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DeathLeprechaun
19 Sep 2006, 08:08 PM
I have a question about a situation during my high school game today. So, an opponent receives the ball at about half. I'm covering him. There are 3 of my teammates behind us in my half, as well as a few of the opposing team.

The receiver of the ball starts running towards our net and I'm running right beside him. We're not pushing or anything. However, I'm the only player keeping up with him therefore making me the last man, I think? The goalie was still in our net so I don't know if that counts.

He was gaining speed and was very fast, so I had little chance of actually getting the ball. If I had blatantly tripped him, pushed him, or slide tackled from behind, would that have been a red card? I'm not sure if I was the last man back because I don't know if the goalie counts.

In reality, I stayed next to him the whole time unable to really catch up. Our goalie dove out and he managed to get a shot off, but somehow it hit the crossbar and never went in. Even if it a blatant foul wouldn't have been a red card, I still probably couldn't have done it because I think it's ridiculously low to pull a move like that...

ManiacalClown
19 Sep 2006, 08:57 PM
It's a YHTBT situation, but it's likely based on your description that you could have committed a sending off offense had you fouled. The goalkeeper does not necessarily constitute the commonly referred to "last man" so it is possible to commit a professional foul, that is deny an obvious goal scoring opportunity by foul punishable by free kick, with the keeper still left to beat (with the ensuing shot or otherwise). Again, however, it is impossible to say for sure what would have happened in your case because it's a judgement call that requires seeing the incident and is influenced by a number of variables such as distance to the goal and the direction that the player is moving.

Ref Flunkie
19 Sep 2006, 09:54 PM
It sounds like you were the last man back (keeper does not count). It would not have mattered how "bad" the foul was, any foul that prevents an obvious goal scoring opportunity is punishable by a RC. You were probably wise not to foul him....but I likely would have :).

KCbus
19 Sep 2006, 10:23 PM
Also... don't get caught up in "last man" debates.

All that matters is, was it an obvious goal-scoring opportunity? Who is the "last man" is obviously a part of that thinking, but it is certainly possible to have an extra defender or two around and still have a red-card worthy offense. It's less likely, but very possible.

Put it this way: If in your own head, you were thinking at the time, "Uh-oh, this guy's got a great chance to score", there's a pretty overwhelming likelihood that a foul will result in your number being magic-marker-ed onto red plastic.

Gary V
20 Sep 2006, 11:49 AM
It sounds like you were the last man back (keeper does not count). The keeper DOES count - it's the guy doing the fouling that doesn't count. That was documented in the "4 D's" position paper, and appears in Advice to Referees 12.37(b):not more than one defender between the foul and the goal, not counting the defender who committed the foul
Defender meaning opponent, of course - it doesn't matter what position the opponent was playing. USSF only used the word defender so it fit the 4 D's pattern.

BC_Ref
20 Sep 2006, 01:18 PM
The keeper DOES count - it's the guy doing the fouling that doesn't count. That was documented in the "4 D's" position paper, and appears in Advice to Referees 12.37(b):
Defender meaning opponent, of course - it doesn't matter what position the opponent was playing. USSF only used the word defender so it fit the 4 D's pattern.

You have to careful about the keeper since it is an "obvious goal scoring opportunity", not merely denying a goal. Which translates to the ability to make a reasonable shot on goal. So often the keeper gets ignored in the analysis since they often do not prevent the opportunity, just the goal itself. It really depends on the keeper and what they are doing. If they are acting as a defender (keeper charged out - a sweeper keeper - and is close to the play when the attacker is fouled), then no DOGSO might exist. If they acting as a keeper (simply between the attacker and the goal), then they are in no position to deny an opportunity to shoot.

As others pointed out, each situation is different and you need to look at all of the factors. I'll agree that simply having other defenders behind you doesn't necessarily mean that no DOGSO exists. If the other defender is on the other side of the field, they aren't in any position to deny anything.

jacoismyhero
20 Sep 2006, 10:49 PM
One thing that most players, and unfortunately a lot of referees, don't know is the four D's to dictate a DOGSO red card offense.

Player's Distance to the ball.
Player's Distance to the goal.
Player's Direction.
Number of Defenders.

I think that's right, any corrections?

But basically, if the ball is playable, he's heading directly towards the goal, and is currently at a reasonable distance, and there are no players aside from the goalkeeper between him and the goal, you've got a DOGSO.