I want to get into Mexican club football...

[655321]

First off...this is not a "which team should I support" thread, although background info on clubs would be great. My problem is that I don't speak Spanish, despite living the majority of my life in Texas (well, Dallas white suburban neighborhoods) and now currently residing in the Mission District in San Francisco.

Are there any English language sites that discuss the league (results, news, history, etc) in some detail?

Does the league function like much of the rest of the world? (transfers, relegation/promotion, etc)

What are the major trophies? Is there something like the English FA Cup? What's the equivalent for the Champions League?

What clubs normally dominate? From being a general football fan I know the names of some clubs, and from living in a Latino-dominant neighborhood, I see lots of Chivas and Cruz Azul gear, as well as some Pumas. This would be like the ManUnited, Chelsea and Liverpool type clubs.

Who are the old stalwarts, the clubs that are always around, but rarely if ever win it all? This would be like the Tottenhams, Evertons, West Ham, etc, etc.

And, if relegation/promotion is in place...who are the newer, smaller clubs?

Anyways...any information is greatly appreciated. I love my neighborhood and I always see matches on when walking around. The supporters seem super passionate and I'd love to know more about the league.

Cheers.

[Chivin]

The biggest teams (in order):
1 Chivas
2 America
3 Cruz Azul
4 Pumas
The tournaments last 6 months (clausura- Apertura) 2 and 1/2 mexican teams go to a tournament called libertadores with other teams of South America (that's the equivalent of the UEFA cup), and another 2 teams go to the Sudamericana (champions league). there isanother cup played by teams of CONCACAF, but since is not as competitive, we don't give much importance to it.
For the local tournament, we have querter finals, semifinals, and finals, so, basicaly the team with the most points, don't have a significant advantage upon the rest of the qualified teams.
The teams that are always there, but almost never do anything, are: Atlante, Tigres, Veracruz, Atlas.
Lately, the team to beat, is Toluca.

[changoguapo]

The biggest teams (in order):
1 Chivas
2 America
3 Cruz Azul
4 Pumas
The tournaments last 6 months (clausura- Apertura) 2 and 1/2 mexican teams go to a tournament called libertadores with other teams of South America (that's the equivalent of the UEFA cup), and another 2 teams go to the Sudamericana (champions league). there isanother cup played by teams of CONCACAF, but since is not as competitive, we don't give much importance to it.
For the local tournament, we have querter finals, semifinals, and finals, so, basicaly the team with the most points, don't have a significant advantage upon the rest of the qualified teams.
The teams that are always there, but almost never do anything, are: Atlante, Tigres, Veracruz, Atlas.
Lately, the team to beat, is Toluca.


i think you got the Copa SudAmericana and the Copa Libertadores mixed up. the Libertadores is the more important one, (i.e Champions League equivelent) the SudAmericana is the lesser one (i.e. UEFA Cup) everything else is pretty much accurate

[Rebaño_Sagrado]

And, if relegation/promotion is in place...who are the newer, smaller clubs?

There is one team promoted and demoted per year. There is 2 tournaments concluding with a playoff champion per season, one in the fall, one in the spring; for both first and second divisions.

For first division, relegation is determined by who has the lowest percentage of points per game over the last 3 seasons. The team with the lowest percentage gets demoted. Only one team is demoted per season.

For second division. If the same team wins both playoffs it automatically wins promotion. If its two different winners. Then they meet in a home/away series to determine who gets promoted.

First division is called Primera division. The Mexican second division is called Primera "A".

Espn lists the standings and latest scores although not much else.
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/tables?league=mex.1&cc=5901


As far as a Champions League type tourney. There is the Concacaf Champions cup (http://www.concacaf.com/competitions/champscup/) for all Concacaf teams. Mexican teams are also invited to Conmebol's Copa Libertadores (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copa_Libertadores_de_América) Tournament and Copa Sudamericana (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copa_Sudamericana).

HTH.:)

[Chivin]

i think you got the Copa SudAmericana and the Copa Libertadores mixed up. the Libertadores is the more important one, (i.e Champions League equivelent) the SudAmericana is the lesser one (i.e. UEFA Cup) everything else is pretty much accurate
nop, at least in the way they classify.

