Education for kids

[Lizzie Bee]

I have a theoretical question for people here. This is something I've thought about a lot.

Let's say you have a smart kid, or heck, even an average kid. You teach them their ABC's, how to count, blah blah blah. Let's say they're reading when they're 3 or 4, and doing simple math by kindergarten. End result: bored to death in kindergarten. What do you do?

1. Do you deliberately not teach them when they're young so they won't be bored in school? This would foster a whole lot of mediocrity, it seems. I don't want my kids to be mediocre.

2. Do you "enrich" their education after school? A friend of mine says her daughter essentially goes to kindergarten for "play time" and then actually learns stuff at home when her mom teaches her. It seems like a parent couldn't keep this up all the way through high school, and if they did, what would be the point?

Any of you thought through this or had any success with helping smart kids reach their potential despite school? :p

[Mr. Bee]

Well I certainly wouldnt go with the first one if my son ends up like that.

On a similar note... on the subject of skipping grades to escalate your child's development. I'm torn on this. I was skipped two grades in elementary school - first semester of first grade directly to second semester of second, then I skipped sixth entirely. When I was young it wasn't an issue, but it really starts to hit in High School and College - graduating HS when you're 15 causes quite the culture shock going to College. I don't know if I would do the same to my son.

[Boundzy]

Personally, I would opt for "after school enrichment" rather than deliberately slow a child's education. However, I've known parents who have chosen not to teach their children "too much" before kindergarten so that the kids aren't bored.

I would not be in favor of advancing my child in school more than 1 grade, if that. Appropriate peer relations and social skills are as important (more important?) to development as one's academic skills, and I think that it is easiest for children to develop those skills with an age-appropriate peer group.

[Lizzie Bee]

There is a growing program called "Early College High Schools" which can be run as charter schools. We have a couple here in Utah. This is my one glimmer of hope for my son (assuming he shows interest...)

Basically, it's a small charter school which is affiliated with a college. The kids take classes at both, and then end their high school with an associate's degree. (I think that's how it works anyway.)

That sounds like a cool sort of program. I'm all for academic reform and trying to pull the US into the 21st century (academically) to make us more competitive again in the national market.

(p.s. This is all very theoretical for me still. My oldest son is in preschool!)

[Boundzy]

(p.s. This is all very theoretical for me still. My oldest son is in preschool!)

Ha! I know what you mean. Occasionally, my wife and I find ouselves falling into the trap of trying to make all the 'Right' decisions regarding educational toys and materials, mother's day out/childcare programs, montessori vs. private vs. public schools, etc.

When, in truth, the most important aspect of parenting is providing a loving, positive, nurturing environment that encourages social interaction, curiosity, exploration, and learning while setting apporpriate limits.

[bungadiri]

Just be aware that kids learn a lot in kindergarten beyond the basics of academics, what with socialization and all that jazz. Both my sons were early readers and they had plenty to do once they started kindergarten. But then they had (and I'm not kidding here) the world's greatest kindergarten teacher.

[Lizzie Bee]

Good point. My son needs the socialization more than anything else at this point.

[bungadiri]

Good point. My son needs the socialization more than anything else at this point.
Don't we all.

[OneGoodKnee]

I'm also here in Utah. I have a six year old (1st grade) and 4 year old (pre-school).

When I was a kid I skipped second grade. I'm not sure it was a great decision but I'm not sure it was a bad one.

My six year old was reading well in advance of kindergarten. After learning letters and sounds he just sort of worked it out himself. He met with his kindergarten teacher prior to beginning school and she spoke to my wife about what they would do to keep him engaged and busy throughout the year. They succeeded in some areas and didn't do as well in others.

He is now in an Accelerated Learning Program (ALPs) class in the Jordan School district with other kids recommended by their teachers and who also scored well on a long two part test. He seems to like it and is doing well. I think the teacher is trying to allow the kids to move at the pace they are capable.

Anyway, I have no idea if this will be a good thing for him in the long run. I know he wasn't getting a lot from kindergarten outside of the social component (which is extremely important). He wasn't bored to death, he got to make friends, work on projects, but I don't think he learned a lot academically that he wouldn't have otherwise.

I hope this program provides opportunities and gets him in an environment with like-minded kids with like-minded parents (we are expected to be very involved with the class).

