back to normal.

4. He's done - bring back Bardsley to replace him in the side immediately.

I'll let you guys have a go before I voice my opinion.

[benni...]

Crisis. I dont think there is much to say on it. He is getting old. He was never really a World Class Fullback, but he was always reliable, and now due to age probably, he's deteriorating.

[Charleysurf]

I think it's too early in the season to know if this is just a patch of rough form or something worse. It is a worry though. He was not so secure in the early England WC games either.

[Numquam Moribimur]

Form is temporary class is permanent no need to panic.

[Stud83]

No need to panic, he's not that bad, and he'll regain his form. In fact, I am much more worried about our left back position - Heinze's health is questionable, Evra imo hasn't played well this season, and Silvestre's out for a while...

[Republic of Mancunia]

Defensively,as far as winning tackles and headers and making interceptions I don't think his form has been too bad, just slightly off. So from that point of view I'd go with a form is temporary, class is permanant.

For giving the ball away in dangerous areas which also comes under the category of defending it is a little alarming for me but I feel it can be rectified. As for bombing down the wing and supporting the attack before putting in a good cross it looks like those days may be numbered.

Overall I guess it would have to be somewhere between option 1 and option 2 for me. I feel he can recover and be sound defensively again but believe he's on the way out as far as making overlapping runs go. Not willing to say he's done right now and am not sure what removing the captaincy would do to help the situation.

I feel we'll just see him adapt his game a little from now on but still put in some stellar work at the back. Overall I'll just have to side with option 2, "Almost done - bring in a kid for Gaz to pass on the mantle". Not sure what you mean by 1 more year? Is that the end of the this season or next? I'd be happier with next.

[Motterman]

Gary Neville is a Red.

[SirManchester]

Crisis. I dont think there is much to say on it. He is getting old. He was never really a World Class Fullback, but he was always reliable, and now due to age probably, he's deteriorating.

on the contrary, Neville was a worl class fullback in his time here. He performed well and consistently domestically and in Europe. That is world class to me. He's not high profile like Zambrotta or Roberto Carlos or even Maldini but to me he's always been world class, by my standard. His loyalty and reliabilty will always make him so.

Anyway, I think these kinds of talks about his drop in form is exagerrated. He hasn't been that bad this season. In fact, I thought he was tremendous against Arsenal and it's only been the last two games where he's been a bit off. It's normal for a 30+ year old, but I think we can continue to rely on him as a starter for one more season. But it's also important to start giving our youth time in the role when Gary isn't fit or injured.

[Lancashire Lad]

Defensively,as far as winning tackles and headers and making interceptions I don't think his form has been too bad, just slightly off. So from that point of view I'd go with a form is temporary, class is permanant.

For giving the ball away in dangerous areas which also comes under the category of defending it is a little alarming for me but I feel it can be rectified. As for bombing down the wing and supporting the attack before putting in a good cross it looks like those days may be numbered.

Overall I guess it would have to be somewhere between option 1 and option 2 for me. I feel he can recover and be sound defensively again but believe he's on the way out as far as making overlapping runs go. Not willing to say he's done right now and am not sure what removing the captaincy would do to help the situation.

I feel we'll just see him adapt his game a little from now on but still put in some stellar work at the back. Overall I'll just have to side with option 2, "Almost done - bring in a kid for Gaz to pass on the mantle". Not sure what you mean by 1 more year? Is that the end of the this season or next? I'd be happier with next.

I agree with you, but prefer someone other than Nev to be captain. However there arent many options, which means that he will retain it.

[benni...]

on the contrary, Neville was a worl class fullback in his time here. He performed well and consistently domestically and in Europe. That is world class to me. He's not high profile like Zambrotta or Roberto Carlos or even Maldini but to me he's always been world class, by my standard. His loyalty and reliabilty will always make him so.

Thats just your opinion. Personally, Im tired of him getting the ball ten yards away from half field, and instead of moving forward, just dumping the ball upfront. He was probably world class for a short period of time. He was never consistant in Europe to me. His loyalty means nothing about his playing ability. His isi reliable. You dont have to have a workd class fullback to succeed. He was good, but not that great.

Anyway, I think these kinds of talks about his drop in form is exagerrated. He hasn't been that bad this season. In fact, I thought he was tremendous against Arsenal and it's only been the last two games where he's been a bit off. It's normal for a 30+ year old, but I think we can continue to rely on him as a starter for one more season. But it's also important to start giving our youth time in the role when Gary isn't fit or injured.

Once again thats your opinion. Against a ************ newcastle team he didnt stand out. Infact, was the only one not to stand out. He gave the ball away numerous times. His crosses were mediocre. In Europe, its been the same this season. He hasnt been that bad this season, but he hasnt been that great either.

