Could the USA qualify to the WC out of Comnebol?

[Bruce S]

Originally posted by Rafael Hernandez
No freaking way is Jamaica as tough as Ecuador or Peru. It ain't that easy. Yes Concacaf is a tough place to play but I people here are talking as if CONMEBOL was a piece of cake. I think its as tough or tougher. Paraguay, Uruguay, Colombia and Ecuador are as good as Costa Rica or Honduras and playing at their home would be just as tough.

You always say the altitude affects you in Mexico City, well Colombia is as high and Quito and La Paz are higher. La Paz is near impossible to win there.
we have played Equador, Jamaica and Peru a lot and I would say they are of similar quality.Jamaica has excellent athletes and much of their team plays in England.

[Rafael Hernandez]

Ecuador and Peru have better leagues and better players. Peru has Solano and Pizarro and Ecuador went to the WC and didn't do that bad. Plus the fact that Quito is higher than Azteca could also factor in. Peru's new stadium can triple the office. I think they are better.

[Bruce S]

Originally posted by Rafael Hernandez
Ecuador and Peru have better leagues and better players. Peru has Solano and Pizarro and Ecuador went to the WC and didn't do that bad. Plus the fact that Quito is higher than Azteca could also factor in. Peru's new stadium can triple the office. I think they are better.
Jamaica beat Japan at WC 1998.When was the last time Peru or Equador beat a team that good on a stage like that.

[condor11]

you may ecuador a lot
but the last time you played peru was in 2000 gold cup at home u beat us 1-0 before that we played in the previous gold cup we beat u cant remember the score

interesting enough the usa always plays conmebol teams in the usa

brazil struggled
i would bet that on their first attempt at qualifying down here the usa wouldnt qualify

uruguay made the semis in1970
not 60 just 33

[condor11]

Originally posted by Bruce S
Jamaica beat Japan at WC 1998.When was the last time Peru or Equador beat a team that good on a stage like that.

we beat japan in the copa america 99

remember back in 98 the usa was dead last

[Rafael Hernandez]

Originally posted by Bruce S
Jamaica beat Japan at WC 1998.When was the last time Peru or Equador beat a team that good on a stage like that.

Equador beat Croatia in 2002 in the WC. And Croatia was a better team than Japan circa 1998.

[JuanArango82]

South American atmosphere are really different from friendly USA lots of colors atmosphere. Theres going to be real Football chants, confetti on the field. American players being threatend when they take a corner kicks. Overpack stadiums with hostile-craze fans.

A Che Guevara flag somewhere around. Facing full power squads instead of experimenting friendlies. Playing in places where former Brazilian coach Felipe Scolari called inhumane due to

Colombia - just plain good
Ecuador - pretty solid team
Peru - you might be able to steal one
Chile - same as Peru
Bolivia- Good Luck- Brazil got spank in here
Paraguay - depends how they are playing
Uruguay - tough ask Argentina
Venezuela might be able to steal one altough they haven't lost at home since early 2001

Brazil and Argentina

Now there is only 4 spots. One automatic belongs to Brazil for being champions. Argentina is going to qualified like it or not. That makes it two spots.

[Heist]

Originally posted by Bruce S
wonder why you say this? I think you underestimate the difficulty of the jungle in Costa Rica or Guatamala, or Azteca. By the way, which COMEBOL teams, except Arg or Brazil, have done as well AT THE WC as the USA in the last 12 years?

Are you forgetting France '98?
Paraguay also made it in '98 and '02. I don't think they were even at USA '94 though.

Still, I'd say it would be a dogfight to come in the top 4 out of CONMEBOL plus the US. We would be favored and likely to win against all but the big two at home, but I doubt we'd be taking a whole lot of points on the road. It really depends on Colombia and Uruguay. They are the two teams that we are basically on par with. The others I think we would finish higher than. We'd place between 3rd and 5th, with 3rd a bit unlikely and 4th a real possibility. If we get the same treatment from Refs as we do for games in Central America (and we likely would) that would make it tough.