[Panfilo]

The biggest teams (in order):
1 America
2 Chivas


Fixed post.


By the way 655321 America is the most hated team in Mexico.

Why?

Jealousy

[Chivin]

Fixed post.


By the way 655321 America is the most hated team in Mexico.

Why?
because we fvking cheat!!!!

fixed!!!!!

[Disco Dale]

Sorry, a shameless advert for our blog:- http://pumas-blog.blogspot.com/
We are attempting to get at least one (often more) match report up for each game, we have one so far for each this season (plus additional reports in the comments), plus league standings etc.

While is is 90% about Pumas, the team we follow, we also have round ups on what else is happening in Mexican football, and regularly stick up profiles of key Pumas players.

If you start right at the beginning ("Introduction to Season") and read through we have also tried to explain some of the more arcane aspects of Mexican football naturally within the reports, to help it all make sense.

We are British people living in Mexico, so we know football, and the whole thing is, of course, in English, and any questions put up in the comments WILL be answered...

Hope this isn't too out of order, but from experience english language stuff about Mexican football can be hard to find, so I hope its relevance outweighs my shamlessness.

[El Pipiripau]

The tournaments last 6 months (clausura- Apertura) 2 and 1/2 mexican teams go to a tournament called libertadores with other teams of South America (that's the equivalent of the UEFA cup), and another 2 teams go to the Sudamericana (champions league).
Can you explain to me how the Mexican teams that participate in Libertadores and Sudamerica qualify...that always confuses me.

[Disco Dale]

nop, at least in the way they classify.
I am surprised; I would have thought that the Libertadores was still the most prestigious?

Am I correct in thinking that now the same club can qualify for both the South American tournaments (ONLY South American teams, not Mexican teams) in the same year? This blurs the comparison further.

As for the CONCACAF cup, this is the same as the Champions League; the only slight difference being that round one is ...er.... also the quarter-final. Because it is a relatively weak federation there is a kind of expectation of a Mexican team winning it: - in fact if the Mexican team in it does not win it is seen as a big failure. The winner goes to the World Club Championships, as does the winner of the Libertadores (only - making it more similar to the European Cup/Champions League than the UEFA Cup, surely?)

[Disco Dale]

Can you explain to me how the Mexican teams that participate in Libertadores and Sudamerica qualify...that always confuses me.
From FEMEXFUT:-

"Rumbo a la Libertadores 2007

Con este encuentro [America v Toluca], se dio por iniciada la participación de los equipos mexicanos rumbo a la edición 2007 de la Copa Toyota Libertadores de América.

Los dos restantes conjuntos mexicanos que participarán en el certamen internacional, saldrán del Torneo Interliga 2007 que se realizará en enero del próximo año en los Estados Unidos.

Los equipos que buscarán ser México Dos y México Tres, son aquellos que terminaron mejor ubicados en la Clasificación General del Campeonato 2005-2006:

1.- Cruz Azul
2.- Pachuca (No participará por jugar la Copa de Campeones de la Concacaf, por lo que entra el equipo #9)
3.- América
4.- Toluca (No participa en Interliga por ser México Uno, por lo que entra el equipo #10)
5.- Monterrey
6.- Jaguares
7.- Necaxa
8.- Tecos
9.- Tigres
10.- Monarcas
11.- Atlante

Toluca como México Uno, ya tiene un lugar directo en Copa Libertadores, y por ende, no participará en Interliga, su lugar será tomado por Monarcas.

En caso de que algún equipo de los arriba enlistados gane el Torneo Apertura 2006, tendrá que jugar la Copa de Campeones de la Concacaf, no pudiendo participar en Interliga 2007, por lo que su lugar será tomado por Atlante."

[changoguapo]

nop, at least in the way they classify.

who is they? the Conmebol?
Ive always heard/known the Libertadores to be the top club champion for South America. But if you think about it, the Libertadores Champion is going to the World Cup of Clubs not the CopaSudAmericana champion. Just by that alone means that the Libertadores is higher than Copa SA!