I think the four year old will likely be reading by the time he enters kindergarten but he is less interested in books, science, etc. He will probably enjoy kindergarten more, not so much because he will get more out of it academically but because he will relish the social aspect.

So, yes, we try to enrich their education after school. I owe it to my kids because I remember how few truly great teachers I had. I am not, however, having lessons with them.

I agree completely with

the most important aspect of parenting is providing a loving, positive, nurturing environment that encourages social interaction, curiosity, exploration, and learning while setting appropriate limits.

it is just darn hard to find the time each of them needs and seems to get harder as our kids get older.

[Lizzie Bee]

onegoodknee: good to hear from you. I have looked into the ALPs program when we were considering a move out of Utah County earlier this year. Here in Alpine School District, there is a gifted & talented program for 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th grades but that's it. My mom actually started the program here in the district and I participated when I was younger. I'm confident your child will benefit from it a lot, at least more than he would a normal classroom.

I also agree completely with "the most important aspect of parenting is providing a loving, positive, nurturing environment that encourages social interaction, curiosity, exploration, and learning while setting appropriate limits." Not that it's always easy to be that kind of parent... some moments it's pretty near impossible. "You WHAT with the watercolors???!?"

[chad]

I decided not to graduate 2 years early from high school, and I don't regret it all.

I send my daughter, who turned 3 in June, to private school. Is that not an option for you? I can understand why it might not be - we only chose private school because that's what yuppies on the north side of chicago do.

[Twenty26Six]

I also agree completely with "the most important aspect of parenting is providing a loving, positive, nurturing environment that encourages social interaction, curiosity, exploration, and learning while setting appropriate limits." Not that it's always easy to be that kind of parent... some moments it's pretty near impossible. "You WHAT with the watercolors???!?"

From my own experience...

I think the most important thing is allowing your child to be "part of the group" by seperating him as little as possible from his peers in the school enviroment.

If you teach him the right things at home...
Proper Time Management
What is a Priority?
Responsibility
Critical Thinking
...all the rest will fall into place.

Your child's growth is a combination of all factors, and the most important aspect of life boils down to teamwork, leadership, cooperation in peer groups. He'll never learn that properly if he is isolated [through intellect] from the majority of his social peers throughout childhood.

If he is bored with school, try introducing things that don't involve academics to make him a more well-rounded child. Sports, Music, etc.

[Ringo]

we only chose private school because that's what yuppies on the north side of chicago do.


tell me you're not a yuppie! I thought you were a rawker! :eek:

[johan neeskens]

I have a theoretical question for people here. This is something I've thought about a lot.

Let's say you have a smart kid, or heck, even an average kid. You teach them their ABC's, how to count, blah blah blah. Let's say they're reading when they're 3 or 4, and doing simple math by kindergarten. End result: bored to death in kindergarten. What do you do?

1. Do you deliberately not teach them when they're young so they won't be bored in school? This would foster a whole lot of mediocrity, it seems. I don't want my kids to be mediocre.

2. Do you "enrich" their education after school? A friend of mine says her daughter essentially goes to kindergarten for "play time" and then actually learns stuff at home when her mom teaches her. It seems like a parent couldn't keep this up all the way through high school, and if they did, what would be the point?

Any of you thought through this or had any success with helping smart kids reach their potential despite school? :p

What would you like to educate them extra on? In general, only knowledge that is actually relevant to the development stage of young children will stick with them for the rest of their life. It generally is a much better idea to stimulate their creativity than to actually teach them school subjects, as that will prepare them for their future education much better than pre-school knowledge of school subjects ever will.

I find it pretty sick that a six year old I know is an expert at using a computer but hasn't learnt how to eat different foods or how to behave in public. Teach them what's relevant to them at their age, I say.

[chad]

tell me you're not a yuppie! I thought you were a rawker! :eek:Well, I'm not a yuppie.

But my wife might be. She keeps me around to make herself feel like she's cool and not a yuppie. :p

[Ringo]

my wife does that too. I'm cool enough for at least three or four people, so we're in pretty good shape.