[DanRod78]

US fans, keep these in mind

- Conmebol has won 9 of the 17 world cups (more than half)
- The best two soccer players in the world ever are from Conmebol (Pele & Maradona)
- Brazil has won the world cup 5 times and has gone to every single world cup.
- Usually more than 50% of the Conmebol teams are ranked in the top 50 countries of the world. It's been as high as 8 out of the 10 teams.
- Even though Venezuela was the worse team in Conmebol for decades. On the second round of the qualifiers to the 2002 World Cup, Venezuela was the 3rd best team.
- A lot of times, countries don't have all their best players in friendly games, Venezuela didn't have their 2 best players (Juan Arango, Pachuca, Mex. & Hector Gonzalez, Olimpo, Arg.)
- Other thing, the World Cup champion doesn't qualify automatically anymore.

I don't think that the US would make it to the World Cup in Conmebol.

[loloy_vinotinto]

Comparing Jamaica to Ecuador? or to Uruguay? sooo much arrongance... It's amazing.... you have no idea....
the Aztec, I'll give ya, but the rest? have you any idea the pressure you feel in Uruguay in the Centenario? or Santiago? Do you know how hard it is for their players knowing that if you make a mistake the crowd will turn on you? and I would loooove to see the US play in La Paz, and then say Bolivia is a piece of cake....
I won't even mention my country since some of you have allready made up your minds that an out-of-shape Venezuela squad playing a friendly as a visitor is just as beatable a if you played down here (never mind the 40 degree C heat that promted a sunburnt Romario to say that it's hell to play under those conditions... )
Have you ever, just maybe, come up with the possibility that Brasil and Argentina are that good in part because that they play such a high levelled quallification? Last time I checked Brasil and Argentina don't win 4-0 every game in the quallifying...
People, I understand patiotism... but COME ON!

My response to the question: Probably, but they would fight to the end...

PS: and for away games, the trip would be a looooong and tiring one from the us to any SA city... still think it would be easy?

[Viking64]

Originally posted by DanRod78
US fans, keep these in mind

- Conmebol has won 9 of the 17 world cups (more than half)
- The best two soccer players in the world ever are from Conmebol (Pele & Maradona)
- Brazil has won the world cup 5 times and has gone to every single world cup.
- Usually more than 50% of the Conmebol teams are ranked in the top 50 countries of the world. It's been as high as 8 out of the 10 teams.
- Even though Venezuela was the worse team in Conmebol for decades. On the second round of the qualifiers to the 2002 World Cup, Venezuela was the 3rd best team.
- A lot of times, countries don't have all their best players in friendly games, Venezuela didn't have their 2 best players (Juan Arango, Pachuca, Mex. & Hector Gonzalez, Olimpo, Arg.)
- Other thing, the World Cup champion doesn't qualify automatically anymore.

I don't think that the US would make it to the World Cup in Conmebol.
Take out one team, and south Americans have won 4 of 17. You have more places than everyone except Europe, I think (?). But CONMEBOL has ridden that horse until now, when FIFA finally woke up to the fact that CONMEBOL has two sharks and a lot of fish. Well the fish now have to do something besides swim next to the sharks to get in.

"The best two soccer players" is debatable. I think a lot of Europeans might disagree.

The rest is that friendlies don't matter. As for FIFA rankings, they are slanted towards the powers that are already there. You get points by beating and playing teams high in ranking. The US and many other countries have a hard time GETTING games against these teams. Last two times the US didn't play in Copa America, for instance.

It would be great if CONCACAF was broken up by giving the Caribbean their own slot, and then pulling North, South, and Central America into a region like Europe's qualifying. This would improve the US team a lot, by having to play these teams to qualify. And the qualifying games would be almost as much fun as the finals.

[Serie Zed]

People are underestimating how hard it would be. We'd have to finish 5th out of 11 teams to at least make the playoff v the 4th place Asian team (is that right?).

Assuming that Brazil and Argentina are 1-2 and assuming that Venezuela finish below us (if you don't assume that, forget qualifying)...we'd have to finish ahead of FOUR of these teams:

Chile
Uruguay
Bolivia
Peru
Paraguay
Colombia

We might be able to do it, and we might not. But no way is it a given.

