What exactly IS the LLC?

[Roush]

I'm not saying you want it as some sort of glory hound. I know your intentions and the rest in the group are good. I'm saying you took on this responsibility by joining the LLC in the first place. If I have to go to you to solicit funds from the Cauldron for an idea I have, and you guys say no - who is the "leadership" in that situation?

Jeff made an important point that I wanted to split out and discuss in a different thread.

Although it's a hypothetical question, I know exactly why you asked this question. I think the feedback specific to the situation is important as to defining what the LLC does and is intended to do.

My understanding on why we pushed back on the first non-tailgate proposal that came to the LLC because it wasn't fully fleshed out. If there is a consensus on BigSoccer of a clear, well thought out idea that benefits "The Cauldron" as a whole, I (although I can't and won't speak for the other six members of the LLC) have no problem writing a check for it.

My thoughts on the separation between Wings Of A Sparrow, LLC and "The Cauldron" is that the LLC exists only to serve the needs of the section. Taking a leadership role within the section creates - in my mind - an uncomfortable conflict of interest. The structure as it exists now creates a check on any one person making a decision on behalf of the section.




However, as we grow as a group, I do realize that there is a need for a small group of leaders to guide the section. Despite his interpretation, I have nothing against Ben as a leader. He stepped up and got shit done when nobody else was willing or able to step up. He helped us grow. But we have reached - in my mind - a tipping point where one person can't possibly do everything that is necessary to continue to grow the section. At least not in the best possible manner.



I'm of the opinion that the LLC and the leadership group of the Cauldron should be separate entities. I would be happy to explain why in a general meeting of the Cauldron so that there's a little more order than in this forum. I want everyone's voice to be heard - even those that don't post on BigSoccer. After all, we're all here to support the Wizards.

[Roush]

I just wanted to add something that I find incredibly ironic.

When I look back on the way this whole LLC process has evolved, I have to laugh. Mark Naster and I have had several discussions about things being a case of "Ready, SHOOT, Aim."

Admittedly, this is one of those times. I can understand the misgivings of everyone out there. I understand that there are some of you who see us as a "shadow government" or a cadre of self-appointed leaders trying to usurp power.

We're not.

Use this thread to prove it. Ask us questions in the open and you'll get open answers. I'm volunteeering myself and I'm asking all of the other members of the LLC to volunteer themselves.

Let's get back to the business at hand here...

Wizards 'Til I Die....

[the_cyclones]

yep, ask away.


btw - the Wings Of A Sparrow, LLC is made up of

person - big soccer name

*listed in no particular order*

George Shook - the_cyclones
George Hanson - parlorcars
Ben Cunningham - BenC1357
Chris Meier - Helghallen
John Roushkolb - Roush
Stu Bentley - stubentley
Mike Kuhn - Kuhnscoot

[Unorthodox Yank]

If the LLC exists only as a means to cover our asses legally in terms of individual losses etc, then why does any of this even matter?

By that, what I mean is: why not just make the LLC completely separate from any day-to-day decision making as far as the Cauldron is concerned? Then, it really wouldn't matter who's in on the LLC and who isn't, and we can focus on re-organizing how the cauldron leadership is organized.

[the_cyclones]

If the LLC exists only as a means to cover our asses legally in terms of individual losses etc, then why does any of this even matter?

By that, what I mean is: why not just make the LLC completely separate from any day-to-day decision making as far as the Cauldron is concerned? Then, it really wouldn't matter who's in on the LLC and who isn't, and we can focus on re-organizing how the cauldron leadership is organized.

That's exactly what we intended it to be.

[Merlin172]

Egos seem to get in the way of a lot of good ideas and intentions though...

[Unorthodox Yank]

That's exactly what we intended it to be.

So, then what's all the hooplah about?

We have an LLC. Sweet. Moving on.

What's going on with the CAULDRON? Through all the in-fighting that's been going on, I'm not sure if Ben, Mike, John, or somebody else is in a leadership position anymore.

Hell, if I went to school in KC, I'd volunteer for it in a heartbeat. That's how much I really just want all this political bullcrap to end. This is a new and exciting era for our team, and I don't like that we're starting it off bickering amongst ourselves over something that's not that big of a deal.

[StuBentley]

Egos seem to get in the way of a lot of good ideas and intentions though...