Simpson is a long way off, so dont count on him. Bardsley is alright. Nothing special. Decent. Of course IMO.

[johno]

Time to weigh in.

I've been quite disappointed with Nev to this point. Its sad to say but he's pst his best now and I don't think he's ever going to be a better than average RB going forward AND defensively.

He's been a bit injury prone over the last few years (one season in the last 5 when he played 25 or more league games) and I think physically he's been worked too hard for too long. He's 31 and has over 500 games under his belt and I honestly think he's on his way out of the game.

Neville can still be a decent RB defensively - better than that perhaps. But I don't think we'll see him at both ends of the field any more and he's going to have to step up his concentration in order to avoid giving the ball away and his positioning is going to have to be even sharper as he loses pace.

I think its best that we bring back Bardsley in January and have him train along side Neville and play with the first team in practice and in some matches this season because I think Neville can really help make Bardsley's transition into the team a smooth one and make him a better player.

I've got this nagging feeling that Neville is going to go down for a stretch this season and if we have Bardsley on hand we can stop him from being too worn out and also have ample back up on hand if he does get injured. The reason I want Bardsley specifically is because I think he's the next best RB in our team and although Simpson should pass him in the future he's not there yet. Brown can do a job but he's never going to be a RB and Bardsley could actually benefit from getting games there. Having a quality back up for him could mean that Neville is rested and fit for our most difficult fixtures and that is paramount.

I think by this time next year Neville will or should be starting in about half our games.

[SirManchester]

Thats just your opinion. Personally, Im tired of him getting the ball ten yards away from half field, and instead of moving forward, just dumping the ball upfront. He was probably world class for a short period of time. He was never consistant in Europe to me. His loyalty means nothing about his playing ability. His isi reliable. You dont have to have a workd class fullback to succeed. He was good, but not that great.



Once again thats your opinion. Against a ************ newcastle team he didnt stand out. Infact, was the only one not to stand out. He gave the ball away numerous times. His crosses were mediocre. In Europe, its been the same this season. He hasnt been that bad this season, but he hasnt been that great either.

Simpson is a long way off, so dont count on him. Bardsley is alright. Nothing special. Decent. Of course IMO.

He's past his prime, that much is a fact. But it's absurd not to think he's been great up to this point. He's been very reliable ever since he came into the first team. He provides good crosses going up and makes tackles at the back, actually gets involved in defence unlike so many fullbacks nowadays. It's impossible not to appreciate that. It was enough, forget all that world class nonsense of comparing him to high profile players, what he's done has made him invaluable.

There is no doubt however that we have to replace him sooner than later.

[StrikerCW]

Gaz is the consistant defender on both ends (was). However age is getting to him IMO. It is only a matter of time more and more mistakes will be made and perhaps he will start to get beat with pace even more so as time goes on this season.

Bardsley is not the greatest player in the world, but he is young. He is basically Gaz in training. A little quicker perhaps and inexperienced but is in similiar mold IMO, of course I haven't seen THAt much of him but he looked decent enough when I did.

I think they would get along well and Gaz should be able to mentor him into the position this season and next as Simpson comes up as well in about 3 seasons.

[Think]

Gary "panick station" neville needas to leave. I had enough of his long ball obsession. But there are more important issues in hand than gary at the moment. Like why on earth are oshea and fletcher our best midielders this year. says alot about the 18 million pound player.

[johno]

Paul Scholes has been the best midfielder in the prem - so I don't know what you're going on about.

[holytoledo]

Maybe age is catching up to him a bit I don't know. I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt.

There isn't a right back in the world I would take over him from the mid nineties to maybe 03 or 04.

[SirManchester]

Maybe age is catching up to him a bit I don't know. I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt.

There isn't a right back in the world I would take over him from the mid nineties to maybe 03 or 04.


Within that time frame, the only two fullbacks who I'd rate higher than Gary are Zambrotta and Sagnol. Cafu doesn't have the neccessary defensive attributes. But I'd still take Gary because of his commitment and love for this club.

[holytoledo]

Within that time frame, the only two fullbacks who I'd rate higher than Gary are Zambrotta and Sagnol. Cafu doesn't have the neccessary defensive attributes. But I'd still take Gary because of his commitment and love for this club.

Yeah agreed. I'd put maybe Thuram in that group as well. But I'd still take Gary. :D

[Numquam Moribimur]

I am not worried at all....He had a run of 2 bad games, He'll be back to form esp with the dippers coming to town in a few weeks

[haven]

Too early to tell.