[speedcake]

C'mon, great atmospheres don't make up THAT much for so-so teams.

Chile is a so-so team. Equador, while better, is still a so-so team. Venezuela, I'm sorry, is still crap. Columbia is off and on and can't be considered consistant. Peru is fair, but great? no. Uruguay are hacks and proved that at the cup, but they are among the better sides in S. America. And Argentina and Brazil are clearly the teams far ahead of the rest, despite Brazil's near SELF destruction in qualifying. Self, key word there.

I think both Mexico and the U.S. could qualify out of S. America. Like it or not the U.S. has simply become a better side than the majority of S. American teams.

[condor11]

athmospheres and location do make a difference
just ask brazil

u know the world champs that struggled to get points away from home and at home

of course the usa will have no such problems

[speedcake]

Originally posted by condor11
athmospheres and location do make a difference
just ask brazil

u know the world champs that struggled to get points away from home and at home

of course the usa will have no such problems

Brazil's troubles had alot less to do with the other teams then they did with internal problems and just plain bad play.

Give Brazil nearly all the credit for their terrible qualifying run, it was fluke, and likely won't be repeated.

No one is saying away games wouldn't be difficult. We are saying that despite that we still think the U.S., and IMO, Mexico, would stand a very, very good chance of qualifying. :)

[Rafael Hernandez]

Mexican teams have had to sweat it out in Libertadores every time. I ain't that easy to play in South America. It rough and the atmosphere does play its part ( crowds are a lot tougher than in US friendlies)

What has the US shown on the road? Beat Honduras in qualifyng? That ain't that great of a deal. Costa Rica won away and got a tie in the US in the prehex competition. They way they played will be exactly like Peru,Uruguay and Colombia will probably do. MLS teams almost never win away games.

Do I think Mexico and the US are as good as all the teams in South America (excluding Arg and Brazil) ?

Yes.

Do I think that Mexico or the US could qualify of Conmebol? Probably.

Will it be easy? no way.

The US never plays in hostile climates of South America. Mexico last time it did, couldn't cope with it (Colombia 1-0).

It ain't that easy as you people think.

[Rafael Hernandez]

Originally posted by speedcake
C'mon, great atmospheres don't make up THAT much for so-so teams.


Bolivia was pure crap and yet they had a huge run of being undefeated in La Paz. They crushed Brazil and Argentina had to get a miracle tie.

The team that endend the streak was Ecuador, not coincidently, the team the play in the second highest city.

[Hecho en Mexico]

I would think that the US would place 5-6th.
No way in hell! :D :p

[hamlet]

[Paraguay - we play 4/6/03, but beat 2-0 just before the 98 WC ]

We play 7/6/03 in Columbus' Crews. Before the 98 WC we played in St. Louis and tied 0-0

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I can see the improvement. I mean I follow it every inch of the way, I want to see the USA as a world Champ. The sooner the better. Just today I was looking down over Lake Shore Dr. in Chicago and I saw a bunch of kids playing some baseball and pretty much close to them some other kicking a soccer ball around. 30' later the baseball kids were gone and the other playing soccer were there for more than an hour later at a temp. below 40 degrees... for the love of the game. That is the way I want them to be. Later on I drove back home, and there are several soccer field along road by the lake. All of them but one had teams playing. The taste for the game is there. A little bit more of media exposure will expand the passion. I am already seeing some passion here, and that's good. It doesn't really matter if USA will or will not qualify against SA teams. What matters is getting better until the rest of the world shakes when they have to face the USA soccer team.

[sch2383]

To put it in terms most of my fellow Americans can understand, we are like a mid-major team in college basketball (Gonzaga if you will). We are pretty good and will give you a run for your money. We are getting better, so power teams don't want to play us because its a lose-lose situation for them. If they win, they are suppsoe to win and if they lose, they lost to a weak team (based on reputation, which will take 2 more strong World Cups to get rid of). I know its a strech in some parts, but I think its an apt analogy.