Ding, ding, ding....we have our winner! And a year's supply of Rice A Roni the San Francisco treat goes to Chad! :)

[StuBentley]

OK, now that I tried to calm down with a little joke, I'll toss my two cents in here. When the LLC was formed it was sold to me as a legal protection mechanism for Cauldron activities. OK, fine. So, as Alex said - great, now what? My own take on this is as long as we try to exist as the "unorganized organization" we leave ourselves wide open to whoever decides to step up and take over. Not really the ideal form of government. Yes, I know there were issues back when we were dues paying Mystics, but I think that being organized could have its advantages...voting leadership in and out for example. But then even this decision should be left to the group as a whole also. I would LOVE to see a meeting of every person in the Cauldron who has a desire to be involved and/or be heard. Not sure exactly where we would have a meeting of this size just yet, but I'm sure we could figure something out. At this point, I feel that there is a need to have a representative leadership for our group. Not a leadership who just decides they are in charge, but one voted in by the people of the Cauldron. Yeah, and this coming from your local anarchist...further proof that I'm getting old. :)

[the_cyclones]

What's going on with the CAULDRON? Through all the in-fighting that's been going on, I'm not sure if Ben, Mike, John, or somebody else is in a leadership position anymore.

Hell, if I went to school in KC, I'd volunteer for it in a heartbeat. That's how much I really just want all this political bullcrap to end. This is a new and exciting era for our team, and I don't like that we're starting it off bickering amongst ourselves over something that's not that big of a deal.

That's what I think we need to work on from this point forward.

[kopiteinkc]

I think we need to have a poll as to whether to have a meeting about a meeting about a poll.

[Merlin172]

I think we need to have a poll as to whether to have a meeting about a meeting about a poll.

seconded. Now we just need to have somebody make a motion to have a poll as to whether to have a meeting about a meeting about a poll. And once the motion is made we'll have to do a quick auditory poll to see whether they "ayes" have carried the motion to have a poll as to whether to have a meeting about a meeting about a poll. If the "nays" have it, well then we're right back to square one.
At which point...

:D

[StuBentley]

seconded. Now we just need to have somebody make a motion to have a poll as to whether to have a meeting about a meeting about a poll. And once the motion is made we'll have to do a quick auditory poll to see whether they "ayes" have carried the motion to have a poll as to whether to have a meeting about a meeting about a poll. If the "nays" have it, well then we're right back to square one.
At which point...

:D

Oh come on Chad...you're always looking for someone to make a motion on your poll. :)

[BBBulldog]

I have a question if you don't mind, what do you need LLC for? Like a practical real world example that foreigner like me can understand :D

[Roush]

I have a question if you don't mind, what do you need LLC for? Like a practical real world example that foreigner like me can understand :D


Say for example, a person got sick because of the food you served them at the tailgate. If you were a private individual, that person could sue you directly for your assets. In our case, since the LLC provides the food, the person can only sue the LLC, which has limited assets.

[KCBearcat]

Say for example, a person got sick because of the food you served them at the tailgate. If you were a private individual, that person could sue you directly for your assets. In our case, since the LLC provides the food, the person can only sue the LLC, which has limited assets.
In other words, it's so we can cover our asses... :)

[Going Mobile]

you guys have dues and meeting ? WOW you're fan club not a corporation. Sounds like you're making going to a game having a few beears and tailgating more like going to the office and having to deal with the BS there. If you drink enough alcohol adn eat some bad food the alcohol will kill whatever ails the food at worst you get the runs big deal.

What brought this on? did someone try to sue the group. How big is the group if I may ask

[ojsgillt]

Just a few questions to clarify to those of us who are less in the know.

Does the LLC give out money to improve the cauldron or the tailgates?

[Merlin172]

What brought this on? did someone try to sue the group. How big is the group if I may ask


It's a good question. I too have questioned the need for an LLC. As a (somewhat) outside observer, I still have a lot of questions about why the LLC was actually created.

[Roush]

Regardless of the fact that he's a troll, I'll answer the questions and clear up the misconceptions

you guys have dues and meeting ?

Dues: no. Meetings: Yes, like any corporation.


WOW you're a fan club not a corporation.

There is (okay, was intended to be) a clear line between the supporters group and Wings Of A Sparrow, LLC. So, no, we are a corporation. We are also members of the supporters group.


What brought this on? did someone try to sue the group.

A desire to grow our group and its activities - i.e. road trips, tailgates, website and recruitment. There hasn't been a lawsuit, but it was the consensus of those who have volunteered their time and services that it was better (and cheaper) in the long run to take a safe approach.


How big is the group if I may ask

The LLC is seven members, comprised currently of the initial volunteers.

The Cauldron hovers between 50 and 100 or so people.