[LMvCP]

Are there any English language sites that discuss the league (results, news, history, etc) in some detail?

no luck with an English site. However, mediotiempo.com is a very easy site to navigate and just knowing basic you can manage to read th standings

Does the league function like much of the rest of the world? (transfers, relegation/promotion, etc)

Transfer.

Unfortunately NO. Players in the Mexican wake up later in their careers when it is too late. For the most part, Clubs own their service sheet (carta) and can trade a player to a team as they wish.

We also have a draft of some sort. At the end of season (their are 2 tournaments played in each season), the league has a draft. Players that are left unsigned enter the draft. They are categorized by libre (free agent), prestamo (on loan), and some other (i forget, its mostly for players that play in the lower divisions).

Within the next 10 years, i see the MFL having serious problems. More and more young players are realizing that they do not control their careers and because of it I see following--a players union forming, congress intervening due to labor rights, the local sports agent business booming, and a salary cap.

What are the major trophies?

Mexican First division. They are 2 tournaments disputed in a season. Apertura (Opening) starts in Aug and ends in Dec. Clausura (Closing) starts in Jan and ends in May. The prize money for each title is the most out of any competition played in the Americas (be it Argentine 1st division or even Copa Libertadores (South American Champions League). So you get the idea how important league play is in Mexico.

The winners of each tournament play a type of Super Cup called Campeon de Campeones (Champion of Champions Cup). The cup came back to life after almost 10 years being defunct.

Is there something like the English FA Cup?

Unfortunately, no Latin American FA has the complexity and organization of the FA. Many Latin American FA's have a football pyramid (1st division, 2nd division, 3rd division, regional, loca, grass roots) but only in name. We dont have the fan support, the resources, nor the purchasing power to really have a true 2nd division, much less a 3rd division.

In Mexico's case, we have never had an FA Cup. However, we have had the equivalent of the League Cup (well, almost).

Mexico had a Cup tournament since back in 1907 call the Tower Cup. It changed names a couple times (Elimination Cup, Presidential Cup) and then finally was called Copa Mexico (Mexico Cup) in 1933. This cups only included league members. At the time, there was only one division.

In 1950, when Mexico's 2nd division was introduced, Mexico's 2nd division had its own Cup. In 1968 when Mexico's 3rd division was formed, they participated in their own Cup. Only on 2 occasions were 2nd division clubs allowed to participate in Copa Mexico (1956/57 and 1963-63).

In 1994 when the second division (Segunda Division) was changed to Primera A, teams from the new 2nd division were allowed to participate. Unforteunately, Copa Mexico came to an abrupt end in following the 96 season.

In its heyday, Copa Mexico was a huge deal. In fact, Mexico's first night game (1940s) was a Copa Mexico match. The Mexican FA realized that they could make money on the weekdays playing such a tournament. And because of these games, new rail were added going to stadiums. Soon after Copa Mexico, another cup was introduced--Campeon de Campeones. This was a match between the League winner and Cup winner. This is the cup that I mentioned earlier (Champion of CHampions), but the format has changed a bit.

One thing that killed the Cup competition in Mexico is that the LEAGUE implemented a playoff format in 1970. So, the league had a regular season and a knock out tournament to determine the league champion.

What's the equivalent for the Champions League?

Nothing :D Mexico did not have competition at the league level for many years and many times did not take the areas confederation tournaments serious. For many years, they wanted to play against the best South American teams and finally in 1998, they were allowed to play the South American version of the Champions League--Copa Libertadores

What clubs normally dominate?

Since the professional era began in 1943, only 2 teams have never seen a day in the 2nd division--AMERICA AND GUADALJARA (CHIVAS). Out of the 10 original members, the only ones that are still around are Atlas, Veracruz, and Atlante. However, those 3 teams have seen the lower divisions at one point or another and in some cases numerous time.

Cruz Azul and UNAM (Pumas) were 2nd division teams that were promoted in the 60s and have not looked back and have been highly successful.

seeing that a club can lead the standings and crash in the playoffs, the league standings show which teams have usually been contenders.. so basing my answer on that... the past 30-40 years, teams like America, Cruz Azul, Chivas, UNAM have been the most successful.

Toluca and Pachuca are 2 teams that found success spurts but have not been as consistant.