[IntheNet]

Let's say you have a smart kid, or heck, even an average kid. You teach them their ABC's, how to count, blah blah blah. Let's say they're reading when they're 3 or 4, and doing simple math by kindergarten. End result: bored to death in kindergarten. What do you do?

montgjules: I've thought about your question quite a bit. Forcing the reading of the classics upon youth today, with the prevailing influences of electronic media, almost guarantees them to rebel against any education that will be gained. Instead you need to set an example for children and teenagers; make education something they'll readily pursue on their own. This is not as hard as you might imagine. Initially, take advange of the electronic multi-media available today and sit with your children to watch a movie that will challenge them to perhaps read and dig deeper into the subject. Want an example? Rent or purchase the DVD, "The Old Man and the Sea," (1958) [the John Sturges directed film with Spencer Tracy as the lead]. Make a big deal about the film and sit with children while they watch it. Such an evening will ineviatibly be followed by youthful questions about the film and its characters and plot... with any luck at all the kids will be interested in the book and pursue a reading of it. Another option would be The Count of Monte Cristo (2002) or if your children are animal lovers, try Where the Red Fern Grows (1974). Most of these movies will prompt your children to read further into the story and read the book account.

Alternatively, the most valuable educational effort you could do for your children is to pick one day during the week when your television is not activated. Force them to discover reading in any way you can, even if they have to view a story first then read deeper... The intellectuals of tomorrow will be the readers of today.

Good luck...

[Twenty26Six]

Forcing the reading of the classics upon youth today, with the prevailing influences of electronic media, almost guarantees them to rebel against any education that will be gained. Instead you need to set an example for children and teenagers; make education something they'll readily pursue on their own. This is not as hard as you might imagine. Initially, take advange of the electronic multi-media available today and sit with your children to watch a movie that will challenge them to perhaps read and dig deeper into the subject. Want an example? Rent or purchase the DVD, "The Old Man and the Sea," (1958) [the John Sturges directed film with Spencer Tracy as the lead]. Make a big deal about the film and sit with children while they watch it. Such an evening will ineviatibly be followed by youthful questions about the film and its characters and plot... with any luck at all the kids will be interested in the book and pursue a reading of it. Another option would be The Count of Monte Cristo (2002) or if your children are animal lovers, try Where the Red Fern Grows (1974). Most of these movies will prompt your children to read further into the story and read the book account.

Alternatively, the most valuable educational effort you could do for your children is to pick one day during the week when your television is not activated. Force them to discover reading in any way you can, even if they have to view a story first then read deeper... The intellectuals of tomorrow will be the readers of today.

Good luck...

I get the impression that you came out of the womb as a dry, unamused 45 yr old man? :confused: A black and white movie from 1958 based on a book by Hemingway? For a 5-6yr old? That screams entertainment. :o I don't think I could sit through it, and I enjoy reading 17th Century British Literature! :D

You'll force them to discover reading by interesting them with less involved projects such as magazines or articles dressed in familiar modern styles. To capture the attention of a kid U-10 it has to be eye-catching, stimulating and over pretty quick since they won't have the attention span for something more involved.

The "less television" policy [as eluded to before] is always a good first step.

[Lizzie Bee]

I think people misunderstood me.

I have a son who is dying to learn anything I teach him. He's starving for knowledge. He could spend all day doing "Mommy School" (which is what I call the time I get my lazy butt off of BigSoccer and teach him). I'm not forcing the classics on him. I'm not forcing ANYTHING on him. He loves science and art and geography (unlike his mom). He isn't interested in reading much yet, so we don't stress it at all. He likes math, so we do stuff like cut up pretend pizzas into fractions. It's all fun and it's the one thing that he really loves to do.

My question isn't about how to force this stuff on my kids. My question is what do you do with your kids once they're in school and their NATURAL CURIOSITY has already led them to discover the things they're being taught? Do you artificially withhold knowledge from them when they ask for it, so they won't be bored in school? Etc...

Hope that clarifies.

edit: None of this is done at the expense of anything else, such as learning to not run with scissors... I believe in being well-rounded, etc.

[Twenty26Six]

My question is what do you do with your kids once they're in school and their NATURAL CURIOSITY has already led them to discover the things they're being taught?

Brag. ;)

Seriously, reading is always route one in my opinion. Everything in life starts from the basic skill of being a "critical thinker" and/or a "close reader".

So probably get some cool science and math books that he may relate too. At that age I was huge into dinosaurs, the pictures and fantasy drew me in, then I read about them as much as I could.

Things I liked: Maps, Dinosaurs, Sports