Who are the old stalwarts, the clubs that are always around, but rarely if ever win it all? This would be like the Tottenhams, Evertons, West Ham, etc, etc.

Without a doubt---Atlas, Veracruz, Atlante, @ Necaxa. Very few titles between them. Veracruz and Atlas have gone half a decade without winning a league title

Interesting to note, since joining the 1st division or being promoted to the 1st division the following teams have been able to maintain themselves in the top flight

America
Guadalajara
UNAM (pumas)
Toluca
Cruz Azul
Santos Laguna
UAG (tecos)

And, if relegation/promotion is in place...who are the newer, smaller clubs?

relegation is a sore and tricky subject in Mexico. Mexico can support a strong 18-20 team first division. However, we cant support a strong second division (Primera A) for a number of reasons (purchasing power of the fan, fans are glory hunters, do not have the Euro sporting culture of supporting the local team, etc)...

However... its usually the same teams that move up and down between the 1st and 2nd (Pachuca, Atlas, Atlante, Leon, UANL (tigres), San Luis, Irapuato, Veracruz)

[655321]

This is great stuff. Thanks for the info everyone. I'll do some more research this weekend and try to catch a few matches.

If there are any big ones coming up, let me know.

[Disco Dale]

Transfer.

Within the next 10 years, i see the MFL having serious problems. More and more young players are realizing that they do not control their careers and because of it I see following--a players union forming, congress intervening due to labor rights, the local sports agent business booming, and a salary cap.


I think I am right in saying that generally FIFA hate the draft system, and would certainly not allow a member FA to introduce it, so I guess the Mexican clubs will find pressure from all sides to do away with it.

very interesting post all round... interested in the Cup history, another reason why I dislike the "league" title to be decided on play-offs, not only is it a different discipline, but it undermines a decent proper knock-out cup competition. Its a shame it can't really work, seeing Inter Playa beating America would be great fun!

[John Jagou]

I too am in favor of resurrecting the copa mexico. Perhaps there is a corralary between Mexico performaing poorly in knouckout tournaments internationally and not playing one on an annual basis at home.

[presicci]

I think the Mexican tournament should change back to a year long season.
I think that would help the league level, more young players would be able to be brought up, and coaches would'nt be fired every two weeks. Plus, without the playoff format, the Copa Mexico could be ressurrected.
I wouldn't put Tecos and Santos as some of the most consistent teams, specially now when Santos is about to descend to primera "A".
The best games coming up this weekend would be Atlas(2)-Toluca(1) on Saturday and America(4)_Monterrey(9) on Sunday. Monterrey and Atlas are 2 of the teams that are always there but never win but Atlas is well-known for their offensive, fun-to-watch playing style and Monterrey has been playing good recently and have a very good team. Toluca has been the most dominant team in recent years winning the 98, 99, 2000, 2002 and 2005 championships. And as you already now America (along with Chivas) is one of the most followed teams in Mexico. The difference between the two is that Chivas only plays with mexican players while America isn't afraid to spend money on the best foreign players they can find.

[Lyrical S.]

This is great stuff. Thanks for the info everyone. I'll do some more research this weekend and try to catch a few matches.

If there are any big ones coming up, let me know.
this weekend Toluca @ Atlas

next weekend 9/30 Club America @ Club Deportivo Gudalajara ........(equivalent to Arsenal vs. Manchester United or Real Madrid vs. Barcelona.... less talk= the biggest rivalrie in Mexican League History!)

[Pan_Blanco]

This is a great thread as I'm in the same boat as 655321 and was planning on posting the exact same thing. I was rooting for Mexico in the World Cup and really enjoyed watching the games. I live in Houston so I see plenty of jerseys but the information is rather limited.

In trying to figure out which team I'd align myself, I actually followed Sanchez to Chivas. I respect what he went through with his dad passing away right before the World Cup and then being able to go to Germany and play the way he did.

I hope you guys don't mind a gringo on the board!

[Lyrical S.]

In trying to figure out which team I'd align myself
America:D lol j/k just watch the games and you pick your favorite the one you like too watch the most after a certain time! most games are on Azteca America and Univision Networks (TeleFutura,Galavision) some games on FoxSports En Espanol.